Landrin's Antidotes and the Importance of Charisma

Rik_Kirtaniya

I mostly play with highly charismatic Elven or Human Fighter/Mages or Sorcerers. This time, I thought I would do a bit different, and decided to play with a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric, and I can notice some subtle differences in NPC interactions. Last time when I played with a 18 charisma Elven F/M, everyone was behaving very nicely with him, but now with my 16 charisma dwarven F/C (who's still pretty charismatic for a dwarf), some NPCs seem to be somewhat grumpy and not-so-nice.

When I took Landrin's Spider Infestation quest the previous time (with the charismatic Elven F/M), she gave me 6 bottles of antidotes in the beginning of the quest, but I didn't get them this time (with the dwarven F/C). Is it because of his mediocre charisma (I can't say 16 is poor) or just because he's a dwarf? I was also wondering if it is due to his having the cleric class (which has the Slow Poison spell, though you can't get it that early). Can someone verify this and share their own experiences?

Another thing I noticed was that Hull gave Charname (Elf) about 50 gold for fetching his sword the previous time and was very happy, but now he just gave Charname (Dwarf) 10 gold and said "Gorion's a fool for trying to bring you up...". Now, that's really disappointing since I'm role-playing, and not just power-gaming.

I also wonder if it would help if I could get the stat tome and raise his charisma to 17. Any other suggestions?

BelgarathMTH

I'm pretty sure the only charisma that makes any difference with NPC interactions, other than merchant prices, is 18. I know of Landrin's antidotes (requires 18 charisma), and a guy in the barracks in Candlekeep who gives you a Dagger +1 (requires 18 charisma). There's also a guy upstairs at the Friendly Arms Inn who will clue you in to the Ring of Wizardry outside under that pine tree, but only if you have (you guessed it) 18 charisma.

It's one of the flaws of this game that stats aren't very meaningful until they're 16 or over. Charisma is arguably the worst offender, requiring an 18 before it has much of an effect on anything. There's a reason a lot of people make it a dump stat.

In my early days of playing, I ran a lot of cleric-mages with a charisma of 3, with no noticeable effect on my game. (I was probably paying higher prices in the stores, but I didn't know it and it didn't matter. I also always grouped up with like alignments, and I thought Khalid's having constant morale breaks was normal.)

Rik_Kirtaniya

@BelgarathMTH, so it means I must either have exactly 18 charisma or keep it to a minimum value, that is, any intermediate values are useless for NPC interactions (not considering store prices)?

BelgarathMTH said:

...and I thought Khalid's having constant morale breaks was normal.)

You mean it isn't normal? (Khalid is not the most courageous sort, but I didn't know that he has morale breaks more often than others! Still, I like him. He's very funny.)

sarevok57

actually, this is how it goes down (if im not mistaken):
in Candlekeep you indeed need 18 CHA to get 20 GP from Hull or the dagger +1 from fuller

but outside Candlekeep you start making reaction adjustment rolls and there are 3 results: negative, normal, postive

so if you roll the "positive" reaction, that is when you get the cool results ( like the 6 antidotes, or the scroll of protection from undead from the girl at the waterfall ect... )

now the game says it makes a roll between 8-12 and then adds your reaction adjustment score, but rumor has it that the game actually just rolls 10 and adds your reaction adjustment to that ( hence the reason why 18 CHA will usually always give you the positive reaction since you need to roll a 15 to get a positive reaction)

this can be useful to know because reputation also affects your reaction roll as well, the higher your REP the higher your reaction bonus, the lower your REP the lower higher your reaction penalty

so if you have a low REP you are really going to want some high CHA to make up for it ( with 19 CHA providing a +8 bonus or 21 CHA providing a +10 bonus )

so since your CHA is 16 either A- that isn't high enough to get the "positive" reactions from NPCs if the game rolls the arbitrary "10" or B- 16 is just barely high enough to sometimes get a positive reaction when you hit "12"

CamDawg

The reaction bonuses from CHR and rep aren't straight linear bonuses, though. 16 (or 17) CHR is a +3 bonus while 18 is +4, so @Rik_Kirtaniya shouldn't be seeing that much of a dropoff especially if his reputation is good to compensate. It could just be bad rolls.

Hull's an outlier--it's almost all a charisma-based reaction since rep bonuses don't kick in until it reaches 13.

Rik_Kirtaniya

@sarevok57 and @CamDawg
Thanks for your insights. I'm playing with a Neutral Good charname and a good aligned party, and hope to increase my reputation as fast as possible (at the moment it's 12 or 13). I hope that will make people react in a better way to my Dwarven F/C.

sarevok57

the REP bonuses start at 14 which gives a +1 bonus, when you have 20 REP it gives you a +4 bonus, there is a cloak of CHA +2 that can be found real early if ya want:

go to feldpost's inn in beregost, go to the second floor, and there is a fat man who's name starts with "A" algernon or something i believe, if you have 50% in pick pockets you can pick pocket his cloak

Rik_Kirtaniya

sarevok57 said:

the REP bonuses start at 14 which gives a +1 bonus, when you have 20 REP it gives you a +4 bonus, there is a cloak of CHA +2 that can be found real early if ya want:

go to feldpost's inn in beregost, go to the second floor, and there is a fat man who's name starts with "A" algernon or something i believe, if you have 50% in pick pockets you can pick pocket his cloak

Yeah, I absolutely forgot about that cloak! Thanks for mentioning it, @sarevok57!

Necromanx2

Low charisma can have negative impacts. For example, the halfling in Beregost with the boots you can find, will leave instead of giving you his quest if your charisma is too low.

ThacoBell

High Charisma also helps prevent morale breaks in party members.

CamDawg

sarevok57 said:

now the game says it makes a roll between 8-12 and then adds your reaction adjustment score, but rumor has it that the game actually just rolls 10 and adds your reaction adjustment to that ( hence the reason why 18 CHA will usually always give you the positive reaction since you need to roll a 15 to get a positive reaction)

One of the benefits of the bluclear gradient is that I can just ask... and it is, indeed, a fixed value of 10 plus CHR and rep modifiers. Looks like it was going to be 2d10 base, but that part was commented out.

sarevok57 said:

the REP bonuses start at 14 which gives a +1 bonus, when you have 20 REP it gives you a +4 bonus, there is a cloak of CHA +2 that can be found real early if ya want:

I stand corrected; rep bonuses start at 14, not 13. Here are the rep bonus and CHR bonus tables, if anyone wants to get to the actual numbers. These translate into reaction scores; generally FRIENDLY_LOWER (15) or better is the trigger for the best quest rewards and nice townsfolk reactions, but it does vary.

Nimran

ThacoBell said:

High Charisma also helps prevent morale breaks in party members.

It can also prolong the time it takes for in-party conflicts to start.

sarevok57

Nimran said:

ThacoBell said:

High Charisma also helps prevent morale breaks in party members.

It can also prolong the time it takes for in-party conflicts to start.

is there something that can back this claim up? i've heard about this for years, and although it's hard for me to confirm because 9999 times out of 10000 my character in front always has high CHA

is there a .2da file or some such, or is this a hard coded infinity engine thing

Frakas

@BelgarathMTH who does clue you about the ring ?
I did not find him even with a 18 charisma character

BelgarathMTH

Frakas said:

@BelgarathMTH who does clue you about the ring ?
I did not find him even with a 18 charisma character

He was on the third floor. It's possible it was from the NPC Project or an NPC mod I've forgotten. Or maybe his script is looking at some other stat. It was a long time ago, and I've never bothered talking to all the NPC's in the FAI again.

He didn't specifically say what it was. He just said something like, "I was taking a walk outside yesterday, and I thought I saw something shiny under a tree, but I was afraid of bandits and hobgoblins, so I came back in."

Frakas

I think it is from a mod, in my unmodded game there are only liandrin and the golden pantaloon guy on the third floor

CamDawg

Baldurdash did it. The text update added hints for the hidden items, e.g. the suicidal fop outside of Candlekeep mentions he hid a diamond in a tree.

tbone1

CamDawg said:

Baldurdash did it. The text update added hints for the hidden items, e.g. the suicidal fop outside of Candlekeep mentions he hid a diamond in a tree.

I am calling my next album “Suicidal Fop”.

UnderstandMouseMagic

Just to add in Candlekeep Inn.

With 18 cha, when you talk to the nobles in the kitchen downstairs, you can persuade them to put all their valubles in the chest with the star sapphire (or is it diamond?) upstairs. So when you lockpick/open it, you get extra goodies.