Which class combo would you choose for a two-member party?

Rik_Kirtaniya

( Note: This poll is with reference to the IE games, namely the BG saga and IWD.)

It's very evident that the most "basic" classes are the Fighter, the Mage, the Cleric (or Druid, as you like), and the Thief. Of course, it is possible to do a play-through without any one or two (or even three or all four) of these classes. However, I plan to do a two-member party play-through (in both the BG saga and IWD) and wanted to incorporate all of these four classes within two multi-classed (or dual-classed) characters. That's really interesting, but, there are several possible combinations, each with their pros and cons. Which combo do you think is the most optimum and powerful, and why?

(If you prefer a combo different from the options given, please state it.)

FinneousPJ

Why not list more options?

FMT & FMC is my answer

Rik_Kirtaniya

FinneousPJ said:

Why not list more options?

Actually, I'd thought about adding more options later, but it seems poll options cannot be edited after they've been posted for the first time.

That's why I later wrote at the end:

Rik_Kirtaniya said:

(If you prefer a combo different from the options given, please state it.)

lroumen

Druid for sure. I never play without one.

But actually, did you consider a ranger cleric?
Also, with respect to each other I would only consider druid single and due to progression

Pantalion

If there's a requirement that all four core concepts must be covered, Cleric/Ranger // Mage/Thief.

Cleric/Ranger with the "fix" disabled gets the best divine spell selection in the game and is a capable early game combatant and solid late game mage/archer disabler.

Illusionist/Thief is one of the best arcane spellcaster characters in the game and is a phenomenal late game tank and extremely solid all around combatant.

Both can stealth past encounters, their gear selection has very little overlap and includes most of the best weapons in the trilogy.

tbone1

I would go for a mage/thief (possibly illusionist/thief) and either a cavalier or dwarven defender. I like clerics — I find myself playing them more and more as time goes on — but I’m not entirely certain they are that necessary.

Contemplative_Hamster

tbone1 said:

I would go for a mage/thief (possibly illusionist/thief) and either a cavalier or dwarven defender. I like clerics — I find myself playing them more and more as time goes on — but I’m not entirely certain they are that necessary.

Please expand on this - how do you play if you don't have a cleric for healing and buffing?

ThacoBell

F/M/T always holds a special place in my heart, being an old favorite from way back when. This one character can handle just about everything the game throws at you, and the backup druid will throw bees around to cover what the F/M/T can't.

gorgonzola

also my choice would have been fmc and fmt.to not be able to cast lev 9 spells is an hard cost but you can survive to it and have 2 characters able to fight and to cast, utter versatility.
r/c and thief/illusionist is also really strong.
i did chose Fighter/Mage and Cleric/Thief even if i love the potential of M/C because a fighter with arcane spellcasting has incredible tanking capability while being a strong damage dealer. C/T is also very strong and versatile, backstabs with a longer lasting kai (RM), buffs for fighting, cheap clerical spells to go invisible and backstab and later FoA + Crom to hit hard as a fighter and more, even if with less apr. proficiences for C/T staves, flails, hammers, sling and DW, crom's thac0 benefit combined with the good clerical Thac0 make possible to DW with no problem.

semiticgoddess

Wizard Slayer(7)->Druid to neutralize mages and Fighter/Illusionist to tank everyone else.

Raduziel

Contemplative_Hamster said:

tbone1 said:

I would go for a mage/thief (possibly illusionist/thief) and either a cavalier or dwarven defender. I like clerics — I find myself playing them more and more as time goes on — but I’m not entirely certain they are that necessary.

Please expand on this - how do you play if you don't have a cleric for healing and buffing?

Regeneration, healing potions, temples.

gorgonzola

is maybe 3 years that i don't use clerics for healing, i play only bg2 and before it can be different, i also rarely use temples. if i really have to heal someone fast in battle the wand of resurrection is way better, it works at range, no casting time and can be recharged selling it and buying it back. in most of my runs i don't have to recharge it as i use it only when really needed, when i have to save someone that can not retreat or avoid further damage in any way.

on each level the cleric has healing spells he has other spells way more useful.

Contemplative_Hamster

Healing, sure. There are ways around that of you don't mind a lot of travel time back to temples and srinking lots of potions. But what about buffs? How do you manage without Chaotic Commands, Bless, Protection from Evil 10', Prayer, and so on?

semiticgoddess

Chaotic Commands is great, but there are other ways to handle it. If you can get your saving throws in the negatives, you can shrug off everything that Chaotic Commands would otherwise block!

Well, except for Maze, since it offers no saving throw. You'd need MR or spell protections to block it.

And except for the Ulitharid's Psionic Blast, which has a -4 save penalty and even subzero saving throws won't necessarily guarantee a successful save.

Same goes for Demon Fear, which also has a -4 save penalty. Plus Psionic Maze. And lots of other things.

And Implosion also offers no saving throw, and unlike Maze, it bypasses MR. So you'd need spell protections or Free Action for that one.

Also, if you're playing with SCS, enemy mages can penalize your saving throws with Greater Malison, so you might need a potion to get your saves back into the negatives.

Of course, potions can be easily dispelled by SCS mages, while Chaotic Commands by a cleric is often very high-level and is much harder to dispel.

And not all classes can reach subzero saving throws without save-boosting potions, and those potions don't last long and are very finite in number. So you'd kind of have to know in advance exactly what kind of disablers you'd be facing and you'd need to make a judgment call about whether the potion was worth, and if things went poorly, you couldn't flee the combat and return later without wasting that precious potion.

So Chaotic Commands isn't strictly necessary. There are other ways to shrug off disablers. But it is really, really good, because it lasts for ages, it covers practically everything, it's hard to dispel, and you don't have to use up limited resources to cast it.

DrakeICN

Mage/thief is an inferior combo because of low thaco!!!

Rik_Kirtaniya

I think in this way, both of them can get access to heavy armour if required (and otherwise wear robes for arcane spell casting and leather armour for stealth). The Cleric buffing spells (Holy Power and Righteous Magic) will improve the otherwise poor THAC0 and maximize backstab damage, and Sanctuary can prove helpful in stealing things. Timestop + Greater Whirlwind for the F/M is very powerful, though one would be missing the Mislead + Backstab of M/T (which I personally don't exploit anyways); still a fair trade, in my opinion.

FMT and FMC would undoubtedly be the most powerful, but it feels bad to not be able to cast high level spells as often as one could otherwise with two-class multi-classes. Also the extremely slow progression bothers me a bit (in spite of it being said that the slow and steady win the race).

tbone1

Contemplative_Hamster said:

tbone1 said:

I would go for a mage/thief (possibly illusionist/thief) and either a cavalier or dwarven defender. I like clerics — I find myself playing them more and more as time goes on — but I’m not entirely certain they are that necessary.

Please expand on this - how do you play if you don't have a cleric for healing and buffing?

Buffing isn't as huge a deal as you might think. The cavalier and dwarves defender come with a decent kit setup, the Bhaalspawn powers help, and the mage can add to that if needed. If you need more healing/curing, there are plenty of potions available. Granted, bad luck happens, but you could say that about any party setup. Doing this does force me to focus on strategy and tactics, but that's a choice I make.

Having said all that, I do think clerics are better than their reputation, if you know the spells and how to use them. The Cleric/Fighter and Cleric/Ranger and darn good options, too, because there seems to be a lot of synergy between the classes.

tbone1

And might I say that the Inquisitor is not a bad option, either? I find the cavalier to be better overall, but there are some tough enemies that an inqisitor can simply rip through. As always, it depends on your preferences and playing style

DrakeICN

A think a two party combo of Inquisitor and Jester would be quite interesting. Imoen would make a great Jester, would she not, after some keepering about.


Arrrrghhh no restartitis!!! Have mercy, I just made it all the way to werewolf island... nnoooooeeeeuuuurrrgghhhh!!!

gorgonzola

Fighter/Cleric and Mage/Thief make possible to hide in shadows all the party all day long, if the mage spend enough skill points in it.
it is not an huge advantage, as both mage and cleric have spells to go invisible, but for some playsiyles, like divide and conquer, is a really useful feature. run behind a corner and hide, as many times you like each day, the enemy following you will stand still right near the point where you disappeared as you go to lure an other one behind an other corner. the invisibility spells are on top, to disappear anyway if hiding fails the check or to disappear when you are spotted. the M/T if hasted can backstab twice in a single round.

is not the most powerful choice, but it can be great fun if someone likes to set himself the conditions of a fight, using invisibility to divide enemies or to attack them from the point he likes, and likes rogue tactics to backstab or to waste enemy spells, stand at a step from mage's field of view limit and as he cast run away and hide, every not aoe spell is lost.