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Making a new game for business trip. swashy/fighter dual-11/xx- best thief point use for saga?

LoomisLoomis Member Posts: 21
Human for dual ... I get 290 points to spend ... before dueling to fighter...

Here is what I was thinking ... but would love to hear experienced users suggestions ... I've only played bg1 so this will be first time into SOD and Bg2... I'm on iPad if it matters ... non modded bgee sod bg2ee straight from app store

My thoughts

100 set traps ... good damage over time traps it seems and sounds fun to sneak around prepping battles before engaging
100 detect illusion .... sounds important heh ... but no clue
100 find traps ....

Leaves 5 points left which prolly won't do much in anything else

I'm a thinking correctly on right track ? Or way better way to spend the limited points to use across the trilogy ?



Aerakar

Comments

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 2,483
    Solo or with a party?

    If the sooner, I'd go to around 50/50 in locks and find traps and use potions for the harder ones. There's a couple of rings of danger sense that gives +25% find traps and some other items that grant thief skills.

    I think traps is the numero uno skill for a charname thief. It can be used to kill anything and it will take out Drizzt, Elminster or whoever you want to kill in BG1 with ease. So for solo, traps is the first skill I max out. Then I run down to the sirenes and just trap/sleep until they spawn in 8 of them in a group and kill them off for like 20k EXP. Do that a couple of times and you max your level in no time.
    Detect illusion is great as well, so I agree on that. I use it extensively, especially for a non-mage type of thief since you won't have any other means to dispel mages buffs until UAI and scrolls. But Dispel Illusion is a really, really great skill.

    So, for BG1 and onwards I'd go:
    Max traps
    50/50 find traps/pick locks
    Max detect illusion

    Pickpocket and stealth is only good if you play pure thieves or specialized backstabbers. You can use a sand ring to get invisibility to do some scouting in advance and plant traps, retreat and lure your prey into them.

    If the latter, meaning with a party, just pick anything since your NPC friends can complement you. I'd prolly go with lockpick instead of find traps, but that's just me. Traps can be walked through if you are lazy but locks cannot be picked without the skill (some can be bashed but not the harder ones). So for convenience I'd go with locks.
    Aerakar
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,641
    If you're starting with 18 Dexterity note that the tome in BG1 gives +5% in Snares and Traps respectively. In BG2 you can get another +2 if you know where to look (and also lose 1 depending on your actions), so you can just put 95 into Set and Find Traps through BG1, up it to 100 with the Tome, and keep it at 100 in BG2 either way.


    Set Traps is okay, you'll only have level 11 Snares and none of the game breaking traps that define high level thieves, so it may fall behind, especially if you have other thieves in your party.

    Other two skills are generally valuable throughout.

    And for the record, the level 11 Swashbuckler dualling pains me for not being 10 or 15 for the AC/Hit/Damage boost.
  • B4nJ0B4nJ0 Member Posts: 92
    edited November 6
    Why swash over Kensai?


    Kensai is a better kit, is stronger bg1 and stronger late bg2.

    If u solo u can easily go ken13/thief or the classic dual at 9.

    I do pick swash into fighter only if I want a fast dual and to not gimp the party too much ( I always end with multiple kensai9 duals so having 3x dumped char is a bit stressful if u don’t go for quest exp reward stacking) and still I think is trash compared to Kensai into thief.

    That sad my fav main is a blade, which require an hell of a work to make it comparable to fighter mage dual (str tome, dual +1aps weaps..) just to feel the little better exp table for skullgrasp and different stronghold as a counter element :p so go with swash if u want :p

    Thief skill wise 100 detect illusion rest up to u IMO, u can work on traps and unlock stuff with pots or spells and u can gimp traps altogheter, but for ez management 100 find traps, unlock and detect is a no brainer ( and yeah check dex table couz going to 19 dex gives some +5%)
  • LoomisLoomis Member Posts: 21
    B4nJ0 said:

    Why swash over Kensai?


    Kensai is a better kit, is stronger bg1 and stronger late bg2.

    If u solo u can easily go ken13/thief or the classic dual at 9.

    I do pick swash into fighter only if I want a fast dual and to not gimp the party too much ( I always end with multiple kensai9 duals so having 3x dumped char is a bit stressful if u don’t go for quest exp reward stacking) and still I think is trash compared to Kensai into thief.

    That sad my fav main is a blade, which require an hell of a work to make it comparable to fighter mage dual (str tome, dual +1aps weaps..) just to feel the little better exp table for skullgrasp and different stronghold as a counter element :p so go with swash if u want :p

    Thief skill wise 100 detect illusion rest up to u IMO, u can work on traps and unlock stuff with pots or spells and u can gimp traps altogheter, but for ez management 100 find traps, unlock and detect is a no brainer ( and yeah check dex table couz going to 19 dex gives some +5%)


    The whole no armor thing turns me off of kensai and I want to play a ranged char without magic that is is good in melee and ranged ... without playing a good aligned archer that is not s good in melee

    So based on the best theory crafting I could muster seems a swashbuckler / fighter 11/xx is my best option to play true neutral and still be good at ranged and able to dps behind tank when I feel like it as well ... 10/xxx if you don't care about the big increase in traps at 11

    Anywoo that's my logic for the playthrough

    Just picking skills that are good throughout the whole series considering I only get 290 points is hard to figure out as I've not be tired past 1st Baldur's gate ever
  • LoomisLoomis Member Posts: 21
    edited November 6
    Pantalion said:

    If you're starting with 18 Dexterity note that the tome in BG1 gives +5% in Snares and Traps respectively. In BG2 you can get another +2 if you know where to look (and also lose 1 depending on your actions), so you can just put 95 into Set and Find Traps through BG1, up it to 100 with the Tome, and keep it at 100 in BG2 either way.


    Set Traps is okay, you'll only have level 11 Snares and none of the game breaking traps that define high level thieves, so it may fall behind, especially if you have other thieves in your party.

    Other two skills are generally valuable throughout.

    And for the record, the level 11 Swashbuckler dualling pains me for not being 10 or 15 for the AC/Hit/Damage boost.

    Well picked 11 because you'll end up same level as fighter whether dualing at 11 or 10 so figured might as well grab the better trap with poison dot ... but your saying not so useful in bg2 so rethinking a bit

    PantalionSkatan
  • LoomisLoomis Member Posts: 21
    Side note making char tonight in hotel in airport now
    Skatan
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,641
    Loomis said:

    Well picked 11 because you'll end up same level as fighter whether dualing at 11 or 10 so figured might as well grab the better trap with poison dot ... but your saying not so useful in bg2 so rethinking a bit

    Good point, wasn't thinking about set snare. The poison could be handy against mages as well, certainly a better reason than OCD.

    Skatan
  • ElendarElendar Member Posts: 821
    Loomis said:



    The whole no armor thing turns me off of kensai and I want to play a ranged char without magic that is is good in melee and ranged ... without playing a good aligned archer that is not s good in melee

    So based on the best theory crafting I could muster seems a swashbuckler / fighter 11/xx is my best option to play true neutral and still be good at ranged and able to dps behind tank when I feel like it as well ... 10/xxx if you don't care about the big increase in traps at 11

    Anywoo that's my logic for the playthrough

    Just picking skills that are good throughout the whole series considering I only get 290 points is hard to figure out as I've not be tired past 1st Baldur's gate ever

    Berserker (9) --> Thief ??
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,365
    My current charname is S/B dualed to fighter level 10.

    Very satisfying and a lot of fun.
    For me having charname being able to do a lot is important. The thing I found playing no reload was that keeping Charname safe, too much at the back, made me feel like I wasn't playing.

    Skill points, for me locks, pickpocket and set/find traps are paramount.
    "Detect illusion" never bother, nor stealth/move silently.

    My charname is the loudest, most obvious thief in the realms and wouldn't recognise an illusion even if they tripped over one.
    Aerakar
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,044
    i've actually done many level 11 swash dualled over to fighter characters, and making them for the range type as well ( not really a fan of putting my thief in melee)

    so first what i do is try and be strategic one where i put my proficiency points in my thief class, since my thief will be an archer i load up the two handed weapon fighting style and quarterstaves ( so then i dont need to choose it for my fighter levels)

    when it comes to thief skills, i do: find traps 100, open locks 90, pick pocket 80, set traps 100, and if i hit 19 dex before any of those skills hit that max, then i make sure to keep it 5 points lower so when my dex increases it wont be wasted

    with those thief skills, you can unlock any lock in bg1 or 2, and undo any trap, and 80 in pick pocket isnt too bad, there is a pair of mits in the early bg2 game that will increase pick pockets by 20 percent

    also, dierde in the adventure's mart has an item called the "mercy killer ring" i believe and it gives a 20 point bonus to set traps, move silently, and hide in shadows if you need it

    so anyways, when i dual over to fighter, i put 2 points in short bow and 2 points in two handed sword, and then i start cranking those short bow profs, and when that gets maxed out start cranking out that quarterstaff ( luckily already have points on it thanks to prior thief class, because that staff of the ram hits hard )

    now when it comes to short bows which one is better; gesen or tuigan? i have found that gesen has performed better, whether it be the fact that it hits as a +4 weapon, or the fact that every hit deals an extra 1d8 electrical damage and not many enemies are immune to electrical

    solid to hit, solid to damage, solid attacks per round, and the fact that you will be able to use greater whirlwind with that character is solid gold
    SkatanAerakar
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 513
    I've been wanting to try a kensai 9/thief focused on daggers (never played this combo), but berserker/thief would be stronger. But I like to play my thieves as mainly thieves.

    With a swashbuckler/fighter dual, it would seem you want to focus on the fighter side with thief skills to supplement your sword-arm, so why not build a fighter/thief multi? It is cleaner and would seem to meet your criteria for the kind of warrior-thief you are looking for.
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 391
    if you just want the bare Thief Minimum you could actually go Swash6/Fighter. gives you plenty of points to hit 100Trapfind and Open lock(must have skills all others are just flavor/gimmicks), you will lose out on 1 AC and 1DMG/Hit but get 3 levels of better health progression but in return you can finish your dual class already at 84k xp (half of BG1 cap)

    BUT

    the better route would be to play a Fighter Dualed to thief (7/9/13 deepening how long you want to wait) (Fighter7/Thief can be done in BG1!) you get the bigger HP pool .. and BG1 has A LOT of thief's. while BG2 only has lacking selection.


    and if you are not set on being Human... my personal favorite Half Orc Fighter/Thief Multi... 19 Strength will wreck stuff and with bucklys buckler and the resulting con of 20 will cut down on your health potion use since you heal for free during overmap travel and sleeping.
    Aerakar
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,502
    Swashbuckler is considerably better than Kensai in BG1 imho, even if you disregard traps. In fact, even kensai 9 is kinda a pointless dual since berserkers can use gloves and rage. And armour, naturally.

    A swash to fighter could be a decent, versatile warrior. I'd recommend you start out with shortbows, as they are pretty strong in BG1 already, and make life easier than trying to melee with a thief.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,193
    If what you're wanting is a character that's good in ranged and melee it seems a bit odd to me to choose a dual to fighter rather than sticking to a straight swashbuckler. At high levels the swashbuckler is as good as a fighter in basic melee - it's attack is not quite as good, but it's defense is much better to make up for that - and you get thief abilities such as UAI and spike traps as a bonus. The swashie also has the advantage of being able to use stealth to give extra options for ranged attacks. It can be a halfling or dwarf for much better saving throws (which is a major weakness in the dual) and of course you don't then have an issue about where thief points should go as you have enough for everything :p.

    If you're playing in a party the dual makes more sense, as it's a better fighter in the middling range of XP and it's weaknesses can be covered by other party members.
    Aerakar
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