Goblins as a playable race
Dev6
Member Posts: 721
Well, SoD has been out for quite some time now, and I've been wondering this.
Why aren't Goblins available as a playable race?
I understand that their paper-dolls/sprites don't reflect all the armors and weapons available in the game (as one can easily see by playing with M’Khiin) but I honestly don't think anyone would complain much about that. Just make them playable with only the Fighter and Shaman classes and they'll look alright.
Is it a technical limitation? Or is it just a case of "no one wants to play as a goblin"?
I understand that RP-wise it wouldn't make much sense for Charname to be a Goblin (NPCs would probably just react as if you were a more... let's say "common/non-monster" race), but I would still enjoy creating one.
I understand Drows and Avariel (for example) not being available. As far as aesthetics go, all you have to do is create an Elf and give it dark skin (drow) or use the console to give it wings (avariel).
Mind you, I'm talking aesthetics here, I realise it wouldn't make much sense for charname to be a drow or avariel either, and that you would still be missing the actual race characteristics (magic resistence, etc).
But Goblins are different.
I see no point in having a Goblin NPC but not being able to create your own. Can any Dev answer me?
I'm a programmer myself, so if it's a code/engine limitation then I can totally understand that, but as of right now I see no reason for it.
Why aren't Goblins available as a playable race?
I understand that their paper-dolls/sprites don't reflect all the armors and weapons available in the game (as one can easily see by playing with M’Khiin) but I honestly don't think anyone would complain much about that. Just make them playable with only the Fighter and Shaman classes and they'll look alright.
Is it a technical limitation? Or is it just a case of "no one wants to play as a goblin"?
I understand that RP-wise it wouldn't make much sense for Charname to be a Goblin (NPCs would probably just react as if you were a more... let's say "common/non-monster" race), but I would still enjoy creating one.
I understand Drows and Avariel (for example) not being available. As far as aesthetics go, all you have to do is create an Elf and give it dark skin (drow) or use the console to give it wings (avariel).
Mind you, I'm talking aesthetics here, I realise it wouldn't make much sense for charname to be a drow or avariel either, and that you would still be missing the actual race characteristics (magic resistence, etc).
But Goblins are different.
I see no point in having a Goblin NPC but not being able to create your own. Can any Dev answer me?
I'm a programmer myself, so if it's a code/engine limitation then I can totally understand that, but as of right now I see no reason for it.
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Comments
The main antagonist for SoD is Caelar Argent, an Aasimar. Yet if I remember correctly you'd need to install the Planetouched Races mod to play as an Aasimar (don't have the game installed at the moment to actually check).
Since you are a programmer, I'd suggest making a mod. There are people in the community that could probably help you figure it out since others have made mods for class and race kits.
You can find a list of mods for BG/SOD here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50340/bg-ee-2-0-and-siege-of-dragonspear-compatible-mods/p1
So, with a little RP and EEKeeper it makes for a different run. I know @ThacoBell has run a kobold for a bit and found that looking at the game from a kobold perspective to be a little jarring (having your brethren in the Nashkel mines coming after ya and be mislead. Once thinking in that mindset and encountering things (other kobolds for him and ogres for me) it gets the imagination flowing.
After three ogre runs (and I get Min/max scores, likes/dislikes, natural AC, MR or not/ natural invisibility of pixie, etc. from the old 2nd edition D&D Humanoid Companions Book), I am having a little trouble adjusting back to a human run now, heh.
Quite fun I will say.
But yeah, I hear ya, full choice at from the standard game would be nice.
You make a good point about Caelar being an Aasimar, but to be fair, aesthetically she's pretty much just a human.
Goblins would be a completely different and new playable race.
I understand your point about it not being a priority, but it would be nice to hear beamdog's official stance on it.
@ThacoBell
The animations problem already happens with M’Khiin but I don't see it as something too serious.
I mean, sure, it'd be nice to have a properly animated Goblin, but let's not ask for miracles here. I understand how incredibly time consuming that would be.
Furthermore a goblin would require completely different reactions by NPC rather other races.
Too messy.
At least it could be a mod, but I do not want to see Beamdog burdened by that. They are already swamped with work
However, I don't think I'd worry too much about goblinoid Bhaalspawn. The game already allows for half-orc, and if you take the half part literally we already have Bhaal copulating with orcs.
As for the reactions you're absolutely right.
I think a half-orc bhaalspawn means bhaal got together with a half-orc, not an orc though.
I mean, sure, it'd be nice to have a properly animated Goblin, but let's not ask for miracles here. I understand how incredibly time consuming that would be. "
We will have to disagree here. It's not a problem with M'Khiin because she doesn't use any normal weapons at all. All her weapons are coded to be used specifically for her. You can't do that with charname as people favor different weapons in different combinations. Having a race, but only able to use two weapon types ever would leave me frothing at the mouth. And I'm in favor of more playable goblinoid races.
@ThacoBell Ah yes, I see your point now.
There was some serious, sometimes heated discussion, about whether M'Khiin was viable as an NPC, on the grounds that, in the FR, goblins as a whole are regarded as roughly equivalent to rabid dogs--something that's dangerous and should be immediately slaughtered for the good of all.
M'Khiin ultimately got through because the Champion of Baldur's Gate would vouch for her, at least long enough for her to prove she's more useful than a rabid dog. But following the rabid dog logic, a player goblin character would have to have a lot of text and reactions created specifically to deal with how a character of such a maligned race could feasibly follow Charname's path when 99 out of 100 people they encountered would be inclined to immediately open fire.
That's following a logical thread that may not actually be relevant. The important thing was that from several important points of view, including WotC's, Goblins Are Monsters Not PCs and That's Just The Way It Is.
Note: What I wrote above is based on conversations that happened two or three years ago, my recollection is notoriously swiss cheese-like in its consistency, and I don't have access to any of the notes I may have taken at the time of the discussions, so this is, as usual, just one guy's view--take it with a grain (or a pillar) of salt.
Then we can sort the spelling out.
We can but dream.
[ducks back into bomb shelter]
By an odd coincidence, I started reading Mencken’s The American Language recently for the first time in years. It’s a very interesting book, though a bit dated now, but I do really recommend it.
(Please forgive atrocious grammar. Rough translation)
But they'd have to make every dialogue choice "rraAAAAAAAWWWWRRRRHHh" though.