Will Blackguards "fall" if their reputation goes to high?

Oxford_Guy

The new BGEE manuals say that Blackguards can't "fall" and that their party can have "reputation as low as they desire", but logically shouldn't they lose their special abilities if their parties reputation goes to high? It sounds like this is not implemented, but it would make sense if they did, as surely they would lose their evil god's favour?

Shin

That would actually be sort of funny. The temptation to be kind and noble just became too much for the poor blackguard.

RogueRob

wouldn't that make them ascended?

moody_mage

It's an interesting twist I guess no-one thought of yet...

Mornmagor

This could make sense, or not, depending on how you view it.

It would make sense for mechanical or balance(bleh whatever) reasons to have them fall at 15+ rep.

However, some times villains like Blackguards, especially if Lawful or Neutral Evil, would maybe prefer to pose as heroes, create a name for themselves, and then reign havoc upon the unsuspecting.

Saying that, according to the manual, they don't fall at all, unless it was an oversight, along with the Level Drain and Fear immunities they forgot to mention. But it's pretty big, so i think it's safe to assume they don't fall.

After all it says that Blackguards won't have to worry about falling, even if it continues like "they can be as evil as they want". I assume they would mention that they fall at high rep.

Concluding, it makes sense if they fall at high rep, and it also makes sense if they don't fall, if you consider the above.

Tanthalas

When Blackguards were added to the beta they did fall at low reputations.

Mornmagor

At low? o_O

Mechalibur

Mornmagor said:

At low? o_O

Well, they are a paladin kit, so it could have been a simple oversight :P

Anyway, the manual says that paladins lose their abilities at low reputation, with the exception of the Blackguard kit. I would think that if Blackguards lost their powers at high rep, it would have been mentioned there. But then again, the manual has a few mistakes in it, so that certainly isn't absolute proof that they can't fall (or rise, I guess? Whatever)

Jalily

Blackguards won't fall at any reputation.

Quartz

Mechalibur said:

Mornmagor said:

At low? o_O

Well, they are a paladin kit, so it could have been a simple oversight :P

Yes, that was @Tanthalas ' point I believe. Hilarious initial oversight that was probably fixed very quickly. =P

Tanthalas

First time they fixed it Paladins and Rangers stopped falling too!

Djonne

So I'll be able to pick Dorn along with my paladin and act all good up to a rep of 20?

Quartz

Djonne said:

So I'll be able to pick Dorn along with my paladin and act all good up to a rep of 20?

It's pretty easy to say he'll ditch when you hit 19 like any other Evil character. But yeah, likely you can be heroic and awesome with an 18 rep and all you will have to deal with is Dorn's whining. Heh.

Shin

Jalily said:

Blackguards won't fall at any reputation.

Shame, shame.. it would have been pretty awesome. Still, I'm hoping the writers were creative about the "social disadvantages" of having Dorn around.

Mornmagor

Djonne said:

So I'll be able to pick Dorn along with my paladin and act all good up to a rep of 20?

@Djonne, yes.

But after a while it will only be you, he won't like it

Djonne

Yes I forgot evil npc leave at 19+.

But still, this is ridiculous. Maybe he should be allowed to act good for an hidden evil purpose but not up to the the point of being one of THE heroes of the region, don't you think?

O_Bruce

Dorn Il-Khan: The Dark Blackguard Rises

Funny, jet important matter is discussed here. Since blackguards are dedicated in doing evil, they should suffer some pentalies for discarding their path in life. Then again, "fallen blackguard" is kind of funny - like there is some temptation in doing good to resist. It's just difficult to imagine someone utterly evil to "fall".

Shin

You could call them redeemed blackguards.

Jalily

I like that. But what if they, er, "fall" again? Would they get their powers back?

Velkir

I remember games where druids lost there powers if they ever got out of neutral.blackguards being the evil equivalent of Paladins would make sense as there no longer follow there gods doctrine...that is if they also are holy(unholy?)warriors

PhillipDaigle

Blackguards aren't necessarily granted their powers by a god, but rather by an 'outsider' of some sort acts as their patron. This could be a dark god, but more often it's a Baatezu or Demon of some sort.

In the case of the PC, we sort of gloss over whom their patron is, much in the same way that Talos doesn't particularly matter to a Priest of Talos character.

Mornmagor

My patron will be Morte, the talking skull.

Aristillius

Well, are they dedicated to create evil neccessarily? From what ive gathered they can also be said to be dedicated to empower themselves and their god through any means neccessary. Wheter that means saving a town or slaughtering innocents that doesnt really matter - hence evil - disregard for other people.

Chaotic evil now... That is another story

edited for spelling

RedGuard

RogueRob said:

wouldn't that make them ascended?

'Ascended Blackguard' would make a nice name for an anti-Blackguard kit.

PhillipDaigle said:

Blackguards aren't necessarily granted their powers by a god, but rather by an 'outsider' of some sort acts as their patron. This could be a dark god, but more often it's a Baatezu or Demon of some sort.

In the case of the PC, we sort of gloss over whom their patron is, much in the same way that Talos doesn't particularly matter to a Priest of Talos character.

Sounds like a good basis for a story with a Blackguard as a personal agent for a demon or some other being from an infernal dimension.

shawne

I'm calling it: Dorn has been empowered by Cespenar.

Ascerion

Shin said:

That would actually be sort of funny. The temptation to be kind and noble just became too much for the poor blackguard.

It happened to Cecil.

lakrids

I thought about the npc character Fallen From Grace, when I read this

SharGuidesMyHand

On a related note, does anyone know if there are any race restrictions for blackguards? (seeing as paladins are restricted to being humans).

Dee

Blackguards are paladins, so they are restricted to just humans.

Dorn's just special like that.

SharGuidesMyHand

Mornmagor said:

This could make sense, or not, depending on how you view it.

It would make sense for mechanical or balance(bleh whatever) reasons to have them fall at 15+ rep.

However, some times villains like Blackguards, especially if Lawful or Neutral Evil, would maybe prefer to pose as heroes, create a name for themselves, and then reign havoc upon the unsuspecting.

Not only that, but when you think about it, the idea of someone "following the evil path" kind of sounds silly IMO, since one of the fundamental aspects of being evil is that the char doesn't actually have a set "path" - they do what they want, when they want. Thus, someone who is evil might still carry out "heroic" deeds, but just not for the specific purpose of being heroic (i.e: for money or revenge instead). To place restrictions on what an evil char can and can't do sort of contradicts the notion of being evil IMO.

Syntia13

While it would be an amusing twist, keeping the evil players on their toes when rescuing cats and such, it is implausible for one reason, which can be summed up in four words: Villain with good publicity.
Just look at Sarevok. He is as evil as they come, rotten to the core, and yet

the public keeps him in such high regard that they were willing to make him a grand duke, for crying out loud.

If he can do it, then why not you, my blackguardy friend?