Pathfinder Kingmaker do exactly the opposite, you can be anything, even an Aasimar Sorcerer with Abbyssal bloodline
Did you know that you can have two different heritages if you start off as a Sorc/ES with a non-draconic heritage and then multiclass into Dragon Disciple, so you could play a human/celestial/infernal/dragon?
Sadly, choosing the LE way makes him unavailable as an artisan to you. The same pretty much happens with Tsanna and a couple other artisans as well. It is mind boggling that the game specificly forces you to break your baron's character for recruiting people.
It gets worse near the end with your companions and the choices you made with them. A shame, because in a lot of other spots, the game rewards evil behavior, and good is the more difficult choice.
I think that the summon monster from good is better than evil. But the game is much more easy and interesting on evil. I played on my sec playtrough as evil until i reached lv 12 then started to take good decisions and not at lv 15 my undead sorc is good...
One more thing about games who forces you to play on melee. I loved Gothic, mainly Gothic 3 because you can start the game with bows and learn magic in less than half of hour but Risen i hated, why? Piranha Bytes forces you to play on melee for a long time and theyr melee combat ****. The guy takes almost 5 seconds dancing battlet to do an overswing cut, you have pistols/crossbows to use until you get magic? Yes but can you guess the effective range of this weapons? Melee range(i can easily hit targets at 50m with a crossbow IRL) and only hit on arround 55% of times. They are only useful because is faster to draw a pistol, fire and guard the pistol than to do the long ballet choreography before an sword strike. I downloaded an save after you joined the mages and finally managed to enjoy Risen 3 only because it...
Pathfinder Kingmaker do exactly the opposite, you can be anything, even an Aasimar Sorcerer with Abbyssal bloodline, can choose anything from start. Stat, class, race, alignment, etc. This is how RPG's should be. The unique RPG with fix protagonist who i wanna play is Vampyr... And even Vampyr will be much better if you can choose everything on your MC.
Got to say, I was excited for Vampyr, got a few hours in, and just felt like a chore to play, long conversations with whiny people I generally didn't care about.
I'm closing in on finishing it up with my duelist. Having done the melee route, I think I'm going to give sorcerer a go next. Still leaning towards an infernal, lots of destructive and mind magic. I'll be taking a full party, so I'm less concerned about summons, but still may take some. Probably human, not sure if I want to try and pump Charisma all the way up to 20, or spread things out a bit more. Dex, Con and Int would be nice to have for hitting with ranged touch attacks, hp and some skills. Probably go lawful evil, and force myself to take Jaethal, she did seem better once she had more spells. Probably long term I'll roll with Jaethal, Nok-Nok, Regongar, Valerie and Harrim.
DEX is very important if you wanna use ranged touch attack spells. I recommend 18 in that case, CON is good for survivability... Hellfire(best single target offensive spell in the game) is a ranged touch attack and i can't use this spell since i don't have high DEX(my DEX is 14). To be honest, my Finger of Death DC is 27 at moment(Baleful Polymorph from Belial have a DC of 28 - https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/archdevil/archdevil-belial/ ), and IMHO is much more reliable to deal massive damage(mostly OHK) than hellfire(i barely hit with hellfire, only wasted a spell)... I honestly think that depends if you wanna have good survivability/ranged touch attacks or good DC. Just remember to have at least 19 CHA on high levels or no tier 9 spells...
About Vampyr, i will probably purchase the game. I don't played a GOOD vampire RPG since VtMB. I know that will not be good as VtMB, will not have the same athmosfere, same in depth memorable characters, Jeanette, La Croix, Rodriguez, etc but at least will not be a boring game like Dark.
Pathfinder Kingmaker do exactly the opposite, you can be anything, even an Aasimar Sorcerer with Abbyssal bloodline
Did you know that you can have two different heritages if you start off as a Sorc/ES with a non-draconic heritage and then multiclass into Dragon Disciple, so you could play a human/celestial/infernal/dragon?
OMG... 4 different species blood into one person...
I'm closing in on finishing it up with my duelist. Having done the melee route, I think I'm going to give sorcerer a go next. Still leaning towards an infernal, lots of destructive and mind magic. I'll be taking a full party, so I'm less concerned about summons, but still may take some. Probably human, not sure if I want to try and pump Charisma all the way up to 20, or spread things out a bit more. Dex, Con and Int would be nice to have for hitting with ranged touch attacks, hp and some skills. Probably go lawful evil, and force myself to take Jaethal, she did seem better once she had more spells. Probably long term I'll roll with Jaethal, Nok-Nok, Regongar, Valerie and Harrim.
I have tested a few sorcerer bloodlines and infernal doesn't seem to get any dc bonus to enchantments, making their bloodline ability useless, though. Neither do they get anything for destructive magic, like the draconic bloodlines. For mind magic either the serpentine, undead or fey (whose dc bonus works since they are compulsion spells in the game) have them beat.
So the charm school thing is still not working, I guess. They still get a lot of spells I want to take anyways. I did an eldritch scion/paladin/dragon disciple already, so don't want to do draconic. The idea of a lawful evil devil character appeals to me.
Hey, wanted to ask what others thought about the Research into Curses projects. Is it just me, or are they a completely useless time suck for your arcanist/high priest? They at most give a 1 or 2 point boost to 1 or 2 kingdom stats. In the 30-90 days it takes to resolve them, you could have dealt with a bunch of events and gotten way more out of your advisors than what the research projects give you.
I came to believe that the only real value to such Research projects is an indepth encyclopedia entry. Well, that and getting them off of your to-do card deck. Which almost always is cramped anyway. Improved stats are more of a bonus, probably.
I came to believe that the only real value to such Research projects is an indepth encyclopedia entry. Well, that and getting them off of your to-do card deck. Which almost always is cramped anyway. Improved stats are more of a bonus, probably.
That's what it seems like. I'm finally closing in on the end, so I guess I'll see if not doing most of them has any impact.
How about the region upgrades that say they have no impact? I only did a rebuild the fort one. Nothing seemed to come of it, so I've ignored the others.
At least they fixed the projects for levelling up your companions if you're not playing with xp sharing turned off. That was seriously annoying have a ton of cards you'd never use.
Hey, wanted to ask what others thought about the Research into Curses projects. Is it just me, or are they a completely useless time suck for your arcanist/high priest? They at most give a 1 or 2 point boost to 1 or 2 kingdom stats. In the 30-90 days it takes to resolve them, you could have dealt with a bunch of events and gotten way more out of your advisors than what the research projects give you.
Apparently if you research the curses enough you can get another ending.
On a side note, I'm back to waiting for more patches. One of the recent hotfixes broke my alchemist and now his bombs refresh every combat, which honestly feels like cheating.
Heh, lucky. My game bugged a bit, and I can't level my councilor or warden. Good thing I got my stability up to 7 before that happened. On some of the really hard checks with the warden, I've been save scumming, since it doesn't feel like cheating, since it bugged on me, and those are pretty much the most important kingdom checks.
If doing all the curses does affect the ending, I think I get an idea of what it might do.
If it does affect the ending, I think it must be to free Nyrissa from her curse by the Eldest. Seems awfully costly, though, since you'll lose out a ton of events for your arcanist/high priest.
What i really liked about P:K history is that you are not the "savior of the world", you are just an guy in a cursed land who is trying to solve curses and a cyclic destiny far above the humanity. Is a story that can make sense for an chaotic good MC and for a lawful evil MC.
Anyway, i wanna see an NWN-like game with the same in depth class, skills, mechanics of P:K; there are two things that i think that NWN should learn from P:K 1 - Not limit the summons to one creature. 2 - Not put "half implementations" like Arcane archer who can only imbue fire(can imbue other spells on PnP) and Dragon disciple that can only be red, not mention pale master being unable to get caster level.
Also i think that the Pathfinder sorc is far more interesting than sorc on D&D 3.0/3.5. Depending the bloodline, getting completely different abilities is amazing. Not mention, the custom modules and hakpaks that are not available on P:K and i like the more "greedy" graphics of NWN. I loved NWN so much that i have the disk, the gog non ee version, the steam ee and will probably purchase on gog only cuz is drm free.
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Anyway, almost lv 16. I hope that if my save bugs again, i become able to at least see the tier 9 spells
Jebus, I'm at the last dungeon. Think I might have to reload to before I set out, just to pick up some scrolls that are absolutely necessary to get through it. The difficulty spike gets really crazy. I feel like I've done absolutely everything, but am only level 16, nowhere near 17. One quest I couldn't complete because of bugs, but don't think it would matter xp wise enough to get me near a level up. I'm playing a full party with default normal settings.
Most of my kingdom's stats were up to 10, except for loyalty and stability, since those advisors would never show up in the throne room to talk so I couldn't do their next level ups. Espionage was only up to level 9. I did all the region upgrades, because I had plenty of time and BP in the last chapter. Nothing happened, it just closed that kingdom quest. Maybe it gave a small xp bump, nothing noticeable at this point, though. I had done all the projects that give you buffs while in your kingdom. There are 2 awesome projects you can get that halve the time to increase a kingdom stat or upgrade a region. I hadn't bothered with a few trade deals and some of the projects to decrease the cost of some of the buildings. Reg had a +32 to resolve situations, so you can get some sick numbers there.
Bring a ton of freedom of movement scrolls with you to the last dungeon. I thought I'd be fine with Harrim, but haven't been able to find him anywhere. Lots of stuff to combat blindness is handy as well restoration and greater restoration. I think it shouldn't be bad at all if I haul a bunch of those with me, this time. I've been pissing away gold, and still have a half million.
I'm pretty sure you are guaranteed to lose one particular companion. While not technically dead, they can't rejoin the party.
So far everyone I cared about besides the one I mentioned above has survived.
Jebus, I'm at the last dungeon. Think I might have to reload to before I set out, just to pick up some scrolls that are absolutely necessary to get through it. The difficulty spike gets really crazy. I feel like I've done absolutely everything, but am only level 16, nowhere near 17. One quest I couldn't complete because of bugs, but don't think it would matter xp wise enough to get me near a level up. I'm playing a full party with default normal settings.
Most of my kingdom's stats were up to 10, except for loyalty and stability, since those advisors would never show up in the throne room to talk so I couldn't do their next level ups. Espionage was only up to level 9. I did all the region upgrades, because I had plenty of time and BP in the last chapter. Nothing happened, it just closed that kingdom quest. Maybe it gave a small xp bump, nothing noticeable at this point, though. I had done all the projects that give you buffs while in your kingdom. There are 2 awesome projects you can get that halve the time to increase a kingdom stat or upgrade a region. I hadn't bothered with a few trade deals and some of the projects to decrease the cost of some of the buildings. Reg had a +32 to resolve situations, so you can get some sick numbers there.
Bring a ton of freedom of movement scrolls with you to the last dungeon. I thought I'd be fine with Harrim, but haven't been able to find him anywhere. Lots of stuff to combat blindness is handy as well restoration and greater restoration. I think it shouldn't be bad at all if I haul a bunch of those with me, this time. I've been pissing away gold, and still have a half million.
I'm pretty sure you are guaranteed to lose one particular companion. While not technically dead, they can't rejoin the party.
So far everyone I cared about besides the one I mentioned above has survived.
Wow, just like i was expecting. Is impossible to reach lv 20 without XP share disabled and small party. At least if no more DLC's come.
Honestly, do you think that my build will have a hard time on end game? Can i rest a lot on last dungeon?
Wow, just like i was expecting. Is impossible to reach lv 20 without XP share disabled and small party. At least if no more DLC's come.
Honestly, do you think that my build will have a hard time on end game? Can i rest a lot on last dungeon?
I didn't try resting, since I was trying to make those 2 scrolls last until I could find one of my companions. I'd assume so, since there is a vendor just outside that sells camping supplies, and you can go back out there if you need to. Summons might get destroyed or incapacitated pretty quickly, though.
It's ridiculous you can't hit the level 20 cap in the game with a full-party by doing ALL the side-content. I mean, come on, that is what side-quests are for. What is the point of a cap if it can't be reached?? This is what I have been fearing and why I haven't done anything besides the cursory stuff at the beginning. The entire thing feels like a massive alpha-test. The more I read, the more I feel like this game isn't even finished. It needed another 6 months of internal testing.
It's ridiculous you can't hit the level 20 cap in the game with a full-party by doing ALL the side-content. I mean, come on, that is what side-quests are for. What is the point of a cap if it can't be reached?? This is what I have been fearing and why I haven't done anything besides the cursory stuff at the beginning. The entire thing feels like a massive alpha-test. The more I read, the more I feel like this game isn't even finished. It needed another 6 months of internal testing.
It's ridiculous you can't hit the level 20 cap in the game with a full-party by doing ALL the side-content. I mean, come on, that is what side-quests are for. What is the point of a cap if it can't be reached?? This is what I have been fearing and why I haven't done anything besides the cursory stuff at the beginning. The entire thing feels like a massive alpha-test. The more I read, the more I feel like this game isn't even finished. It needed another 6 months of internal testing.
DLC obviously.
True enough, but with Pillars of Eternity the DLC was always known to be in the pipe-line, the Kingmaker DLC at this point is a total mystery.
It's ridiculous you can't hit the level 20 cap in the game with a full-party by doing ALL the side-content. I mean, come on, that is what side-quests are for. What is the point of a cap if it can't be reached?? This is what I have been fearing and why I haven't done anything besides the cursory stuff at the beginning. The entire thing feels like a massive alpha-test. The more I read, the more I feel like this game isn't even finished. It needed another 6 months of internal testing.
Throne of bhaal has an unreachable XP Cap if you've got a party of six. IWD+expansions has an unreachable XP Cap with a party of six, even Ps:T has an unreachable XP Cap with a party of six.
It's ridiculous you can't hit the level 20 cap in the game with a full-party by doing ALL the side-content. I mean, come on, that is what side-quests are for. What is the point of a cap if it can't be reached?? This is what I have been fearing and why I haven't done anything besides the cursory stuff at the beginning. The entire thing feels like a massive alpha-test. The more I read, the more I feel like this game isn't even finished. It needed another 6 months of internal testing.
I don't feel that way at all. I don't think you need to be that high of level to get through the game, but it lets somebody who wants to have a smaller party get up to a level where they can be on par with a larger party of lower level characters. Like Deltago said, it leaves room for DLC, without having to add in stuff for doing epic levels, but continue to advance.
@SorcererV1ct0r you can rest as much as you want in the final dungeon. Turns out it was a bug preventing me from finding one companion. I re-entered after today's patch and found them right away. They also fixed the warden getting stuck and not being able to level up. I found an XP exploit, too. I'm not taking advantage of it, though. I've sent in the details to owlcat.
Agreed, in an ideal world, the level cap should never be reachable.
It is a major flaw in PoE: Deadfire that you can reach the level cap well before the end, even before DLC was added. Progression is a critical part of an RPG, hitting level cap = no more progression = game over.
Agreed, in an ideal world, the level cap should never be reachable.
It is a major flaw in PoE: Deadfire that you can reach the level cap well before the end, even before DLC was added. Progression is a critical part of an RPG, hitting level cap = no more progression = game over.
The first part of this post is sooooo very wrong. The second post is spot on accurate.
Agreed, in an ideal world, the level cap should never be reachable.
It is a major flaw in PoE: Deadfire that you can reach the level cap well before the end, even before DLC was added. Progression is a critical part of an RPG, hitting level cap = no more progression = game over.
Well said. Unfortunately on most modern """rpg"""(put on quotes cuz most mmo and some mmo like arpg like d3 aren't rpg IMO), level cap means nothing. Reach level cap is starting the game and in this games there are only gear progression at end game. Level cap for a Wizard means that there are no more room to improvement, no way to make his spells stronger or learn more powerful spells. Imagine an doctor IRL, nobody reached the point where they understand everything about medicine and can't improve more. If someone make a "irl rpg", is fair to assume that nobody reached the level cap in some "job classes", same with fantasy games.
This is why in a D&D/Pathfinder based RPG, reach tier 6 magic should take a very long time and most casters should be between tier 3-4. Hell, Vordakai can only use magic up to (spoilers about act III boss)
Not mention that there are no epic levels on pathfinder. But on NWN1, i completed the game far below lv 20 and completed HoTU far before lv cap. Here is a lv 14 sorc vs 2 end game dragons
Agreed, in an ideal world, the level cap should never be reachable.
It is a major flaw in PoE: Deadfire that you can reach the level cap well before the end, even before DLC was added. Progression is a critical part of an RPG, hitting level cap = no more progression = game over.
Hehe, your post made me remember this video here I watched not long ago:
And I agree: playing as an all-poweful character even before the end-game isn't much fun. That's one of the major reasons as to why D&D epic-level progression is so eternally broken in cRPG's like the NwN franchise.
It might actually be possible to hit level 17 in the final dungeon. I did miss a couple of quests, due to bugs, like that one where you have to kill 45 monsters. There is a decent amount of XP in that last dungeon.
Man those Wild Hunt Monarchs are brutal AF.
Apparently you're supposed to greater shout them and the wild hunt mobs, but the game took away the one party member that had that spell I think I should be OK, since I found out there's another lone one I need to kill before tackling the mob led by the other monarch. You've got to kill the monarchs or all the other wild hunters are unkillable. From what I've heard, cold iron won't finish the monarchs, either, and you need to use spells like disintegrate to finish them off.
Agreed, in an ideal world, the level cap should never be reachable.
It is a major flaw in PoE: Deadfire that you can reach the level cap well before the end, even before DLC was added. Progression is a critical part of an RPG, hitting level cap = no more progression = game over.
Hehe, your post made me remember this video here I watched not long ago:
And I agree: playing as an all-poweful character even before the end-game isn't much fun. That's one of the major reasons as to why D&D epic-level progression is so eternally broken in cRPG's like the NwN franchise.
Lets he honest here. You on hotu don't fight comon enemies, considering that you fight (hotu chapter 2 spoiler above)
Valsharess who have alliance with mindflayers, an Draco Lich who have very strong servants like Sodalis, Beholders and etc is expected that you are very high level. And if you start hotu at lv 15, you reach this chapter at around 18-20(not epic yet)
Not mention, the final boss who you defeat on hotu(espoilers of end game boss)
His SR is 41, that means that a sorc at lv 20 with greater spell penetration(24 penetration) will only damage with a spell that allows SR on a 17.
Why not? I recall someone doing an Icewind Dale run with a party of level one gnomes.
Did they actually stay at first level the whole way? Was an exploit used to pull it off if they did? Seriously curious about how they did it.
IWD was a different game and had really different systems, so it's not really a great comparison. At least nwn had a fairly similar system to pathfinder. Still pretty different in it's own right, with no direct party control, but the numbers @SorcererV1ct0r mentions do translate over to pathfinder.
His SR is 41, that means that a sorc at lv 20 with greater spell penetration(24 penetration) will only damage with a spell that allows SR on a 17.
Why not? I recall someone doing an Icewind Dale run with a party of level one gnomes.
Did they actually stay at first level the whole way? Was an exploit used to pull it off if they did? Seriously curious about how they did it.
IWD was a different game and had really different systems, so it's not really a great comparison. At least nwn had a fairly similar system to pathfinder. Still pretty different in it's own right, with no direct party control, but the numbers @SorcererV1ct0r mentions do translate over to pathfinder.
So there's definitely another segment after House at the edge of time. I'm really starting to suspect the curse research projects have a bigger impact there than I had thought.
Comments
About Vampyr, i will probably purchase the game. I don't played a GOOD vampire RPG since VtMB. I know that will not be good as VtMB, will not have the same athmosfere, same in depth memorable characters, Jeanette, La Croix, Rodriguez, etc but at least will not be a boring game like Dark. OMG... 4 different species blood into one person...
How about the region upgrades that say they have no impact? I only did a rebuild the fort one. Nothing seemed to come of it, so I've ignored the others.
At least they fixed the projects for levelling up your companions if you're not playing with xp sharing turned off. That was seriously annoying have a ton of cards you'd never use.
If doing all the curses does affect the ending, I think I get an idea of what it might do.
If it does affect the ending, I think it must be to free Nyrissa from her curse by the Eldest. Seems awfully costly, though, since you'll lose out a ton of events for your arcanist/high priest.
Anyway, i wanna see an NWN-like game with the same in depth class, skills, mechanics of P:K; there are two things that i think that NWN should learn from P:K
1 - Not limit the summons to one creature.
2 - Not put "half implementations" like Arcane archer who can only imbue fire(can imbue other spells on PnP) and Dragon disciple that can only be red, not mention pale master being unable to get caster level.
Also i think that the Pathfinder sorc is far more interesting than sorc on D&D 3.0/3.5. Depending the bloodline, getting completely different abilities is amazing. Not mention, the custom modules and hakpaks that are not available on P:K and i like the more "greedy" graphics of NWN. I loved NWN so much that i have the disk, the gog non ee version, the steam ee and will probably purchase on gog only cuz is drm free.
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Anyway, almost lv 16. I hope that if my save bugs again, i become able to at least see the tier 9 spells
Most of my kingdom's stats were up to 10, except for loyalty and stability, since those advisors would never show up in the throne room to talk so I couldn't do their next level ups. Espionage was only up to level 9. I did all the region upgrades, because I had plenty of time and BP in the last chapter. Nothing happened, it just closed that kingdom quest. Maybe it gave a small xp bump, nothing noticeable at this point, though. I had done all the projects that give you buffs while in your kingdom. There are 2 awesome projects you can get that halve the time to increase a kingdom stat or upgrade a region. I hadn't bothered with a few trade deals and some of the projects to decrease the cost of some of the buildings. Reg had a +32 to resolve situations, so you can get some sick numbers there.
Bring a ton of freedom of movement scrolls with you to the last dungeon. I thought I'd be fine with Harrim, but haven't been able to find him anywhere. Lots of stuff to combat blindness is handy as well restoration and greater restoration. I think it shouldn't be bad at all if I haul a bunch of those with me, this time. I've been pissing away gold, and still have a half million.
I'm pretty sure you are guaranteed to lose one particular companion. While not technically dead, they can't rejoin the party.
So far everyone I cared about besides the one I mentioned above has survived.
Honestly, do you think that my build will have a hard time on end game? Can i rest a lot on last dungeon?
It is a major flaw in PoE: Deadfire that you can reach the level cap well before the end, even before DLC was added. Progression is a critical part of an RPG, hitting level cap = no more progression = game over.
This is why in a D&D/Pathfinder based RPG, reach tier 6 magic should take a very long time and most casters should be between tier 3-4. Hell, Vordakai can only use magic up to (spoilers about act III boss)
Not mention that there are no epic levels on pathfinder. But on NWN1, i completed the game far below lv 20 and completed HoTU far before lv cap. Here is a lv 14 sorc vs 2 end game dragons
And I agree: playing as an all-poweful character even before the end-game isn't much fun. That's one of the major reasons as to why D&D epic-level progression is so eternally broken in cRPG's like the NwN franchise.
Man those Wild Hunt Monarchs are brutal AF.
Apparently you're supposed to greater shout them and the wild hunt mobs, but the game took away the one party member that had that spell
Not mention, the final boss who you defeat on hotu(espoilers of end game boss)
Can you imagine someone at level 18 on P:K fighting an enemy like this
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/archdevil/archdevil-mephistopheles/
His SR is 41, that means that a sorc at lv 20 with greater spell penetration(24 penetration) will only damage with a spell that allows SR on a 17.
IWD was a different game and had really different systems, so it's not really a great comparison. At least nwn had a fairly similar system to pathfinder. Still pretty different in it's own right, with no direct party control, but the numbers @SorcererV1ct0r mentions do translate over to pathfinder.
Certain things change a lot, but SR in general works pretty similar on P:K and on NWN.
One think that i really loved on Pathfinder is that spells like Finger of Death on SRD is Save or die( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fingerOfDeath.htm )on Pathfinder is save or take a massive damage ( https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/finger-of-death/ ), same with implosion. That spell was pretty good on MP ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm ) ( https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/implosion/ )