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Request: Open Up the Premium Modules

Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
As recommended on the tracker (here) I'd like to officially ask to open up the premium modules so that we may see them in the toolset and decipher their secrets.

So apparently legal limitations have intervened and, unfortunately, this is not happening.
Thank you to those who actually supported this.


So apparently this IS happening now. Yay!

Post edited by Dark_Ansem on
ProlericDerpCityGrymlordezunath

Comments

  • DerpCityDerpCity Member, Moderator Posts: 262
    edited March 7
    While I do wish this was done, I'm pretty sure I understand why this wasn't done. If you could simply open them up and edit them, this would make it very easy to just save it somewhere else and put it up for download, defeating the point of paying for it. However, with this in mind, I'm sure they could make sure that it isn't possible to pirate them, and it would help in the Bug-Fixing process by allowing those who find a bug to find the script causing the problem and suggest a fix. Seems sort of like a win/win to me.

    Also, the fact they didn't put Trip's voice in the main game was always a sin to me. "My teeth will snap at your ankles and make you dance!" will always be the best battlecry, IMO.

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    edited March 10
    DerpCity said:

    While I do wish this was done, I'm pretty sure I understand why this wasn't done. If you could simply open them up and edit them, this would make it very easy to just save it somewhere else and put it up for download, defeating the point of paying for it. However, with this in mind, I'm sure they could make sure that it isn't possible to pirate them, and it would help in the Bug-Fixing process by allowing those who find a bug to find the script causing the problem and suggest a fix. Seems sort of like a win/win to me.

    Also, the fact they didn't put Trip's voice in the main game was always a sin to me. "My teeth will snap at your ankles and make you dance!" will always be the best battlecry, IMO.

    There are plenty of ways to prevent the pirating of such modules. And none as asinine or vexatious as the current policy of locking them down. I paid for these premium modules also to learn, not just to play. To have them locked after all these years is incomprehensible.

    @TrentOster you were executive director of NWN back then. Don't you feel that the small risk of content older than a decade being pirated does not justify the decision to lock it from those Who, like me, paid for it back then and now? I mean, I happily paid twice for it and 3 times for the main game, and I feel quite incensed at this.

    Post edited by Dark_Ansem on
  • Taro94Taro94 Member Posts: 125
    DerpCity said:

    While I do wish this was done, I'm pretty sure I understand why this wasn't done. If you could simply open them up and edit them, this would make it very easy to just save it somewhere else and put it up for download, defeating the point of paying for it. However, with this in mind, I'm sure they could make sure that it isn't possible to pirate them, and it would help in the Bug-Fixing process by allowing those who find a bug to find the script causing the problem and suggest a fix. Seems sort of like a win/win to me.

    Also, the fact they didn't put Trip's voice in the main game was always a sin to me. "My teeth will snap at your ankles and make you dance!" will always be the best battlecry, IMO.

    Except the premium modules are already functional whether you've bought them or not. So I could just send an Infinite Dungeons installer to someone who has NWN:EE, but doesn't have the module and they'll be able to install and play it with no problems.

    And that's a good thing, by the way, because DRM like the one that was in place in BioWare days is extremely invasive and caused legitimate owners of the modules to be unable to play them without cracking them.

    But my point is, you can already pirate them easily, so the inability to edit them achieves literally nothing.

    Dark_Ansem
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    Taro94 said:

    DerpCity said:

    While I do wish this was done, I'm pretty sure I understand why this wasn't done. If you could simply open them up and edit them, this would make it very easy to just save it somewhere else and put it up for download, defeating the point of paying for it. However, with this in mind, I'm sure they could make sure that it isn't possible to pirate them, and it would help in the Bug-Fixing process by allowing those who find a bug to find the script causing the problem and suggest a fix. Seems sort of like a win/win to me.

    Also, the fact they didn't put Trip's voice in the main game was always a sin to me. "My teeth will snap at your ankles and make you dance!" will always be the best battlecry, IMO.

    Except the premium modules are already functional whether you've bought them or not. So I could just send an Infinite Dungeons installer to someone who has NWN:EE, but doesn't have the module and they'll be able to install and play it with no problems.

    And that's a good thing, by the way, because DRM like the one that was in place in BioWare days is extremely invasive and caused legitimate owners of the modules to be unable to play them without cracking them.

    But my point is, you can already pirate them easily, so the inability to edit them achieves literally nothing.
    Agree completely.

  • PlokPlok Member Posts: 106
    edited March 12
    DRM screwing over paying customers and not stopping piracy? Who could have possibly guessed that would happen. ;)

    If I might soapbox a little, DRM is an inherently flawed approach to dealing with piracy. "Let's encrypt this thing but also hand over the encryption key and hope no one finds it."

    It actually makes pirate copies more attractive than the real thing because of the lack of DRM - who remembers unskippable DVD adverts and "Piracy funds Terrorism" scare warnings? Or the Sony Rootkit they put on their CDs? It's seriously bad news when you can trust random pirates on the internet more than the official channels for a product. I still haven't forgiven Sony for that stunt - I got screwed over by it with a Faithless CD as a teenager.

    Steam, GOG, Netflix and the countless other online services have done far more to stop piracy than any DRM. Piracy was rife because it was easier than paying for it and you got a better product when you pirated it. Piracy is dropping massively and even the MPAA/RIAA's own studies show it.

    People who pirate now aren't going to be your customers - they're either penniless (like I was) or just plain won't pay. No amount of DRM is going to force the latter group to give you money - they'll just go without. Even they have their value though; word of mouth is an under appreciated form of marketing.

    The penniless, however, won't always be so. They can be very lucarative customers in future. They also have memories - I avoid giving Sony money if I possibly can. I went through a period in my early 20s (when I was rich in both time and money) where I was regularly buying 4-5 games, half a dozen albums and 2-3 DVDs every month. I was a filthy pirate as a teenager who hardly ever paid for games, music or films - I had lots of time but no money (the exact opposite of now).

    Having said all that... I know publishers hold the purse strings and game devs and sellers gotta do what they gotta do. It's just that DRM is so very, very dumb. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    edited March 13
    So apparently the answer provided by "@beamdoguser" (no idea who that is) was, and I quote:
    "We cannot do this due to legalities."

    Enlighten me, @beamdoguser.

    I trust that the future premium modules you'll release won't have such pathetic and asinine DRM on it, will they? Or am I supposed to really consider this EE business as nothing more a cash grab?

    Post edited by Dark_Ansem on
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,498
    We investigated but found out there are legal limitations for this particular request.

    I'm sad to read your last part of the message.

    Dark_Ansem
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    edited March 13

    We investigated but found out there are legal limitations for this particular request.

    I'm sad to read your last part of the message.

    Which one, the one where I hope that future BD modules won't be locked down in this infuriating way?

    Seriously, I was wondering whether you'd pick that reference up. I didn't quote you, however, because I was hoping to get the person who actually wrote the comment.

    I'm part of the legal trade, so I'd like to know the "fine print", so to speak.

    I'm sad too, but what can I say. I'm not happy about this.


    EDIT: all right @JuliusBorisov . Thank you for having investigated. I will drop the matter altogether.
    Out of curiosity, do the legal limitations apply to the source scripts too? Or there is a limited chance of the source scripts being released?

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,498
    No, we can't release anything related to the premium modules because we don't own the source files.

    Dark_AnsemGrymlorde
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910

    No, we can't release anything related to the premium modules because we don't own the source files.

    Alas, it clearly was not meant to be.

    Well, I'm sure that the adventures released by BD will be just as revolutionary, if not more, than the previous modules.

    Again, thank you for having investigated.

    JuliusBorisov
  • Sylvus_MoonbowSylvus_Moonbow Member Posts: 969
    Everything you see in a premium module can be recreated with the toolset and scripting and yes it would require time to write scripts but there isn't anything in the premium modules worth getting this upset over.

    JFKGrymlorde
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    edited March 13

    Everything you see in a premium module can be recreated with the toolset and scripting and yes it would require time to write scripts but there isn't anything in the premium modules worth getting this upset over.

    Ah but you see, recreating is one thing, learning is something different. Of course most of them can be recreated.

    Would it have made any difference had I asked Bioware back then, all these years ago? I'm sure someone did...

    But you're probably right @Sylvus_Moonbow . No need to get so annoyed by that. So I apologise, @JuliusBorisov ,
    But as I said, I will never buy these modules again. Only the Beamdog-made ones from now on.

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    So apparently, this WILL HAPPEN NOW. O Joyous Evening!

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,498
    Context:

    After further investigation we are able to make this content available to the public.

    ProlericdunahanGrymlordeDerpCity
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910

    Context:

    After further investigation we are able to make this content available to the public.

    Can you explain how this was confirmed? Were the legal issues fixed and/or the source files released?

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,498
    Probably this could be a question for a livestream(s).

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910

    Probably this could be a question for a livestream(s).

    All right. I'll try tomorrow. Thanks again :)

    JuliusBorisov
  • SkipBittmanSkipBittman Member Posts: 86
    edited March 19
    Infinite Dungeons would benefit from a community update with all kinds of new assets and permutations woven in. Would be fun to tinker with whatever mad scripting they had going on in there and push it until it snaps, then glue the pieces back together, then melt all the pieces again. A bit. Normal/spec maps, EE era assets using new model parameters, more fiends, more strange factors straight out of of old encounter tables.

    Even More Infinite Dungeons

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910

    Infinite Dungeons would benefit from a community update with all kinds of new assets and permutations woven in. Would be fun to tinker with whatever mad scripting they had going on in there and push it until it snaps, then glue the pieces back together, then melt all the pieces again. A bit. Normal/spec maps, EE era assets using new model parameters, more fiends, more strange factors straight out of of old encounter tables.

    Even More Infinite Dungeons

    Well, now perhaps it will be possible?

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    edited April 4
    An update has happened on the Trello card. Please elaborate it?

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,498
    It is a link in the software we use in the studio. It's for internal use.

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910
    edited April 4
    oooh. Sorry. So it's not for us? I was all excited!

  • BehindflayerBehindflayer Member Posts: 36
    So is this going to happen, or not? Also, how do I actually get Infinite Dungeons after acquiring it as a DLC on Steam?

  • raz651raz651 Member Posts: 175

    So is this going to happen, or not? Also, how do I actually get Infinite Dungeons after acquiring it as a DLC on Steam?

    It is on the trelloboard in the category of "< 3 months", so it will be soon.

    https://trello.com/c/e0rnoNa0/87-open-up-the-premium-modules-for-module-editing-building

    JuliusBorisov
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 910

    So is this going to happen, or not? Also, how do I actually get Infinite Dungeons after acquiring it as a DLC on Steam?

    For your second question, click on: "neverwinter nights premium modules"

    JuliusBorisov
  • BehindflayerBehindflayer Member Posts: 36
    Oh, it actually only downloads when I start the game. Sorry about that.

    @raz651
    Thanks

    JuliusBorisov
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