Xzar and Monty with you till the end - ain't it depressing?

DJKajuru

Hey folks, I've just started a new game, and decided to follow the suggestion of having Xzar and Montaron in the party for good. We've just cleared nashkel mines, and , well , I would like to know how you put up with certain things:

- they don't like you, they will never be your friends .
-Montaron reminds me of Chucky from Child's Play.

I like them, I do, but I'd like to know more about the experience of having them throughout the game.

BelgarathMTH

I think you can start getting "happy comments" from any evil npc if you get your reputation down low enough. Evil people are always going to have to keep one eye open when they sleep, ("Sleep lightly, taskmaster!), which is one of the drawbacks to being evil, but you could probably at least get them to respect your leadership or intimidate them into submission if you murder and rob enough.

I've never played with evil characters enough to start hearing their "happy comments", so I don't really know what Xzar and Monty might say. I bet somebody else knows. Do you want them to post it and spoil you, or wouldn't it just be better to play it out and experience it in-game?

DJKajuru

That would be nice. My character is a true neutral bard , reputation 8 (Viconia joined) .

Xzar has been quite fun, has got funny comments and nice banters, but I don't feel that montaron brings out the best of me yet.

Brude

- If you get sick of hearing them complain, drop your rep below 9.

- Pretty sure Montaron overheard that "Chucky" crack and is currently planning to backstab you.

Lemernis

"Sleep lightly, taskmaster,"

Mortianna

When you hear Xzar say, "I'm starting to find this group almost . . . palatable" and Montaron say, "Effective. I may not kill you after all," you'll know that you've earned their respect . . . at least for the time being (as long as your reputation is 6 or below).

BelgarathMTH

@Mortianna, maybe spoiler tags on that? Or not. Just a friendly suggestion.

Mortianna

@belgarathmth Good call. Fixed.

SapphireIce101

Well, when playing an evil party, I usually don't get over 10 rep, and the lowest I've ever gone was 2. So, I didn't hear any complaints from the evil members of the party.

Mortianna

@Sapphirecle101 You won't hear any complaints until your reputation goes into the higher range. The manual actually lists at what point evil, neutral, and good characters are happy, neutral, and unhappy.

SapphireIce101

@Mortianna Oh, I know. Just saying that I usually don't go up very high in reputation when playing evil parties. Now, when I play good parties, then that reputation is going to sky rocket quick, fast, and in a hurry. Heh.

Mortianna

@Sapphirelce101 All the while enjoying that store discount. ^.~

Pantalion

You know, I don't believe Xzar and Monty have ever survived past Chapter 1 or so in my games for one reason or another.

reedmilfam

I just wish high charisma would keep some from breaking away. It's challenging for me to not have evil characters break away because of how I RP...

Tuth

reedmilfam said:

I just wish high charisma would keep some from breaking away. It's challenging for me to not have evil characters break away because of how I RP...

Well, the trick is that when you have very high reputation do not let them talk to you. I am currently playing with Shar-Teel in my party, and for now I have quite high rep. They have to come close to your character, so it is not that difficult to pause and order them to stop. They will not try to go away that frequently, so it is a matter of getting used to it.

elminster

In my current runthrough as an evil thief I ran my sword through both of them. I couldn't stand either of them. Its nothing personal, just business

DJKajuru

I don't plan on having a very low reputation - my character is true neutral , so he will neither do stuff out of cruelty nor help everyone in town.

DJKajuru

Tuth said:

reedmilfam said:

I just wish high charisma would keep some from breaking away. It's challenging for me to not have evil characters break away because of how I RP...

Well, the trick is that when you have very high reputation do not let them talk to you. I am currently playing with Shar-Teel in my party, and for now I have quite high rep. They have to come close to your character, so it is not that difficult to pause and order them to stop. They will not try to go away that frequently, so it is a matter of getting used to it.

In other words, you're simply pushing them away before they can ask for a divorce hahaha

Oxford_Guy

I usually keep Monty around when playing an evil party, in a scouting and stealthy/stabby role, and back-up tank. Xzar I usually kill off or get turned to stone and take Edwin instead, though dualing him to a cleric is another option (though I always choose Viconia for Cleric duties).

Oxford_Guy

reedmilfam said:

I just wish high charisma would keep some from breaking away. It's challenging for me to not have evil characters break away because of how I RP...

Does Charisma actually have an effect on this? I know it can affect whether an NPC will join your party in the first place, but I thought that was all

DJKajuru

I've been trying to guess my character's motivations for keeping them :

1- He's joined them to nashkel 'cause he had nothing better to do, and some lunatic who had killed his step father still hunts him.

2-They're useful and won't kill you cause they need allies, too.

3-As long as he's the leader, he can prevent them from doing really nasty things.

Jaxsbudgie

Plus they're wanting to know why their organisation, the Zhentarim, are being blamed for the iron crisis, so you both have a common goal in mind.

BelgarathMTH

@DJKajuru, LOL, mumber 3 is the same rationalization used by Roy Greenhilt, the protagonist of the Order of the Stick webcomic, for keeping Belkar, the chaotic evil halfling ranger/barbarian in his "good" party that wants to save the world.

There is a running joke in the comic about Belkar's relationship with the rest of his party. He clearly states in many, many storylines that he is considering betraying everybody in the strip on a whim, just because it would be more fun to do so in that situation. Yet, as a plot device, there is always some reason to "go on a killing spree", that keeps him interested and still part of Roy's party.

DJKajuru

belgarathmth said:

@DJKajuru, LOL, mumber 3 is the same rationalization used by Roy Greenhilt, the protagonist of the Order of the Stick webcomic, for keeping Belkar, the chaotic evil halfling ranger/barbarian in his "good" party that wants to save the world.

There is a running joke in the comic about Belkar's relationship with the rest of his party. He clearly states in many, many storylines that he is considering betraying everybody in the strip on a whim, just because it would be more fun to do so in that situation. Yet, as a plot device, there is always some reason to "go on a killing spree", that keeps him interested and still part of Roy's party.

Motivation for keeping xzar and monty ----> 60%!!!

Oxford_Guy

belgarathmth said:

@DJKajuru, LOL, mumber 3 is the same rationalization used by Roy Greenhilt, the protagonist of the Order of the Stick webcomic, for keeping Belkar, the chaotic evil halfling ranger/barbarian in his "good" party that wants to save the world.

There is a running joke in the comic about Belkar's relationship with the rest of his party. He clearly states in many, many storylines that he is considering betraying everybody in the strip on a whim, just because it would be more fun to do so in that situation. Yet, as a plot device, there is always some reason to "go on a killing spree", that keeps him interested and still part of Roy's party.

"What needs you dead?"

DJKajuru

Alright , you have convinced me - My party consists of Me (Bard) , Imoen, Monty, Xzar, Viconia and the I'll swap the sixth one so I can do their side quests. 'Sides, monty's stealth has been quite helpful!

Lemernis

Monty is a pretty darn good little backstabber too. If you use him ranged he does well with a crossbow, also.

DJKajuru

I heard that in the novel they are killed by sarevok ...nice twist!

elminster

Lemernis said:

Monty is a pretty darn good little backstabber too. If you use him ranged he does well with a crossbow, also.

It is possible the developers will switch him over to the sling given he is a halfling. I mean I suppose anything is possible. But his original proficiency was in missile weapons, so not just crossbows.

DJKajuru

elminster said:

Lemernis said:

Monty is a pretty darn good little backstabber too. If you use him ranged he does well with a crossbow, also.

It is possible the developers will switch him over to the sling given he is a halfling. I mean I suppose anything is possible. But his original proficiency was in missile weapons, so not just crossbows.

He's mean enough to handle crossbows !

Oxford_Guy

Lemernis said:

Monty is a pretty darn good little backstabber too. If you use him ranged he does well with a crossbow, also.

Yes, when I play Monty I put him in the Shadow Armour and Boots of Stealth and put all his initial thieving points into hide shadow/move silently and use him as my main scout and for backstabbing duties. If backstabbing doesn't look useful for an upcoming encounter I've scouted out, I put him in plate and have him using his sling (which he gets the +1 THAC0 halfling bonus for) or entering straight melee, as required. I hope I don't have to drop him, if taking Dorn...