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For those still interested in polls

ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
edited November 2012 in Off-Topic
Personally, I found most of the polls on this site really interesting and amusing to read and respond to. From the posts I have read I think there are many other people who feel the same way.

It was upsetting to create polls and have them be attacked by some people who seem to feel compelled to prevent discussions they disagree with.

I have created a blog where I posted the two polls that I created, which pertain to the level cap and Kivan's sexuality. Anyone who is interested in participating in these polls and/or discussing things in a rational manner is welcome to do so. If you aren't interested in the polls and only want to flame, please do so elsewhere.

Right now I have only posted the two polls I made myself, but will post others too if their authors are interested.

http://game-opinions.blogspot.com/?view=classic

Edit: Also, both polls are expanded somewhat based on the feedback I received when I posted them here. I can have up to 20 options there instead of 10, so it was possible to be more exact in the choices.

[Deleted User]MedullaOblongataMungri
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Comments

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    MedullaOblongataLadyEibhilinRhett
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    It was more that a lot of the polls were redundant - such as is NPC X gay (repeat for 36 different NPCs) and so were spamming the board, rather than a problem with the discussions themselves

    sandmanCCL
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Like 80% of the polls are redundant. They'd all been done before.

    Do some forum searching before making a new poll. I guarantee you find it's something that's already happened.

    Mortianna
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited November 2012
    I killed the Kivan sexuality poll because those were starting to become annoying.

    The level cap poll is still around.

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    The level cap poll kinda borders on the ridiculous simply because of the options you have placed in it. No problem with the subject in itself at all.

  • Kristie83Kristie83 Member Posts: 259
    Tanthalas said:

    I killed the Kivan sexuality poll because those were starting to become annoying.

    The level cap poll is still around.

    Isn't it a little repressive or constricting to kill a thread just because its annoying?

    MedullaOblongata
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Kristie83

    It wasn't just one thread, but several, that's why all those polls were closed.

    This isn't a democracy. Any time a moderator deletes a post/discussion there will always be someone out there that considers it repressive. But you can contact one of the developers (Nathan would be the most appropriate one) if you think I'm making a mistake.

    Pantalion
  • Kristie83Kristie83 Member Posts: 259
    edited November 2012
    @Tanthalas I apologize for offending you. I know you have the right to kill any thread you desire, but nobody has to look at a thread that they think is annoying. I thought those threads were dumb too, but I think its nice for people to be able to communicate freely, unless of course, it gets to be too hostile. I truly didn't mean to offend you though, I just wanted to communicate my difference of opinion. In no way do I wish to contact the developers, I think you're doing a fine job otherwise.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Kristie83

    I wasn't offended.

    Its not like I'm some kind of professional moderator, I make mistakes too, so if someone thinks I've erred and I don't agree with them, they should contact one of the developers.

    One of the things that I try to do is keep the forum from getting spammed with similar discussions. The sexuality polls were starting to get out of hand so I decided to close them.

    Moomintroll
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • Kristie83Kristie83 Member Posts: 259
    @Tanthalas I'm glad I didn't offend you and I know you're doing your best. Keep up the good work.

    [Deleted User]MedullaOblongata
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,338
    Kristie83 said:

    nobody has to look at a thread that they think is annoying. I thought those threads were dumb too, but I think its nice for people to be able to communicate freely, unless of course, it gets to be too hostile.

    There's a reason there are several subforums though - the off-topic forum in particular is there if you feel you want to joke around with something that isn't very game-related. Saying "you don't have to look at the thread if you don't like it" doesn't make for a very good policy imo as virtually any kind of spam, attention-seeking or troll posting can be defended by referring to it.

  • Kristie83Kristie83 Member Posts: 259
    @Shin Technically, as dumb as they were, all those threads were BG related so they were still fit into the subforum's theme.

  • MedullaOblongataMedullaOblongata Member Posts: 434
    I favor "don't like, don't read", but that pretty much takes a back seat to "my house, my rules". Overhaul does have a public face to maintain, and a message board that is in chaos from a divided community is probably not the happy, inviting place they'd like others to see.

    That being said, I said in another thread that I felt the number of polls should be tripled. I formally rescind that statement.

    They should be quintupled. :P

    Kristie83ARKdeEREH
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,338
    @Kristie83 The sexual preferences might technically be called game related, the pole one I wouldn't classify as such. There's a grey zone though, is a topic really relevant to BG because it mentions an NPC without having any further bearing in relation to the games? I guess at some point it ends up being a judgment call by a moderator, as happened here.

  • Kristie83Kristie83 Member Posts: 259
    @Shin Yes, you are correct, there is definitely a grey zone when it comes to those threads, and right or wrong, a judgment call was made.

  • GygaxianProseGygaxianProse Member Posts: 201
    Shin said:

    @Kristie83 The sexual preferences might technically be called game related, the pole one I wouldn't classify as such. There's a grey zone though, is a topic really relevant to BG because it mentions an NPC without having any further bearing in relation to the games? I guess at some point it ends up being a judgment call by a moderator, as happened here.

    Umm, no. The polearm thread had a fun discussion going on, then your complaining derailed it. There are polearms in D&D. And in BG. Just stay out of the threads that don't interest you, and stop being a buzzkill for everyone else.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,338

    Umm, no. The polearm thread had a fun discussion going on, then your complaining derailed it. There are polearms in D&D. And in BG. Just stay out of the threads that don't interest you, and stop being a buzzkill for everyone else.

    That poll was just a collection of puns, neither the questions it posed nor the vote options had anything to do with the game. Formulating witty vote options and associating along from there might be fun, but again, that's what the off-topic board is for.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    ARKdeEREH
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Kristie83 said:

    Isn't it a little repressive or constricting to kill a thread just because its annoying?

    If I might open this to a hypothetical question (if @ARKdeEREH doesn't mind the mild diversion of the thread for a moment), how "annoying" does something have to be before it's appropriate to remove it?

    What if a poll is opened about "Would Edwin agree with Nazi policies"? Surely it's harmless fun, isn't it? And game fitting, because after all, the Red Wizards of Thay are a human-exclusive "racist" group which dominated their nation. How interesting to talk about how Edwin doesn't seem to care about non-human races. Is he an outcast? Does he just keep his thoughts to himself?

    This has potential as both a poll and a topic for discussion, except that yes, Nazi policies and actions *will* be dragged up, racial prejudice will be examined, and for some people, these things hurt.

    Should they be ignored? After all, it's all in good fun to intellectually dismantle history and see how it relates with games, right?

    What if these people outnumber the ones who are okay with it?

    What if these topic keeps coming up in different forms, time and time again? Would Minsc be a Christian if he were on Earth? Would Xan be a Republican, Democrat, or join the Socialist party? When the game makes no reference to something at all, is it still "game related" to discuss it?

    As it is, it wasn't ARKdeEREH's poll that provoked this action, and it's unfortunate that his thread was closed as a result. There was no Forum Nazi/Troll movement clamouring for all these polls to be closed. In fact, the question came up in a poll about the polls.

    Whilst many people said that they had had enough of these polls (of which there were two already), the vast majority of people were content to allow them to remain, despite being "sick of them".

    Unfortunately some people do not play well with others, and decided the answer to all the above questions was "do whatever I want", and so made a third thread, despite knowing full well that such a thread would annoy a large number of people, despite being told to post elsewhere as a more appropriate setting (as Ark has now done). So who's trolling in this situation?

    It wasn't Ark, certainly, but it wasn't the eight people who replied to the thread saying how annoyed they were (or the twenty more who liked/agreed/insightful'd Tanthalas' post suggesting locking them, versus the one person who said they were okay with it). No, give Mungri a top hat and a cane, because successful troll was successful.

    In this case, "Democracy" was in full effect, and the one who went against the will of the community (and who repeatedly dismissed the opinions of those who disagreed as homophobic or immature, and presumably still does) caused a backlash of public opinion which led to the closing of four threads. I would suggest Tanthalas would not have locked the thread if twenty people had


    This topic aside, I fully appreciate the creation this poll site as the appropriate, mature action to ensure those who are *not* offended by the subject matter (or are at least fully aware that topics that may offend their sensibilities should they choose to go to the site) have a place to engage in them accordingly.

    By the by Ark, I notice your poll still neglects the "Kivan refers to his mate as such as this is the linguistic and cultural standard of his people, it's as implicative of sexuality in either direction as the word 'spouse'", "Regardless of pronouns, Deheriana is a girls name.", and "Deheriana is his pet name for Derrick.", I must say it's looking a little sparse without those key topics that came up in the original discussion.

    Kristie83
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,338
    edited November 2012
    Shandyr said:

    @Shin
    I think you missed the point. You are responsible for having a whole poll moved into off-topic thus ruining the fun for everyone in that thread.

    How did moving it ruin the fun? The thread is still open and available.
    Shandyr said:

    And on top of that you were not even interested in that topic anyway. So why care?

    What have you gained by having that poll moved?
    Is ruining fun for everyone else fun for you?

    Edit: And by the way: You could have asked a moderator by PM. But you asked in public, thus even derailing the poll.

    Well. If it had only been that poll, I probably wouldn't have noticed. But as it were, it came riding the coattails of several other generally off topic polls, and it got to a point where it felt to me like enough was enough. The way I see it, there's a reason why forums are divided into sections, where something posted in one section is expected to contribute to that section and be relevant to it. That didn't seem to be the case there.

    I do agree that I could have asked in a PM though, I'm sorry about that. I should have waited instead of posting with a slightly irritated mindset.

    Edit:
    Pantalion said:

    What if these topic keeps coming up in different forms, time and time again? Would Minsc be a Christian if he were on Earth? Would Xan be a Republican, Democrat, or join the Socialist party? When the game makes no reference to something at all, is it still "game related" to discuss it?

    That's pretty much the core issue that lead up to this, which I also tried to express earlier in this thread. Obviously, the topics that can be investigated in relation to a particular NPC are virtually endless. You could create a poll for every aspect of their opinions and physical properties, but the way I see it, that doesn't make it game related.

    Post edited by Shin on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    You may add my Xan poll if you like!

  • Kristie83Kristie83 Member Posts: 259
    I don't understand why some people complain about things cluttering up the boards. The basic function of a forum like this is to keep the threads that people are using and interested in, on the first page so it can be easily found. When the thread is no longer being used, (becomes unpopular,) is drops off the front page which decreases the likelihood that it will be used again. So, if someone starts a thread or poll, (or several,) and others find it annoying, don't respond. If everyone feels its annoying and doesn't respond, it will magically go far, far away. But, if a few people are interested in the thread or poll, and its not hostile, shouldn't they be able to enjoy it? If there are too many unwanted threads cluttering the first page, one can always magically travel to other pages by using those fancy number things at the bottom of the page. One thing that I do like about this forum, (there are other things that I like too,) Is that people here don't do that stupid thing where they "bump" a thread just for the sake of getting it back near the top of the first page.

    MedullaOblongataARKdeEREH
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    TanthalasARKdeEREH
  • Kristie83Kristie83 Member Posts: 259
    edited November 2012
    @Shandyr I agree with you. I was just pointing out that given time, as a result of the way the forum functions, and the community as a result of this, is capable of making these decisions as well as the moderators. I totally get the fact now that this is a "my house my rules" type of place.

    LadyEibhilinRhett's polls were also non-controversial.

    [Deleted User]LadyEibhilinRhett
  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    edited November 2012
    Honestly, I think closing the sexuality polls was a little silly.
    Personally I don't think there were enough of them yet to be annoying, and it feels more like they were all shut down without regard to the content instead of just shutting down the ones where discussion got too heated or out of hand. For example, there was a poll on Xan's sexuality that @Mungri had just started that didn't have very many responses yet and there weren't any offended people bitching about it, but it got shut down with the others. There was also a poll asking people whether or not they felt the sexuality polls needed to stop. The majority of people were okay with letting them continue. This thread got shut down as well, though to be fair, it got off topic several times. Honestly, if people want to discuss this, they should be able to, and if it offends a handful of people, then those people should just stay away from those topics. Most discussions are bound to offend SOMEONE, and I don't see why these polls in particular were targeted. ESPECIALLY when there were certain other threads that were far more annoying. For example, a week ago or so, I was seeing a whole lot of threads with very similar topics, all boiling down to either "why the hell should I buy this game when I already have the original" or "I bet something with BG:EE is going to go wrong". I found these discussions far more pointless and annoying, and yet I never got on the threads to bitch at people and tell them to shut it down.

    While I agree that some threads may have to be shut down if they get hijacked by trolls and everything just goes into chaos, I just don't see why all polls with a specific type of subject were the only ones targeted for deletion, without regard to which ones had gotten out of hand. It just seems somewhat...off, to me.

    And while I think it is pretty cool that @ARKdeEREH has created this separate poll site, it saddens me that circumstances on this forum have gotten to the point where the site even needed to be created in the first place. Really, I think there's something pretty wrong with that.

    And for the record, I personally did not care for the sexuality polls and actually found the one about Minsc extremely tiresome, to the point that I just went 'ugh' inside every time I saw that someone else had posted in it. But at the same time, I think taking them and any other polls down was really not a good decision.

    As for the argument that there is a point when such kinds of polls stop being game related even if they contain in-game characters--Wouldn't it just be easier to move it into the off-topic forum or something, instead of outright closing the thread?

    Because with the mass closing-down the way it is, I think it's really put a chill on free speech. This is from a personal experience--When people started discussing something controversial in my fanart challenge thread, I got scared sick because I was worried there was a possibility that it might get closed down too. Whether or not there actually was a chance is beside the point--just the fact that the environment of the forums was such that I even had the fear at all is the worrying part.

    ARKdeEREHKristie83
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

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