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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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Comments

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,342
    So, since I hadn't played it since I lost my 61 hour save, should I start this side story first and then the main campaign?

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    Yes, I think if you want to import the goodies you should do Varnhold first.

    Vallmyrbleusteel
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    It asks to import a save from the main game when starting Varnhold's lot. I saw a recommendation to play it after you get your barony, but before the season of the bloom. Not exactly sure if your main game impacts the varnhold campaign, but I was planning on giving it a shot after I got my barony on my next run. I still keep doing the false start thing, though, and can't decide what I want to play as for the main campaign. Maybe it's time to give the abyssal magus a shot again. I got a little ways in as a Paladin, too, but not sure if I want to stick with it.

    bleusteel
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    edited March 2
    So far as I can tell so far, the only effect of the import is the name/appearance of the Baron in the intro session, but the logical place to break off a main playthrough and play the expansion would be during the party between chapter 1 and 2. If you don't import you see Baron Generic.

    Correction - it seems to import at least some of your gear from your playthrough.

    Further update. This seems to be gear equipped by the Baron (main game), presumably so they display properly. However, only certain items transfer, perhaps to block gratuitously cheating +5 weapons?

    Post edited by Fardragon on
    bleusteel
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    I finally got a character up to the point of getting my barony. For my main I went with a chaotic good Eldritch Scoundrel wielding an elven curve blade. For Varnhold's lot I decided to roll with a flamewarden, which overall seems to be a good choice for skills, like perception. I bought a pretty sweet flaming double bladed sword, and I generally have lead blades up. The combat's pretty brutal, lots of greater cyclopes that can get a crit on a cleave and insta-kill multiple party members at once. I went with the default party, even though there's some overlap with the tiefling freebooter, but after she got 6 freebooter levels I switched her to a knife master. I actually love the little halfling monk, he's specced pretty well, and you can take cautious fighter and get his AC crazy high while fighting defensively with crane style and 3 points of mobility.

    bleusteel
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    Yes, I think the pregens are quite well built. I think the freebooter is the weakest link, since she overlaps with Varn.

    bleusteel
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    Fardragon wrote: »
    Yes, I think the pregens are quite well built. I think the freebooter is the weakest link, since she overlaps with Varn.

    That's a good thing.

    Man that last dungeon in varnhold's lot was a stupid slog. I felt like I had to rest almost every other fight.

    I also have to say it was kind of BS
    They take Maegar then they take Cephal from your party. Some of the fights were some serious cheese, especially the last one. I only had the priest as a caster, and there's another fight with some really powerful dweomer cats, if you cast any debuffs that hit, they just dweomer leap, with at least 2 cats on him, and he's dead from their insane amount of attacks before you can do anything. I think I had to reload as many times for that fight as the last one.

    Overall I liked the story, and was OK with the linearity of it for a short side story, but that last dungeon was just stupid. I was playing on challenging so that didn't help. I very nearly dropped the difficulty at a couple fights near the end, but eventually got through them through luck and cheese tactics, like throwing a bunch of summons into a room, running out with only one or 2 enemies after me, and dealing with those while all the summons die in the other room in 1-2 rounds. I thought it was worse than the house at the edge of time, even in the original unpatched game. At least in that case you were high level and had enough spells that a couple fights wouldn't wipe you out, and you at least had a full party. I only got enough xp to hit level 9 after the last fight, but I know I missed some stuff, by the end of I was just skipping whatever I could in the last dungeon because it just felt like it was dragging on. The twist in the final dungeon was cool, but I just didn't find the fights fun and were overly one sided on challenging.

    If I do play again, I'd probably create my own party, with a focus on AC for the majority. An alchemist that can cast shield on everybody would be so helpful, too.

    bleusteel
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 464
    I’m working through HATEOT and just picked up my last party member. For some reason everyone is getting bumped up to lvl20. Charname was lvl20 prior to entering the House but now everyone has the same XP as charname. Anyone else seeing this? Even challenging is a bit of a breeze at this point.

    Nok Nok with Master Strike is a thing of beauty.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    edited March 7
    It depends on if you have xp sharing on or off.

    If you turned off xp sharing so the main character could reach level 20 then turned it back on again your companions will be levelled up to match you when you encounter them in the House.

    If you haven't changed the settings over the course of the game their won't be an issue, you will either all be level 17, or the MC will be higher level than everyone else.

    On the whole, I wouldn't be to worried about being a level 20 party at the end though, you can always increase the difficulty settings if the endgame is too easy (not a complaint I see often!)

    bleusteel
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 464
    Fardragon wrote: »
    It depends on if you have xp sharing on or off.

    If you turned off xp sharing so the main character could reach level 20 then turned it back on again your companions will be levelled up to match you when you encounter them in the House.

    If you haven't changed the settings over the course of the game their won't be an issue, you will either all be level 17, or the MC will be higher level than everyone else.

    On the whole, I wouldn't be to worried about being a level 20 party at the end though, you can always increase the difficulty settings if the endgame is too easy (not a complaint I see often!)

    Interesting. XP sharing has remained on the entire game. I allowed skill check XP to be shared once charname reached lvl19.

    There were some odd instances like when Regongar left and rejoined at the end of his NPC quests. Upon rejoining he had the same XP as charname which was quite a bit higher than everyone else due to charname hoarding most of the skill check XP. I also noticed that late-joining NPCs like Nok-Nok would have the same amount of XP as charname.

    Seems OP but it’s still fun so what the hell :-)

    I may change my tune against an unfair-level Lantern King but we shall see.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    Fardragon wrote: »
    Yes, I think the pregens are quite well built. I think the freebooter is the weakest link, since she overlaps with Varn.

    That's a good thing.

    Man that last dungeon in varnhold's lot was a stupid slog. I felt like I had to rest almost every other fight.

    I also have to say it was kind of BS
    They take Maegar then they take Cephal from your party. Some of the fights were some serious cheese, especially the last one. I only had the priest as a caster, and there's another fight with some really powerful dweomer cats, if you cast any debuffs that hit, they just dweomer leap, with at least 2 cats on him, and he's dead from their insane amount of attacks before you can do anything. I think I had to reload as many times for that fight as the last one.

    Overall I liked the story, and was OK with the linearity of it for a short side story, but that last dungeon was just stupid. I was playing on challenging so that didn't help. I very nearly dropped the difficulty at a couple fights near the end, but eventually got through them through luck and cheese tactics, like throwing a bunch of summons into a room, running out with only one or 2 enemies after me, and dealing with those while all the summons die in the other room in 1-2 rounds. I thought it was worse than the house at the edge of time, even in the original unpatched game. At least in that case you were high level and had enough spells that a couple fights wouldn't wipe you out, and you at least had a full party. I only got enough xp to hit level 9 after the last fight, but I know I missed some stuff, by the end of I was just skipping whatever I could in the last dungeon because it just felt like it was dragging on. The twist in the final dungeon was cool, but I just didn't find the fights fun and were overly one sided on challenging.

    If I do play again, I'd probably create my own party, with a focus on AC for the majority. An alchemist that can cast shield on everybody would be so helpful, too.

    I can't say as I found the last dungeon particularly difficult, certainly nothing like the level of The House at the Edge of Time. Not even Durlag's Tower level really. Quite often the hostiles all used one damage type (acid, fire) so a quick Resist Energies (Communal) was enough to nullify them. It was certainly designed on the assumption that the party would be doing a lot of resting - the large quantities of food scattered around the dungeon gives that away.

    I played a Paladin (Divine Guardian), accompanied by a custom party consisting of a Bard (Flamedancer) Magus (Eldritch Archer), Inquisitor (Sacred Huntsmaster) and a pet boar. I hit level 9 just before the final fight.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    Fardragon wrote: »
    Fardragon wrote: »
    Yes, I think the pregens are quite well built. I think the freebooter is the weakest link, since she overlaps with Varn.

    That's a good thing.

    Man that last dungeon in varnhold's lot was a stupid slog. I felt like I had to rest almost every other fight.

    I also have to say it was kind of BS
    They take Maegar then they take Cephal from your party. Some of the fights were some serious cheese, especially the last one. I only had the priest as a caster, and there's another fight with some really powerful dweomer cats, if you cast any debuffs that hit, they just dweomer leap, with at least 2 cats on him, and he's dead from their insane amount of attacks before you can do anything. I think I had to reload as many times for that fight as the last one.

    Overall I liked the story, and was OK with the linearity of it for a short side story, but that last dungeon was just stupid. I was playing on challenging so that didn't help. I very nearly dropped the difficulty at a couple fights near the end, but eventually got through them through luck and cheese tactics, like throwing a bunch of summons into a room, running out with only one or 2 enemies after me, and dealing with those while all the summons die in the other room in 1-2 rounds. I thought it was worse than the house at the edge of time, even in the original unpatched game. At least in that case you were high level and had enough spells that a couple fights wouldn't wipe you out, and you at least had a full party. I only got enough xp to hit level 9 after the last fight, but I know I missed some stuff, by the end of I was just skipping whatever I could in the last dungeon because it just felt like it was dragging on. The twist in the final dungeon was cool, but I just didn't find the fights fun and were overly one sided on challenging.

    If I do play again, I'd probably create my own party, with a focus on AC for the majority. An alchemist that can cast shield on everybody would be so helpful, too.

    I can't say as I found the last dungeon particularly difficult, certainly nothing like the level of The House at the Edge of Time. Not even Durlag's Tower level really. Quite often the hostiles all used one damage type (acid, fire) so a quick Resist Energies (Communal) was enough to nullify them. It was certainly designed on the assumption that the party would be doing a lot of resting - the large quantities of food scattered around the dungeon gives that away.

    I played a Paladin (Divine Guardian), accompanied by a custom party consisting of a Bard (Flamedancer) Magus (Eldritch Archer), Inquisitor (Sacred Huntsmaster) and a pet boar. I hit level 9 just before the final fight.

    Probably because you had other casters you could fall back on. I had the default party with a flamewarden leading, so I was stuck with just the herald caller for a caster, so had to rest after literally every other fight. Towards the end, I had to just skip rooms to avoid resting and burning up my rations, and I entered the dungeon with more than 30 rations. The dweomer cat fight and the last fight actually took me more reloads the lantern king ever did for me, even in the unpatched version of the game. While house at the edge of time was difficult, I always felt I had options, since I could gather a full party, even if some died, plus everyone's high level and has tons of spells. The last dungeon in varnhold just felt like the only options left were drop the difficulty, reload hours in the past before I entered, start over or save scum until every single roll in the fight went perfectly. In more recent patches in the house at the edge of time, they even brought Anoriel 8 Eyes in, so you could recruit some mercs. No idea why they didn't do something like that.

    Only reason I wound up eventually beating the last boss was dumb luck
    The summons I dumped out got fear cast on them by the Marquess and ran away, with the Marquess chasing them, so I could separate the mimic and deal with him alone.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    edited March 7
    The default party has a cleric who can cast Resist Elements (Communal) and Resist Fear (level 1, covers the whole party, lasts ages, don't leave home without it), which should cover all the needed spells. You would probably be a bit stuffed if you didn't have a cleric/druid/inquisitor though.

    I had found about 40 rations before I entered the dungeon, and found about anther 20 inside, which is enough to rest after every fight (I didn't need to though).

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    Fardragon wrote: »
    The default party has a cleric who can cast Resist Elements (Communal) and Resist Fear (level 1, covers the whole party, lasts ages, don't leave home without it), which should cover all the needed spells. You would probably be a bit stuffed if you didn't have a cleric/druid/inquisitor though.

    I had found about 40 rations before I entered the dungeon, and found about anther 20 inside, which is enough to rest after every fight (I didn't need to though).

    Yup, I used the hell out of those spells with the herald caller, and the party was energy protected, and still got wrecked in most fights. In the last fight I burned every useful scroll I had, too, including like 5-6 scrolls of heal. The fear effect hitting the summons was actually a blessing. Without buffs like haste and debuffs like slow, and very little CC, I was pretty boned. In the dweomer cat fight, using any of the herald callers debuffs, just resulted in him being killed, since they'd dweomer leap with at least 2 of them on him, and he'd die before I could do anything. I needed to rest like every other fight, because the damage and spell burnout. I could have put off resting longer, but then I'd have had to rest twice in a row, since the spells that would have been converted to healing would be used up. Everything was going perfectly fine until
    They yanked the mage away

    On a side note, in the main campaign I've stumbled across some mimics.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    I would blame the deer. As animal companions go, it is pretty lame.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    Fardragon wrote: »
    I would blame the deer. As animal companions go, it is pretty lame.

    Hah, the deer is pretty lame. The spontaneous conversion for summon spells was pretty good, though, and probably the only reason I managed to get through it.

    I'm sure it's not as bad if you know what's coming and can build your party around it, it's just kind of a crappy thing to ruin the party dynamic with no way to fix it. Plus the default party doesn't include anybody that could fill the missing role.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 464
    LoL I can’t even get past the first Lantern King incarnation on Unfair.

    Challenging-level Lantern King was a piece of cake.

    I’ll keep hacking away on unfair Lantern King and see if I can figure it out. My charname is a little gimped because I didn’t realize Eldritch Scoundrel maxes out at 6th circle spells and she’s a ES 10/Arcane Trickster 10. Still a lot of fun. Once I figure this out (or get tired of trying) I’ll try out the new DLC so I can uncover all of your guys’ spoilers.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    edited March 8
    Fardragon wrote: »
    I would blame the deer. As animal companions go, it is pretty lame.

    Hah, the deer is pretty lame. The spontaneous conversion for summon spells was pretty good, though, and probably the only reason I managed to get through it.

    I'm sure it's not as bad if you know what's coming and can build your party around it, it's just kind of a crappy thing to ruin the party dynamic with no way to fix it. Plus the default party doesn't include anybody that could fill the missing role.

    I'm not sure which hole you mean - it has a cleric, a tank and someone who can find and remove traps. Someone to pontificate smugly whilst everyone else does all the work? I can do that myself!

    DrHappyAngry
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 464
    I vanquished unfair Lantern King!

    I used some blade barrier spam and lots of hiding but it worked out. The hardest incarnation was the first with the massive unholy damage (600 on a failed save!) and dispel spam. If I could get past the first version then it was mostly about positioning my invisible charname so she wouldn’t be noticed while Nyrissa finished everyone off. Which took a loooong time.

    DrHappyAngry
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    bleusteel wrote: »
    I vanquished unfair Lantern King!

    I used some blade barrier spam and lots of hiding but it worked out. The hardest incarnation was the first with the massive unholy damage (600 on a failed save!) and dispel spam. If I could get past the first version then it was mostly about positioning my invisible charname so she wouldn’t be noticed while Nyrissa finished everyone off. Which took a loooong time.

    I haven't tried unfair yet, but you can totally abuse the hell out of sirocco during that fight. Dump multiple ones over the top of where they all spawn and hide near the entrance. Fill up every spell slot with sirocco, heighten empower them just to get more. The first incarnation still is the hardest, though. Eventually everyone will be on the ground exhausted, taking damage constantly. Ah, makes me think of Baldur's Gate with web and stinking cloud and shooting everyone while they're crippled.

    I just got to Varnhold, the start of the chapter asked me to import a save from varnhold's lot. I haven't noticed anything different so far, but I haven't even been to the city of hollow eyes or the sepulchre, yet. I've heard based off the ending I got in Varnhold's lot, I'll bump into my character from there near the very end of the game.

    bleusteel
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    Oh, @bleusteel I was curious how the Eldritch Scoundrel/Arcane Trickster worked out for you? I'm playing an Eldritch Scoundrel now, but didn't think AT was the best match for the character I was playing, since I'm not pushing ranged as much as using the buffs to not get killed and hit more often while I go to town with an elven curve blade. I also didn't want to hurt my attack bonus, although AT gets more sneak attack dice than the scoundrel.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 464
    @DrHappyAngry It didn’t turn out how I expected. I’m still getting familiar with 3E/Pathfinder and I thought I could be “sneaky” and make an Arcane Trickster that was also a 20th lvl caster. That part worked, she was a 20th lvl spellcaster but she was limited to 6th circle spells. She was also supposed to be a finesse-y sneak attacker but she was too squishy for challenging difficulty. Always just a single crit away from the boneyard, y’know?

    Her specialty was sneak attack, maximized (rod) chain lightning to soften up foes before Val, Nok-Nok and Jaethal cleaned up. Jubilost lobbed explosive or acid bombs to great effect. Jubilost was actually crucial to bringing down the first Lantern King doing 50+ damage per acid bomb. Harrim healed and did buffing and crowd control along with charname.

    My initial evil party makeup included Regongar but I could never figure out how to use him correctly.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    I feel the inclusion of both Eldritch Scoundrel and Arcane Trickster was a bit silly. The Arcane Trickster seems to be superior in every way - perhaps because only one level of rogue is needed to qualify for it, rather than the three that where initially intended.

    bleusteel
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 464
    edited March 9
    Fardragon wrote: »
    I feel the inclusion of both Eldritch Scoundrel and Arcane Trickster was a bit silly. The Arcane Trickster seems to be superior in every way - perhaps because only one level of rogue is needed to qualify for it, rather than the three that where initially intended.

    Yep, live and learn. I don’t fault the devs for my bad choice :-)

    After I run through the Varnhold DLC, I’m thinking of doing a Paladin/Scaled Fist next. I’ve only ever run spellcasters/rogues so that should be a nice change of pace.

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 801
    Fardragon wrote: »
    I feel the inclusion of both Eldritch Scoundrel and Arcane Trickster was a bit silly. The Arcane Trickster seems to be superior in every way - perhaps because only one level of rogue is needed to qualify for it, rather than the three that where initially intended.

    I agree that the AT is more powerful, but that doesn't make the ES necessarily obsolete. Depends what's on their spell list (haven't tried the class), but if they get the usual wizard spells, then they could play as a self-buffing rogue, as opposed to an arcane caster sneak attacking with spells. At higher difficulties their better bab and the injury penalties might be more useful.

    Now that I think of it, sounds like a nice character for an arcane pirate of the stolen lands rivers. Someone like Saemon Havarian, perhaps. :p I'm currently playing around with the newest SCS beta, but might give it a try once I'm finished with that. I have to admit that with the addition of IWD spells the SCS-BG2 magic combat is simply more fun, though.

    DrHappyAngry
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,509
    I think Eldritch Scoundrel uses the magus spell list, which is a subset of wizard.

    Would really really like to see the Oracle (spontaneous full caster with cleric spell list) added to the game.

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 801
    The Eldritch Arcana mod adds the Oracle class.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    Eldritch Scoundrel uses the magus spell progression, but gets the full wizard spell list.

    Glad I stuck with the scoundrel for my melee caster rogue build, then. I'm only on challenging, but with mirror image up, I don't get hit often. I am pretty much a self buffing rogue, shield, mirror image, heroism up at all times. I've been playing with angelic aspect and genie kind on this character, too. They can't wear armor, so at low levels I had to use mage armor, but you can always use robes and bracers.

    Regongar, and any magus really, needs a ton of micro management to play right. You want to turn off spell combat and wield your weapon 2 handed when your not casting, and turn it on when you want to cast. You've really got to lean on spells like mirror image and shield, so things are really tough at low levels, but get easier when you can wear medium armor or get other armor bonuses from a bloodline. You generally want to try to use a high crit chance weapon, too since magic damage delivered through your weapon is doubled on a crit, too. I'll use spell combat, cast something like shocking grasp and then use arcane accuracy to make sure it hits.

    bleusteel
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 981
    Damn, I just finished Armag's Tomb, and my main is level 16, but the rest of the party's level 12! I think it might be time to turn off skill user gets all the XP. With my Eldritch Scoundrel doing all the traps and persuasion checks, I've just been soaking up all the XP. I'm also the perception monkey for the party, as well.

    I haven't gotten to around to it, yet, but after finishing Varnhold Maegar Varn
    Asked me to meet him at the last dungeon I cleared in Varhnhold's Lot. I seriously hope I can buy some of that gear from Varnhold's Lot that I couldn't afford back then. They had some more bags of holding.

    bleusteel
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 464
    Yeah party/charname levels get very lopsided but it all evens out when you reach the House and everyone jumps up to lvl20! I like the idea of charname being a few levels ahead of the rest of the party. It really helps him/her stand out. Last playthrough I stopped hogging skill XP at lvl19 and still hit the cap before entering the House. Next time I’ll stop hoarding at 18 and see where I end up.

    I was afraid that I would lose interest in the playthrough if level advancement stopped (looking at you PoE), but there’s so much going on in the House and afterward that it didn’t bother me at all. As it’s been said, if combat gets boring, you can always turn up the difficulty. Unfair HATEOT is bonkers.

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