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Thievery buttons for other classes

Hello does anybody know how to add working search for traps, stealth, and thievery interface buttons to other classes? I know how to edit backstab and thiefscl and thiefskl 2.da files to give other class backstab progression and thief points at level up but I don/t know how to add respective buttons to interface for that particular hero. Keyboard hotkeys doesn't work.

Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    Can't generally be done if the class can't use the skill. Even if you could hack the button into the UI, it wouldn't do anything AFAIK.

    Set Traps is an exception. Any class can use the Set Traps ability.

  • WatchmakerWatchmaker Member Posts: 20
    So there is no file that says for example that certain class have mage book and can scribe spells or have access to divine magic, thieving skills etc? If I would like to create for example a single class cleric that can hide in shadows there is no way to do that? Or single class mage thief hybrid with access to arcane spells and fully functional mage book? How about adding divine spell progression for any other single class...

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    Nope. The only way to do those things would be (in order):
    - a cleric/thief or cleric/ranger kit
    - a mage/thief kit
    - a paladin, ranger, or multiclass cleric kit

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    edited October 2017
    A lot of this stuff would be more possible if Beamdog would give us a Script Action to set the OriginalClass bits at offset 0x10 of .CRE files... we already have a trigger to detect this, but no action to set it.

    It would enable stuff like:
    - Start playing a special cleric kit.
    - At level 5 or whatever, you get converted into a cleric/thief.
    - But you are not a multiclass, you are a cleric 5/thief 2.
    - Your thief abilities could be set to whatever value you like (like, MS/HiS 25%, everything else zero)
    - You would keep advancing as a cleric.
    - At each level you could keep adjusting the thief skills.

    Something like that. It wouldn't be what you're asking about, but it would be a lot closer. And it would only take one little extra script action - no major changes to the game executable! But only Beamdog could make it possible, and in ~4 years of asking, they never have... :(

    Watchmaker
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited October 2017
    Well, he could also just implement many of those things as abilities from the specials bar. Also, as far as switching to another class is concerned, it's been discussed here. It's possible with the Change AI Type opcode to another class. Use duration 2, not 9, because 9 is a fake change, although it does give you another class' interface. 2 is a real change, multiclass combinations are included.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    edited October 2017
    chimeric said:

    Well, he could also just implement many of those things as abilities from the specials bar.

    Don't think so. Set Traps works... the rest won't, at least not without hackery involving invisible helper creatures. Which I have no patience for. Why do that to simulate a mage/thief, when you can just be a mage/thief?
    chimeric said:

    Also, as far as switching to another class is concerned, it's been discussed here. It's possible with the Change AI Type opcode to another class. Use duration 2, not 9, because 9 is a fake change, although it does give you another class' interface. 2 is a real change, multiclass combinations are included.

    Nope. Best you can do with the opcode or the ChangeClass action is become multiclassed. Which, again, to achieve that you could just play a multiclass, so that's useless. There's no way to become dual-classed (without actually dual-classing).

  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    What are you talking about? 72 works fine for switching to a single or a multi. Not dual, but that's because it's not a class combination, it's a career change. With a multiclass from a kit he would have to do something about the kit first, because an illusionist switching to fighter/mage becomes a fighter/illusionist. So it's probably possible to have archer/clerics and other combinations, if the kit is kept. And just because you don't "have patience" for invisible minions doesn't mean others shouldn't use that great resource. Then again, you are the last person to ask for "what is possible." Your default answer is, nothing.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    edited October 2017
    chimeric said:

    What are you talking about? 72 works fine for switching to a single or a multi. Not dual,

    What am I talking about? I said exactly what you just said. It works for single or multi but not dual.
    chimeric said:

    but that's because it's not a class combination, it's a career change.

    If it were possible, it would be a way to simulate single-class kits with ability hard-coded for use by other classes.
    chimeric said:

    And just because you don't "have patience" for invisible minions doesn't mean others shouldn't use that great resource.

    Of course people should use it. I use them. I think I might actually be the one who pointed you in their direction. But different tasks call for different tools... using .bcs scripts for everything you want to mod is like trying to build a house when all you know how to use is a hammer. Can you build a house with just a hammer? Sure. But that will be one rickety house.
    chimeric said:

    Then again, you are the last person to ask for "what is possible." Your default answer is, nothing.

    - I have made class combos not allowed by the engine usable by players (to a greater or lesser degree of fidelity), after a decade of reading people request such things and being told it's impossible.
    - I've made the first working system to add new and different stat bonuses, after a decade of reading people request such a thing and being told it's impossible.
    - I've changed the way weapon styles work, well beyond the hard-coded limits, after a decade of reading people request such a thing and being told it's impossible.
    - I've added a 3E-style bard song system and a 3E-style feat system, and a psionics system.
    - Divine spheres, at-will cantrips, innate metamagic, revised proficiencies, yadda yadda, my mods push the boundaries of what you can do in this engine way more than most. My work puts the lie to your suggestion that I'm a pessimist.

    If you know better, perhaps you might try to be helpful a and actually answer the man's question rather than attacking others:

    If I would like to create for example a single class cleric that can hide in shadows there is no way to do that? Or single class mage thief hybrid with access to arcane spells and fully functional mage book? How about adding divine spell progression for any other single class...

    Do you know of a way to do these things?

    Can you show me an actual working mod that allows, say, a cleric to hide in shadows? Lots of people would be excited for that... if you could just script it, why hasn't it been done?

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    Contemplative_HamsterThacoBellArctodus
  • WatchmakerWatchmaker Member Posts: 20
    For me role playing was always about bending the rules. About those little things, skills, abilities beyond what class has to offer. The reason why original npc like Minsc are so awesome is because they have things like berserker rage for ranger tied with personality. After many years we can turn off almost any restriction... we have great saves editors, we can mod who can and who can not multi-class and dual-class. It is possible to give any class or class combination to any race and alignment. It is even possible to add three kits to triple class characters... Still if I want to role play as evil cleric of some shadow god that grants them ability to stay hidden from the eyes of other people I can't... I have to play cleric/thief with backstabs, pickpocketing double xp requirements etc...

    Skatan
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,824

    Set Traps works... the rest won't, at least not without hackery involving invisible helper creatures. Which I have no patience for. Why do that to simulate a mage/thief, when you can just be a mage/thief?

    "Call Faerie Servant/Call Trickster Spirit = Summons an invisible creature capable of opening locked objects for you. Scriverspells Inc take no responsible for any unforeseen consequences, changelinged children, or random shenanigans performed while in your service."

    xD

    Contemplative_Hamster
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163


    If I would like to create for example a single class cleric that can hide in shadows there is no way to do that? Or single class mage thief hybrid with access to arcane spells and fully functional mage book? How about adding divine spell progression for any other single class...

    Do you know of a way to do these things?
    Sure. It's just not interesting for me. But the general direction is clear. To make a cleric who could hide in shadows, for example, one would probably first try to use effect 72 at duration 9, for a simulated change. As far as I've been able to tell, the class abilities remain, but characters made into thieves can also backstab and hide, if given skill points. I've had Kagain backstab people, in his full fighter's gear too, and I've made Edwin turn undead. If that variant proves too problem-ridden, one would go for a spell for the special ability bar. The spell would summon a minion to run a Stealth check for the cleric and apply an artificial invisibility or make him Hide. It's more difficult to award Stealth points on level-up, it might have to be done through dialogue or perhaps several instances of a point-giving spell granted. One could raise the caster's Move Silently by 5%, another Hide in Shadows by 5%, and each would remove one instance of the other kind from memory. Then the player would get to pick and choose. I'm not saying it would not be time-consuming or the result would be elegant, but there is nothing at all impossible about it. I'm sure you have the imagination to extend this to the other cases.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466

    After many years we can turn off almost any restriction... we have great saves editors, we can mod who can and who can not multi-class and dual-class. It is possible to give any class or class combination to any race and alignment.

    That stuff is not hard-coded.

    Still if I want to role play as evil cleric of some shadow god that grants them ability to stay hidden from the eyes of other people I can't... I have to play cleric/thief with backstabs, pickpocketing double xp requirements etc...

    That stuff is hard-coded. That's the difference.

    Of course, Beamdog has made thieves nicely moddable, so you could make a cleric/thief with no pick pockets and no open locks and no find/remove traps and no detect illusion and no backstab, and wife to a +100% XP bonus to level up faster. And give it a cool kit name.

    My point was, if you want to brute-force this into a single-class cleric for no reason other than you arbitrarily want it to be a single-class cleric, then it will be difficult and you'll have to do everything with little scripted invisible helpers who will block doorways and generally not work that well.

    But if you work with the engine, you can simulate a lot. I have a ranger/mage kit, which technically is not a ranger at all. But if it says ranger, and it plays like a ranger, then who cares?

    Watchmaker
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