Thinking about choosing a half-elf instread of an elf fighter/mage

Oxford_Guy

Recently I've strangely been considering playing a half-elf fighter/mage instead of an elf, even though it would mean losing out on the elf weapon bonuses and high charm resistance, just so that I can romance Viconia in BG2, LOL! Also it would make me feel like I have a greater choice of weapons (e.g. axes, crossbows), as wouldn't feel I'd be missing out on the elf sword/bow bonuses.

Has anyone else thought along these lines, or am I the only one deranged as such?

Mungri

I think its just you, I wouldn't consider my characters race just for romance options, and I didn't even know about such romance restrictions (I always romanced Aerie anyway).

Pantalion

Nah, there's a lot of derangement around. I frequently roll half-elves, just because I like the race in general. It's not like you really need the racial bonuses with the right classes, that's why humans are still the most overpowered race.

Lemernis

Well, I'm playing a half-elf Fighter-Mage for RP reasons. When I first played the game a dozen years ago that's the first character I created (that I actually finished a game with, anyway). F-M really wasn't very satisfying then, but almost entirely due to my ignorance of the game. So I figured it'd be fun to try it again with BG:EE, except this time putting all the knowledge of the game I have since gained to use.

Anyway, I'd be a little surprised if the comparative loss in bonuses (from being an elf) is something that will actually be felt all that much... (I can't confirm that from my own experience, though.) As a half-elf you still figure to become very powerful. You'll still vanquish the same foes... and so it'll take some extra rounds to do so? I would think that whether you play elf or half-elf, you'll likely still end up getting the majority of the kills (although Dorn may win that honor). And, as you point out, you'll be able to romance Viconia.

Myself, I actually enjoy using some of the weaker NPCs and classes to increase the challenge. (Not exclusively or all the time, but I mix them in often.) I'd get bored playing nothing but the strongest characters.

Oxford_Guy

I guess half-elves also potentially lose out on having 19 Dex at start, though after putting points in Strength and Intelligence, I don't usually have enough left to max out Dex, On the flip side, half-elves can in theory start with 18 Con, though again it can be diificult to have enough points left over to do this (I usually limit myself to the best of 10 dice rolls).

Ulfgar_Torunn

A 'half-elf' is created when an elf meets Korgan.

Go elf, or go home!

Son_of_Imoen

I often choose half-elves as PC rather than an elf because of their bigger stature. Elves have such a tiny avatar, it doesn't befit my idea of a mighty bhaalspawn. On the other end of the spectrum I find the human avatar far too bulky-looking for my liking if I choose to play as a mage or rogue (especially human bards look ugly), so that's another reason to pick half-elves. Thus, mostly for esthetical reasons, it's my favourite race!

Lemernis

Son_of_Imoen said:

I often choose half-elves as PC rather than an elf because of their bigger stature. Elves have such a tiny avatar, it doesn't befit my idea of a mighty bhaalspawn. On the other end of the spectrum I find the human avatar far too bulky-looking for my liking if I choose to play as a mage or rogue (especially human bards look ugly), so that's another reason to pick half-elves. Thus, mostly for esthetical reasons, it's my favourite race!

My feelings are the same with respect to not particularly caring for the slightly built elf animation in BG2 (which BG:EE will use).

Mungri

I prefer the elf thief avatars, the hood fits them perfectly. I wish the same avatar applied to elf archers and mages.

Oxford_Guy

BGEE will use the 1pp avatars and paper dolls, which are a little improved

Shin

I make the race choice based on RP (or class I want to play), but essentially I'm never a pure elf since I like Viconia. I agree that the human avatars look too bulky for some classes, but it's an easy fix. With the avatar morphing script you can look the way you feel you should look.

Oxford_Guy

Shin said:

I make the race choice based on RP (or class I want to play), but essentially I'm never a pure elf since I like Viconia. I agree that the human avatars look too bulky for some classes, but it's an easy fix. With the avatar morphing script you can look the way you feel you should look.

Although that might not work (for now) with BGEE

Shin

It's possible, but with the tweak pack having been updated for EE and the various avatar designations likely being the same, I don't think it will have changed significantly.

Forse

Don't forget that half-elves get more HP due to their higher constitution. This is quite significant for fighter multiclasses.

I usually pick half-elves since I think it's a cooler race.

Quartz

Normally I wouldn't be an Elf either, because I'm a sucker for Constitution.

But honestly now that I think about it, Fighter/Mages aren't exactly front-liners. They're for support, shooting lots of arrows, buffing people, and throwing the odd magic missile or what not. The bonus to Dexterity AND Elven Bow bonus is already a better THAC0 than the Half-Elf Fighter/Mage by 2. Pretty significant, and truly, I doubt a Fighter/Mage is going to engage in melee very often, so that 2 better ranged THAC0 is probably far more useful than +1 more HP/level.

That said I can't blame you for wanting to romance Viconia. :P

Lemernis

@Oxford_Guy What stats do you think you'll have? I guess this depends on whether you Ctrl+18 and pare down, or roll until you get what feels right, etc.

Shin

Quartz said:

Normally I wouldn't be an Elf either, because I'm a sucker for Constitution.

But honestly now that I think about it, Fighter/Mages aren't exactly front-liners. They're for support, shooting lots of arrows, buffing people, and throwing the odd magic missile or what not.

Fighter/Mages for support? In the very early game that may be true, but eventually defensive abilities like stoneskin, mirror image, PFMW etc will make them extremely capable on the front line, more so than some extra constitution ever could.

Oxford_Guy

My intention is to buff my fighter/mage to f*ck and send him/her into melee rather than standing on the sidelines...

Oxford_Guy

Lemernis said:

@Oxford_Guy What stats do you think you'll have? I guess this depends on whether you Ctrl+18 and pare down, or roll until you get what feels right, etc.

I usually roll best of 10 or so, don't like to munchkin it too much

HaHaCharade

Oxford_Guy said:

Recently I've strangely been considering playing a half-elf fighter/mage instead of an elf, even though it would mean losing out on the elf weapon bonuses and high charm resistance, just so that I can romance Viconia in BG2, LOL! Also it would make me feel like I have a greater choice of weapons (e.g. axes, crossbows), as wouldn't feel I'd be missing out on the elf sword/bow bonuses.

Has anyone else thought along these lines, or am I the only one deranged as such?

Half-Elf Fighter/Mage is better

18 Con vs. a 17 - More HP. The resistances are mostly crap. Sleep is never casted on you and charm not enough to matter.

But if you want the *best* fighter/spell-caster option - Gnome Fighter/Illusionist.

HaHaCharade

Shin said:

Quartz said:

Normally I wouldn't be an Elf either, because I'm a sucker for Constitution.

But honestly now that I think about it, Fighter/Mages aren't exactly front-liners. They're for support, shooting lots of arrows, buffing people, and throwing the odd magic missile or what not.

Fighter/Mages for support? In the very early game that may be true, but eventually defensive abilities like stoneskin, mirror image, PFMW etc will make them extremely capable on the front line, more so than some extra constitution ever could.

Fighter/Mages *totally* rock for the reasons you just said Shin. Mirror Image, Shield, Blur, so many "Self-Only" spells that make them super tough tanks.

Oxford_Guy

HaHaCharade said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Recently I've strangely been considering playing a half-elf fighter/mage instead of an elf, even though it would mean losing out on the elf weapon bonuses and high charm resistance, just so that I can romance Viconia in BG2, LOL! Also it would make me feel like I have a greater choice of weapons (e.g. axes, crossbows), as wouldn't feel I'd be missing out on the elf sword/bow bonuses.

Has anyone else thought along these lines, or am I the only one deranged as such?

Half-Elf Fighter/Mage is better

18 Con vs. a 17 - More HP. The resistances are mostly crap. Sleep is never casted on you and charm not enough to matter.

But if you want the *best* fighter/spell-caster option - Gnome Fighter/Illusionist.

But they can't cast necromancy spells, no Horrid Wilting etc.!

Lemernis

@Quartz I'll be meleeing with mine. But I also want to see if I'm up to the challenge of deftly integrating spellcasting in the midst of front line combat. I know I'll have him use Ghoul Touch. I hope also to have him get off a few other choice spells in the thick of combat. Spells that disable the enemy, mainly. And I may use a Wand of Paralyzation and darts of stunning.

He'll get some extra HP from his familiar. And IIRC a Fighter-Mage can cast in eleven chain. (?)

He won't really hit his stride until BG2:EE. But I think should be fun to try to get the most out of his skills on the front line in BG:EE.

Oxford_Guy

@Lermernis, throwing darts during melee is not very sensible, enemies will get +4 to hit you, no?

Lemernis

Thinking more on spell selection, I guess the dilemma will be whether, at low levels, to allocate spell slots for 1) buffing spells in addition to Armor, such as Blur and Mirror Image, or, 2) have more fun trying to cast spells during melee like Ghoul Touch, Sleep, Horror, Charm, Hold, etc.

I'll have to get every item that maxes the number of spell slots!

Oxford_Guy

Casting spells during melee doesn't sound like a good idea, unless the casting time is short, or you're so buffed already that nothing is going to touch you

Brude

Only two reasons to go half-elf: Romance and class restrictions. Otherwise, not worth it.

In the original game, an Elven fighter can have the highest possible starting thac0 with both melee -and- ranged weapons (over 18/50 STR, 19 DEX, ** Large Swords, ** Bows).

In BGEE, only a half orc would be better in melee (and they can't be fighter/mages, iirc).

ARKdeEREH

I did the same thing. I created a Fighter/Mage half-elf PC so that I could romance Viconia. Then I really liked the character and came to like Viconia a lot more than I thought I would as a result of the romance, so I kept playing with both of them for another five playthroughs.

Quartz

If you're meleeing, I would actually suggest Gnome Fighter/Illusionist. You can get your 18 Constitution, you get bonus spells, and you get a +5 bonus to your Save vs. Spells/Wands (at 18 Con). Pretty substantial stuff.

Honestly the reason to pick an Elven Fighter/Mage over that is to be Mr. Supporter like I was saying, so if you're not going to play like that, and melee instead, seriously, go for the Gnome.

Brude said:

Only two reasons to go half-elf: Romance and class restrictions. Otherwise, not worth it.

Actually, third reason: If you can't make up you mind where you want to compromise so you do decent at everything instead of making a dedicated choice. Slightly silly reason, but worth mentioning ... honestly I would recommend half-elf for all newbies.

Oxford_Guy

Quartz said:

If you're meleeing, I would actually suggest Gnome Fighter/Illusionist. You can get your 18 Constitution, you get bonus spells, and you get a +5 bonus to your Save vs. Spells/Wands (at 18 Con). Pretty substantial stuff.

Honestly the reason to pick an Elven Fighter/Mage over that is to be Mr. Supporter like I was saying, so if you're not going to play like that, and melee instead, seriously, go for the Gnome.

Gnomes certainly have some advantages, though they lose out on the +1 THAC0 that elves get with swords, can't cast necromancy spells, have even more limited romance options (currently just Aerie) and in BG2 have the worst paperdoll and avatar in the entire game, though the 1pp ones in BGEE will hopefully be better.

Also, if I do go for 18 Con that probably means compromises elsewhere, as Str, Dex and Int all need to be high too.

Lemernis

Oxford_Guy said:

Casting spells during melee doesn't sound like a good idea, unless the casting time is short, or you're so buffed already that nothing is going to touch you

Having used it before with a meleeing mages, I know Ghoul Touch works quite well in terms of casting time. That has a casting time of 3. Enemies can save against it, but during the window of opportunity to cast the spell the caster may keep at it, and it most often eventually succeeds. (There is of course some risk that that the caster will get hit while casting, but I found that result to be pretty rare.) There is something very satisfying about the spell, as it makes a cool sound when it paralyzes the target and they become frozen in a greenish haze. I will often follow up then with Vampiric Touch, which also has a casting time of 3.

Anyway, point being I know from past games that this spell combo works well on the front line.

Below are the spells I'll be most likely to try, listed more or less in the order that I would be inclined to use them. (Remember, I'm mainly setting out to disable the target.) Note that the greater the casting time, the higher level the spell--which also means the higher level the caster, and then the higher the THACO, plus any spell protections, etc.

Casting Time = 1
Sleep (imho the most powerful low level spell in the game; but my back row casters will be casting it also)
Chromatic Orb (I won't use this until 4th level when it blinds; 5th level it stuns; disabling effects improve at each successive higher level, etc.)
Charm Person (make the target fight against his own comrades; I prefer to cast this spell versus Algernon's Cloak which I feel is unbalancing; my backrow casters will be casting it also)
Color Spray (good fun just for the neat spell effect)
Spook (probably won't use since Horror gives so much more bang for the buck)
Magic Missile (question: in BG:EE will I most often do more damage dual wielding katana and long sword versus this spell?)
Larloch's Minor Drain (really not worth the spell slot if I can dole more damage with weapons)
Shocking Grasp (really not worth the spell slot if I can dole more damage with weapons)
Burning Hands (really not worth the spell slot if I can dole more damage with weapons)

Casting Time = 2
Blindness (great versus mages; although I'll usually have my backrow casters cast this)
Horror (right up there with Sleep as one of the best low level spells in the game; backrow casters will be casting it also)
Glitterdust (blinded enemies is always a good thing; backrow casters will be casting it also)
Melf's Acid Arrow (again the question of whether martial weapons will most often deliver more damage)
Dire Charm (Charm Person seems to work just as well, however; backrow casters will be casting it also)

Casting Time = 3
Ghoul Touch (such great fun value)
Vampiric Touch (love this in combo with Ghoul Touch)
Hold Person (one of the best spells in the game, although this will already be a staple for my backrow casters)
Slow (one of my favorites, although the casters in the backrow will be using it too)
Lightning Bolt (almost too risky due to friendly fire casualties, but packs such a wallop)
Melf's Minute Meteors (again the question of whether martial weapons will most often deliver more damage; and backrow casters will be using this also as their last spell)

Casting Time = 4
Confusion (awesome spell, basically Horror but more powerful; backrow casters will be casting it also)
Emotion: Hoplessness (excellent, the higher level version of Sleep; backrow casters will be casting it also)
Chaos (another excellent higher level version of Horror; backrow casters will be casting it also)
Contagion (versus enemy spellcasters to distract their casting; backrow casters will be casting it also)

Casting Time = 5
Domination (similar lower level spells may work just as well; may be used by backrow casters instead)
Feeblemind (similar lower level spells may work just as well; may be used by backrow casters instead)
Hold Monster (may be used by backrow casters instead)