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Question about graphic updates ( Aribeth ) and the plans for future.

TwotricksTwotricks Member Posts: 20
edited February 2018 in General Discussions NWN:EE
During the first announcement of NWN:EE, developers stated that their plan was to improve the tools and enable modders to revamp the models. But at the time they have no plans of revamping/changing game models.

I personally seen this as a problematic, for several reasons ( i explained in older post ) and will not go back to it, because its not the point of this post.


However, yesterday to my big suprise the team revealed fantastic new model of Aribeth, and following statement:
New character models are coming to Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition! Lady Aribeth de Tylmarande is leading the charge on the new look. We are planning to update character models in steps as we move forward. After NWN:EE is released, you will continue getting updates with new character models.


What does this mean ? Exactly ?

Will all character models be updated ?
How about monster models ?
When will this happen ?
Will game be released with complete model revamp ? Or its something that will slowly happen over time ( and perhaps never complete )
If character models are revamped , than equipment must be re-done too ( in order to fit new models ) ?

There is also talk about new tiles that will be part of future expansion. Does this mean revamped models could potentially also be part of expansion ? ( With all the respect that would be kind of microtransaction for models - and something that would worry me on some level )

So to finish. I am excited and happy to see wonderful Aribeth model, and see that Beamdog are now open to model revamp.

But I would love to hear exact plans and explanation.




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Comments

  • cherryzerocherryzero Member Posts: 129
    They mentioned they would be rolling out revamps over time. It seems like character models are first up. I imagine everything after that will be done in chunks; monsters, placeables, etc.

    This is pure conjecture on my part but I would also guess, with the announcement of an updated blender and the fact that they seem to be working with the community, that what we do might affect what they do.

    Like suppose the community creates a really awesome weapons pack. It doesn't mean Beamdog will never do their own (especially since Trent seems to have a thing for weapon crafting both real and virtual) but it might prompt them to prioritize other things first.

    Or they could totally have it all mapped out and I'm completed wrong

  • tgxtgx Member Posts: 40
    I'm pretty sure most of your questions were answered at the time.

    They'll be working on improved models for important characters as they go. But, they're not holding back the release date to get them all in. They'll be released for free, as they're done. It could be many months after they release the game before most of the upgraded character models are available. At this stage, they don't know.

    But, what I'd like to know is if they'll texture the hair. I know it's still work-in-progress, so I do expect improvement. I really hope the hair mesh is able to deform and such with movement of the head, and that it looks like hair.

    Also, if I might add. I wasn't all that enamored by the face of the new Aribeth. I mean, it was OK, but it's not the face of a ravishing Elf. Or, she's now a half-elf or so? Even so, I got the impression that she was a beauty. So, I wouldn't really give that current face a pass, if that's what you're going for. It's not bad. Just not really what I'd picture for a fetching Elf.

    Still, if the current model is about the ideal you're aiming for, then that's fair enough. Just not really what I'd expect. Not as fetching as the original Aribeth, at least. Opinion, I know. But still.

  • TwotricksTwotricks Member Posts: 20
    edited February 2018
    tgx said:


    Also, if I might add. I wasn't all that enamored by the face of the new Aribeth. I mean, it was OK, but it's not the face of a ravishing Elf. Or, she's now a half-elf or so? Even so, I got the impression that she was a beauty. So, I wouldn't really give that current face a pass, if that's what you're going for. It's not bad. Just not really what I'd picture for a fetching Elf.

    This is really not the point. Whatever is done, some people will love it, some people will not, no matter how good or bad it is.

    What is important that its model, done professionally, with modern games quality.

    That is what makes me happy ...

    Atrophiederic
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,600
    The best bet would be to ask directly during the next stream.

    Right now Beamdog are getting feedback to the news.

    During the livestream it was said artists still work on Aribeth, so I'd suppose the face is not final.

    ZwerkulesDerpCityProont
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,250
    the face is great, and the whole model is very nice. good work

    if the timeframe for updating all of the models to this level is couple of years, i'd say that's pretty great

    JFKgrom56AtrophiedericJuliusBorisov
  • TwotricksTwotricks Member Posts: 20

    The best bet would be to ask directly during the next stream.

    Right now Beamdog are getting feedback to the news.

    Good idea. I will surely do that and hopefully get answer :)

    JuliusBorisov
  • SaintPhillipSaintPhillip Member Posts: 59
    Twotricks said:

    tgx said:


    Also, if I might add. I wasn't all that enamored by the face of the new Aribeth. I mean, it was OK, but it's not the face of a ravishing Elf. Or, she's now a half-elf or so? Even so, I got the impression that she was a beauty. So, I wouldn't really give that current face a pass, if that's what you're going for. It's not bad. Just not really what I'd picture for a fetching Elf.

    This is really not the point. Whatever is done, some people will love it, some people will not, no matter how good or bad it is.

    What is important that its model, done professionally, with modern games quality.

    That is what makes me happy ...
    Same- I love it.

    Plus its optional so anyone who doesnt could just not use the new model(s).

    Ive got to say though- I'm really hyped now.

    AtrophiedericProont
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 709
    On that other hand you could interpret it as they showed off some of the new graphics enhancements they've been working on rather than simply tileset and model improvements. Modders have those options now and Beamdog showed what can be done.

    If they hadn't improved a lot of the graphics such as adding the normal and specular mapping, the tangent thingy, and append/attach stuff, then maybe it wouldn't have looked as impressive. Another way to look at it then is that if they work on adding more features to the engine then the graphics can be improved even further allowing even better models and tiles than what they showed on Friday.

    This would also mean that even if Beamdog does decide to remake art assets and charge for new models of existing npcs then modders can still improve their own things for free.

    SaintPhillip
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,511
    @ShadowM is that what the new and improved model looks like?

  • SaintPhillipSaintPhillip Member Posts: 59
    Shadow- That looks awesome- Much 'softer' and more natural look imho. Cannot believe how quickly you kicked that out.

    And Madhatter- Dude, awesome stuff on the workshop-I was really pleased to see all of your stuff there and being able to install everything with a click made it even better. I'm beyond hyped at this point seeing how well everything is working and finding your over rides already there.

  • MadHatterMadHatter Member Posts: 145
    @SaintPhillip Per the titles and descriptions of the items I uploaded. @Savant1974 did the skyboxes, Cervantes compiled the creatures (most of the original authors have moved on), and @Zwerkules did the Facelift packs.

    They did amazing work. All I did was package it up for 1 click subscription on the Workshop. :)

  • HunterRayder93HunterRayder93 Member Posts: 265
    ShadowM said:

    It was a nice show of specular / Normal maps. Skinmesh models have been supported for awhile, but getting skinmesh to work with armor switch out is going to be a pain and that why I / other suggested and glad they are taking on the task. As for other static skinmesh models we been adding them for years and now we can go back and add the other maps to give them a little more pop. I already started to mess with the Aribeth model. Recolored the hair, brought down the specular map on the hair to take away the plastic look and will be changing it to have strands along the front like the original model. Will remove the skirt and add armored legs similar to the style.

    But the eye color is not green or brown?thinking a little bit about the Artwork and the Art Aribeth cover, it seems there has dark brown-green eyes.

    Proont
  • ReeRee Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1
    Looking nice there @ShadowM The original one is very much a work in progress so both textures and shaders are being worked on. Looking forward to see what you do with armored leggings.

    TheBarbarianJFK
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 709
    I feel a little bad for them. They do a tech demo showing what you can do with the new graphics options that they only released a week ago and now ppl even on other sites start judging the NWN art style.

    It's possible there will be more improvements and updates with new graphical options in the future. I think it has less to do with how the actual model looks.

  • ShadowMShadowM Member Posts: 416
    No, I love the style. I just thought it be fun to work with the model and do some testing out a work flow with nwnmax/blender. I have to get with @symmetric to update the nwnmax export script to add

    renderhint NormalAndSpecMapped
    texture0 aribeth_bc
    texture1 aribeth_n
    texture2 aribeth_s

    after every bitmap code(if it in the property of the object) of the mdl so do not have manual do it with notepad++ after doing work in nwnmax but other then that everything going good.
    Here some eye color changes, a little nose work and some hair work.

  • symmetricsymmetric Member Posts: 54
    edited February 2018
    You Rang? :)

    I'm currently in the process of adding support for tangent and normal export to neverblender. I should be done soon.
    If those values are missing from the model the engine will auto generate them. That might be slow or wrong (= lighting artifacts). But the Aribeth model doesn't seem to be affected by that, as far as I can tell.

    btw. don't use neverblender to do any meaningful work on Aribeth yet. There are some quirks which will be fixed with the next update.

    Post edited by symmetric on
    dunahan
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,250
    i want to see more updated models!

    sarevok57MrDamageProont
  • TheUncertainManTheUncertainMan Member Posts: 49
    bob_veng said:

    i want to see more updated models!

    Patience child.
    All in good time.

    Atrophiederic
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 317
    It's a good question though. Will the March 27 release have none of the new assets? Mixing old and new assets would look really weird. So they can't really market the game with the awesome new screenshots if the assets aren't used in any actual module.

    Are they now planning to redo all assets? What's the master plan here?

  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 709
    They answered this in the last stream when someone asked if they would overhaul the graphics by the summer they nervously laughed and caught their breath and then explained it would take much longer than that and they weren't sure what they would update and what they would leave as is.

  • JFKJFK Member Posts: 177
    You know, I wonder if there's a bit of confusion on the use of the term 'content'. I know I'm a bit confused, or at least unsure of what people mean by it in some cases.
    For example, on the stream, the idea of 'new content' in the OC could mean adding additional quests, additional areas, weapons, NPCs, backgrounds, interactions, etc.
    I think that's the stuff @TrentOster has said he's not that keen on doing?

    Or, it could mean graphical updates to existing tilesets, placeables, etc.

    Like the updated Aribeth model, the promise of updated character models, and the updated Hall of Justice. If that stuff's going in, the OCs will be 'updated', graphically.

    For a while, I kept thinking of the word content only in graphic assets like models, textures, etc. Now, I realize some people aren't necessarily asking for that, they're asking for NEW content like sidequests, expanded NPC relationships, etc.

    You know, this game offers a lot of chances to misunderstand a term. "Content" is only one example.

    -JFK


    Atrophiederic
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 709
    When it comes to content in terms of what the Russian community wanted it was extra side quests, improved story, finishing unfinished content, and romances.

    Some instead ask for new art assets, though there is a trend where the request has little regard with preserving things like customization and other details where NWN excels. In that sense there is a lot of similarity with the other kind of content as it relates only to a single player experience in the OC that lasts a finite number of hours, and has little to no application outside of that scope.

    This discussion is about the art assets, which they are still figuring out, so they're not going to pump out thousands of models by March 27.

    JFKAtrophiederic
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 935

    They answered this in the last stream when someone asked if they would overhaul the graphics by the summer they nervously laughed and caught their breath and then explained it would take much longer than that and they weren't sure what they would update and what they would leave as is.

    Oh Lord help me. They said one time they are going to redo everything, audio included, now it's choice time?

  • TawmisTawmis Member Posts: 97
    So - my question was the character models also - and when I look at all the screen shots on the site (in the gallery section) and the video - everything looks like the original models.

  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 709
    To be fair they did not say they would redo everything and confirm it, much of that is due to individuals filling in the blanks or not considering everything they have said. I try to pay attention and stick to what people actually say, consider the context, and consider their position as creators, and I find that I'm very rarely disappointed or surprised.

    Atrophiederic
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 935

    To be fair they did not say they would redo everything and confirm it, much of that is due to individuals filling in the blanks or not considering everything they have said. I try to pay attention and stick to what people actually say, consider the context, and consider their position as creators, and I find that I'm very rarely disappointed or surprised.

    That's deliberate misleading, if we have to wait for confirmation about everything. Shall we start second-guessing every statement?

  • TawmisTawmis Member Posts: 97
    Also - we've seen a remodeled Aribeth (even on this thread) - but nothing else indicates anything about any character models having gone through any update (again in their screenshots and video preview). You'd think (or I would, if I was them) - I'd be show casing the more up to date graphics/models. Because that might be a deciding factor for some people.

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