@Kristie83 eh, I just lived in the middle of nowhere, with courage, regardless be proud of your geekness! Declare it to the heavens!
On a more topic related note with graphics and such, this has always bothered me. How were the orgional sprite models lost? And what is the difference between having those and having the ones in the game?
The "art assets" that people keep talking about were the 3D models that were used to create the sprite animations in the game. If you have the original 3D model, you can render new sprites at any resolution based on that model--or you can even design the engine to render it in real-time, allowing for perfectly scaled animations at any resolution. It also would open the door to adding textures to the sprites, making BG:EE a truly HD experience.
Apparently, when Bioware stopped working on Baldur's Gate and started working on other projects, they forgot to keep a record of who had the original art assets. It's most likely that no one thought that they would ever be needed again--although the fact that the artist (Daniel Walker) passed away shortly after BG1 was released may have had something to do with it. Nothing sinister, just unfortunate circumstances.
When Beamdog went to Bioware to get the files for the game, Bioware looked for the art assets and discovered that they were no longer on file. So Beamdog was left with just the sprites.
Thankfully, the sprites still look pretty good. If you don't mind the sprites in the original game, you definitely won't mind them now--and there is some filtering going on that improves the look a bit. But losing the art assets meant that they couldn't be completely re-rendered, unfortunately.
Ugh if you want want super HD graphics play Skyrim, Crysis, or Battlefield 3 this type of game doesnt need HD graphics stop whining about it if you played the original these look perfectly fine to me I still play old skool games and love them there alot better then most newer games I can max out Battlefield 3 played prob 60 hours of it and havent touched it since I have played well over 1000 hours between BG1 and 2 alone and I keep coming back to them for a reason.
@Aosaw Okay, I think I understand. So it is possible to update the animations, BUT you would essentially be starting from scratch and not really updating them but making complete new ones? As to if they look good or not, that isn't the important bit to me about BG:EE to be honest. It is nice to know that they did what they could however. Thanks! Can I still blame EA for this somehow?....jk
It may tangentially be EA's fault (assuming that equipment was moved from one office location to another during the transition), but I don't think we can really "blame" anyone for it in this instance.
I do know that they did want to use the art assets to scale things up better, and it was a sad day for all of us when they discovered they were lost. For the folks at Bioware too, I imagine; nobody likes it when a piece of artwork is lost, especially when it's a part of something you helped to create.
The pixel resolution goes under 800x anything. I prefer to play it in windowed mode, and even then, I see a lot of backgrounds rendered in low quality. There's a lot of blown out bright pixels where there should be shadows for instance. There's no zoom function either.
The first thing that struck me from watching the trailer was how smooth people moved. The backgrounds seem to have been re-rendered with a modern high quality tool.
But yeah, it's like.. learning to drink whiskey. If one starts on the most expensive brand, one probably will still think the taste is awful as one has nothing to compare it to. If one starts at a cheaper brand and drinks his/her way up, then the difference is very obvious. You might not have played BG in a while, so it might not be that obvious to you.. The many subtle graphical differences is one of the features I would considered to be enhanced for sure.
A possibility, to kind of "show off" the improved graphics, is to take a video of BG1 and render it beside the same areas displayed in the various BG:EE videos. Also do a comparison between BG2 and BG:EE.....just a thought.
Its better to compare screenshots instead of videos, because you can use uncompressed format. Compression will destroy any improvement you are trying to look for.
The filtering isn't magic and from what I've heard they aren't using any revolutionary or advanced techniques to sharpen the image. On the other hand people are perfectly happy playing 720p console games on 1080p TVs so I wouldn't worry too much. And having played BG through on non native resolution on LCD display (because with native everything became too small) I can say from experience that you get used to the slightly blurry graphics really fast and wont notice it afterwards. Zoom feature might break the illusion of sharp graphics but in that case just lock it in place if it bothers you.
@PhillipDaigle Regarding the art assets for bg1 being lost ~ are they also lost for bg2? Because I keep hearing about lost assets for bg1 but nothing about bg2 which is also going to receive an update. Would be nice to know if beamdog intend to update graphics in bg2.
@Tanthalas Well maybe the community can update the models, if beamdog cannot afford to, through the modding community. Depending on how good the modding is...
@Tanthalas Well maybe the community can update the models, if beamdog cannot afford to, through the modding community. Depending on how good the modding is...
It would be interesting to see if we have any modellers within the community. I myself am an amateur and have not done much since uni, but I am sure there are others.
Well, making new 3D models to fit the old ones is ultra hard. I was stalking Fallout modding community for a long time, and there was one, just one person, who actually made it look like original. The first Fallouts were made basicly the same technique as BG, when it comes to character models.
And having played BG through on non native resolution on LCD display (because with native everything became too small) I can say from experience that you get used to the slightly blurry graphics really fast and wont notice it afterwards. Zoom feature might break the illusion of sharp graphics but in that case just lock it in place if it bothers you.
Well i hope it works out also for me that way, I love the Baldur's GAte 1+2 Graphic, so i really hope when i finally can play the EE that the visual experience is REAL close to the original.
The "art assets" that people keep talking about were the 3D models that were used to create the sprite animations in the game. If you have the original 3D model, you can render new sprites at any resolution based on that model--or you can even design the engine to render it in real-time, allowing for perfectly scaled animations at any resolution. It also would open the door to adding textures to the sprites, making BG:EE a truly HD experience.
Apparently, when Bioware stopped working on Baldur's Gate and started working on other projects, they forgot to keep a record of who had the original art assets. It's most likely that no one thought that they would ever be needed again--although the fact that the artist (Daniel Walker) passed away shortly after BG1 was released may have had something to do with it. Nothing sinister, just unfortunate circumstances.
When Beamdog went to Bioware to get the files for the game, Bioware looked for the art assets and discovered that they were no longer on file. So Beamdog was left with just the sprites.
Thankfully, the sprites still look pretty good. If you don't mind the sprites in the original game, you definitely won't mind them now--and there is some filtering going on that improves the look a bit. But losing the art assets meant that they couldn't be completely re-rendered, unfortunately.
But this sprites are not too detailed in the original game, they could create this kind of sprites from nothing in days (or months, if there is so many). I don't think it is too much work. Or the originals are in the game code, they could just change them to more detailed sprites (with faces - this is the minimum I think). Or is this too much work?
It's really bad that they lost "art assets", I can't believe it. BGEE is good for me as it is today, but... can you imagine what could they do with that ? I hope modders will be able to enhance the enhanced edition
I still don't understand why it is important that they lost anything. This figurines are just sprites, why it so much work to make more detailed sprites from nothing? They have portraites for each of the characters, the AD&D Universe has tons of pictures for monsters etc.
The sprites are rendered from 3D model assets. Those assets are gone so no re-rendering can take place.
They could recreate all the sprites, this would be quite time-consuming as they would need to recreate every single race sprite as well as every monster so that the quality would match up. They would need to do this for every animation of every one of these sprites.
This would be a massive amount of work and would likely have added months onto the delivery of the game, Plus a significant price increase due to all this extra work.
Thanks, I understand now. They had to create all 3D models again, then reskin them or use sprites. Still I think those changes would worth it even with that concesvences. But I just read that 1pp is merging in the game too, this are good news. Hope I can create a Druid with robe and hook, or a lich looking necromancer. If not at the release, then later. Thanks guys.
@Kristie83 He'd answer, but he can't read your post.
Ok, I'm going to assume he is joking lol! But, in my defense, I'm sure there is software out there for the blind that will read the text on your screen to you...I did wonder though how it would be possible to play a game like BG though... Geez, I'm so gullible... *hangs head in shame*
Hey don't feel bad, the story was not completely impossible. The developers of Discworld Noir said somewhere (it might have been in a manual) that they added a feature in the game (names of places being read aloud when mouse hovered over it), because they came in contact with a blind gamer who beat the first two Discworld games despite not being able to see it. So if a person is determined enough, nothing will stop them from playing the game they love.
I've suggested that maybe the original source and art was shipped over to the guys who made IWD. I mean, those guys completely gutted the Infinity Engine and made a nice new UI for IWD2.
In some ways the IWD2 UI is better than the one for BG:EE.
@Kristie83 He'd answer, but he can't read your post.
Ok, I'm going to assume he is joking lol! But, in my defense, I'm sure there is software out there for the blind that will read the text on your screen to you...I did wonder though how it would be possible to play a game like BG though... Geez, I'm so gullible... *hangs head in shame*
Hey don't feel bad, the story was not completely impossible. The developers of Discworld Noir said somewhere (it might have been in a manual) that they added a feature in the game (names of places being read aloud when mouse hovered over it), because they came in contact with a blind gamer who beat the first two Discworld games despite not being able to see it. So if a person is determined enough, nothing will stop them from playing the game they love.
Wow, that's some real determination! I can't even imagine all the challenges a blind person would have playing any game. The monitor is THE main source of output. Listening to the sounds of the game could only get you so far I'd imagine. How would you even know where to click? Mind boggling...
How about updating spell effects for BG2:EE? I don't mind the character sprites, background art and menus but updating the spell effects could go a long w ay. A lot of non-oldschool gamers are turned off just by the seemingly outdated graphics.
I've suggested that maybe the original source and art was shipped over to the guys who made IWD. I mean, those guys completely gutted the Infinity Engine and made a nice new UI for IWD2.
In some ways the IWD2 UI is better than the one for BG:EE.
Black Isle died long ago, I have no idea if anything they once used would still exist?
Well, making new 3D models to fit the old ones is ultra hard. I was stalking Fallout modding community for a long time, and there was one, just one person, who actually made it look like original. The first Fallouts were made basicly the same technique as BG, when it comes to character models.
I understand the concern, but if it happened I figure ALL of the sprites would need to have new models and thus the models would not need to 'fit' in with existing ones, merely with each other and the fantastic backgrounds we already have.
Yes, but in 2012 to have absolute no face as a sprite-character is a bit sad. I really like the backgrounds, they are more than fine even now. (I didn't liked NWN because all dungeons, castles, forests looked the same - except some light effects. I made 2 very long mods for NWN1, with new textures and fun furnitures, but it was not too good either.) So the Areas here in BG:EE are very nice, the sprites could be reworked though. Sure there is already a request Topic for it, let's find it. Thanks all.
IchigoRXC said: "I understand the concern, but if it happened I figure ALL of the sprites would need to have new models and thus the models would not need to 'fit' in with existing ones, merely with each other and the fantastic backgrounds we already have."
I think the filtered backgrounds very well fits with greater resolutions. I think they could try to enlarge the original background, then filter it, and then create the new models on the new scale. So the new models could have better resolution, more details. And yes, I would pay more for this game of course, and sure I can wait a little more for any later announced DLCs or patches. Thanks.
Comments
On a more topic related note with graphics and such, this has always bothered me. How were the orgional sprite models lost? And what is the difference between having those and having the ones in the game?
Apparently, when Bioware stopped working on Baldur's Gate and started working on other projects, they forgot to keep a record of who had the original art assets. It's most likely that no one thought that they would ever be needed again--although the fact that the artist (Daniel Walker) passed away shortly after BG1 was released may have had something to do with it. Nothing sinister, just unfortunate circumstances.
When Beamdog went to Bioware to get the files for the game, Bioware looked for the art assets and discovered that they were no longer on file. So Beamdog was left with just the sprites.
Thankfully, the sprites still look pretty good. If you don't mind the sprites in the original game, you definitely won't mind them now--and there is some filtering going on that improves the look a bit. But losing the art assets meant that they couldn't be completely re-rendered, unfortunately.
I do know that they did want to use the art assets to scale things up better, and it was a sad day for all of us when they discovered they were lost. For the folks at Bioware too, I imagine; nobody likes it when a piece of artwork is lost, especially when it's a part of something you helped to create.
The pixel resolution goes under 800x anything. I prefer to play it in windowed mode, and even then, I see a lot of backgrounds rendered in low quality. There's a lot of blown out bright pixels where there should be shadows for instance. There's no zoom function either.
The first thing that struck me from watching the trailer was how smooth people moved. The backgrounds seem to have been re-rendered with a modern high quality tool.
But yeah, it's like.. learning to drink whiskey. If one starts on the most expensive brand, one probably will still think the taste is awful as one has nothing to compare it to. If one starts at a cheaper brand and drinks his/her way up, then the difference is very obvious. You might not have played BG in a while, so it might not be that obvious to you.. The many subtle graphical differences is one of the features I would considered to be enhanced for sure.
The filtering isn't magic and from what I've heard they aren't using any revolutionary or advanced techniques to sharpen the image. On the other hand people are perfectly happy playing 720p console games on 1080p TVs so I wouldn't worry too much. And having played BG through on non native resolution on LCD display (because with native everything became too small) I can say from experience that you get used to the slightly blurry graphics really fast and wont notice it afterwards. Zoom feature might break the illusion of sharp graphics but in that case just lock it in place if it bothers you.
Regarding the art assets for bg1 being lost ~ are they also lost for bg2? Because I keep hearing about lost assets for bg1 but nothing about bg2 which is also going to receive an update. Would be nice to know if beamdog intend to update graphics in bg2.
Yeah, for both games. Otherwise they could have at least re-rendered the character and enemy models.
I was stalking Fallout modding community for a long time, and there was one, just one person, who actually made it look like original.
The first Fallouts were made basicly the same technique as BG, when it comes to character models.
They could recreate all the sprites, this would be quite time-consuming as they would need to recreate every single race sprite as well as every monster so that the quality would match up. They would need to do this for every animation of every one of these sprites.
This would be a massive amount of work and would likely have added months onto the delivery of the game, Plus a significant price increase due to all this extra work.
If not at the release, then later. Thanks guys.
@Syntia13 Now that is awesome. Good choice in games as well :P
In some ways the IWD2 UI is better than the one for BG:EE.
I understand the concern, but if it happened I figure ALL of the sprites would need to have new models and thus the models would not need to 'fit' in with existing ones, merely with each other and the fantastic backgrounds we already have.
I think the filtered backgrounds very well fits with greater resolutions. I think they could try to enlarge the original background, then filter it, and then create the new models on the new scale. So the new models could have better resolution, more details.
And yes, I would pay more for this game of course, and sure I can wait a little more for any later announced DLCs or patches. Thanks.