Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit www.planescape.com to purchase and check for details. Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition Official Soundtrack is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Why use a sorcerer spell for time stop?

chain contingency has no casting time and can load up 3 of any combination of spells. The only flaw with contingency is that aiming them can be difficult which is about the only semi-decent use of time stop that springs to mind. That and shape change: mind flayer, but that denies experience points and mages can be pretty good in a fight when they decide to load tensers, improved haste and protection from magic weapons into a spell trigger. As long as the fight doesn't take too long.

Still, is it good for a sorcerer to use one of his 4 top level spells on time stop when shape change: golem can make him indestructible to other mages, spell strike can destroy liches, and chain contingency and wish can do almost anything that you can imagine? Not to mention that almost nothing the sorcerer casts, (including his best magic) even has a casting time while wearing the robe and amulet? Why bother stopping time when the entire spell book can be dumped anywhere in the 4 seconds a properly equipped mage needs to stop time?
Rik_Kirtaniya

Comments

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 52
    Good question @unavailable. I would like to know the answer of this as well.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 483
    Many of us consider casting Chain Contingency mid combat as an exploit. This being said you do not really NEED Time Stop, IA is enough.

    But TS is also just cool. Also durations of buffs and debuffs continue running during TS. This has some interesting applications . As has the autohit, especially in combination with Shapechange Mindflayer.
    tbone1semiticgodlolien
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 52
    edited November 5
    Ammar said:

    Also durations of buffs and debuffs continue running during TS. This has some interesting applications .

    @Ammar Might I ask what these applications are?

    And by the way, if one is wise enough, one might better take Wish in place of Time Stop. That has just so many more utilities. [Re-memorizing your entire spell-book is just one of them.] I'm not sure if Wish gives random consequences, but most probably a genie gives you options to choose from, and if so, you can just cast a double length Time Stop + Improved Alacrity from one of the wish options, if you really need Time Stop in any certain situation.
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 438
    edited November 5
    I have played a sorcerer without time stop. Chain contingency is not exactly a replacement, because it is too unreliable to trigger; in both EE and original BG2 sometimes there is a noticeable delay.

    However, for a party playthrough, I'd take time stop over shapechange because: a) with enough fighters in the party (or Haer'Dalis cheesy sword) there is little point to melee as a mindflayer and b) it's more about neutralizing enemies before they can focus on other, less protected party members. (though the last point depends on the mods & NPCs used)
    Wish time stop is not a replacement either, because it's not guaranteed and there is a delay between casting and the effect.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 4,403
    I've always been disappointed with Time Stop, because the enemies against whom you really, really need it are immune to it. In fact, when I was first experimenting with it, I got my whole party killed once because I cast it against an immune boss who proceeded to start whaling on my time-frozen party.
    ThacoBelltbone1mf2112
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,410
    @BelgarathMTH This was every time I tried to use time stop. I know the feel.
    BelgarathMTH
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 438
    edited November 5

    The game has some sort of internal counter - which is independent from the personal combat rounds measured for each actor. Try hitting the bard song button and measure how long it takes to kick in. It can be near-immediate, or it can take several seconds. Basically it happens at the end of that "internal round." Contingencies operate the same way. Probably other stuff too, like finding traps.

    interesting, thanks for the explanation :smile:
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,335
    Chain contingency does have a casting time of 9, just like Time Stop. Plus it's rather unreliable compared to Time Stop, because you do not really control when it's gonna be released.
    Some actions (contingencies, traps, skull traps, bard song, detect trap...) trigger based on a global, "hidden" timer once per round, while other (spell cooldown most importantly) have their own cooldown (still 6 seconds but it starts when you start casting the spell). Not having control onto when your contingency will be released can be terrible and simply waste the spells in it.

    Oh and two words to explain why Time Stop is better:
    Improved Alacrity.
    Time stop has that fancy feature which allows you to exactly plan when each spell will land first, but still timing them closely enough so that you can land your dispelling spells first and then unleash 30 spells that will land 0,2sec after and your enemies won't have time to react.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 911
    Arunsun said:

    Chain contingency does have a casting time of 9

    Chain contingency only has a casting time if cast through a scroll or AI script.
    Manually casting it is instant.
    semiticgod
  • Joan_DaroJoan_Daro Member Posts: 43
    Time stop is NOT necessary. And you don't actually need to abuse chain contingency. Improved alacrity is much better.
    Btw, to avoid the contingency delay, set the trigger on "hit" then Larloch minor drain yourself.
    brunardoStummvonBordwehr
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 438
    edited November 7
    I'd still take time stop plus alacrity, instead of just alacrity in certain Ascension/SCS fights, when playing with a party. As @Arunsun pointed out, this lets you ensure the spells actually land in the correct order and don't get interrupted by some aoe attack.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 483
    edited November 7

    Ammar said:

    Also durations of buffs and debuffs continue running during TS. This has some interesting applications .

    @Ammar Might I ask what these applications are?

    And by the way, if one is wise enough, one might better take Wish in place of Time Stop. That has just so many more utilities. [Re-memorizing your entire spell-book is just one of them.] I'm not sure if Wish gives random consequences, but most probably a genie gives you options to choose from, and if so, you can just cast a double length Time Stop + Improved Alacrity from one of the wish options, if you really need Time Stop in any certain situation.
    Time Stop can be useful to remove short-running but powerful buffs from enemies. E.g. consider a lich with PfMW (Breach won't work on liches) or if you run the appropriate mods various HLA from enemies, including Improved Alacrity. By the time Time Stop ends (heh) those buffs will have run out. Certainly not the only option here, but can be a interesting to use. Also important to keep in mind if you use those abilities yourself (i.e. do not have your Fighter pop GWW right before your mage casts Time Stop).

    The Wish option is nice, but it does not come up reliably enough and has a considerable delay due to you having to wait for the Djinni to inititate dialogue.
    Rik_Kirtaniyasemiticgod
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 52
    Ammar said:


    Time Stop can be useful to remove short-running but powerful buffs from enemies. E.g. consider a lich with PfMW (Breach won't work on liches) or if you run the appropriate mods various HLA from enemies, including Improved Alacrity. By the time Time Stop ends (heh) those buffs will have run out. Certainly not the only option here, but can be a interesting to use. Also important to keep in mind if you use those abilities yourself (i.e. do not have your Fighter pop GWW right before your mage casts Time Stop).

    Thanks for the information @Ammar. Great to know about this.

    By the way, the most convincing reasons to use Time Stop, in my opinion, is that it is, in a way, a mass "hold"-type spell with no save, cast on everyone except yourself (saving 2 or 3 bosses who are or can become immune to it). [And along with all the benefits of a hold spell, it also prevents spell interruption, as has already been said.] Now, if one looks in that perspective, Time stop indeed does very well in preventing others from acting, and perhaps, becomes crucial in those situations where letting the enemy act for even one round is potentially deadly. Time stop allows you an opportunity to finish your enemy, before your enemy can finish you.
Sign In or Register to comment.