Separate Immunity to Critical Hits from Immunity to Surprise
DM_Djinn
Member Posts: 112
Just like the title says! If you want to make a creature "immune to surprise" which would technically prohibit them from losing their dexterity modifier, be sneak or death attacked, you can't.
You have to make them immune to critical hits, as well.
Helmite Watchers, in particular, are immune to "surprise" as a condition and therefore never lose their dexterity modifier to their Armor Class. They would not be immune to critical hits, however.
If the Toolset simply had another trait for Immunity to Surprise instead of just immunity to critical hits, a whole range of monsters and player possibilities open up!
Thanks for reading.
You have to make them immune to critical hits, as well.
Helmite Watchers, in particular, are immune to "surprise" as a condition and therefore never lose their dexterity modifier to their Armor Class. They would not be immune to critical hits, however.
If the Toolset simply had another trait for Immunity to Surprise instead of just immunity to critical hits, a whole range of monsters and player possibilities open up!
Thanks for reading.
1
Comments
Hell, normally it's people complaining that you CAN'T make something immune to crits while also being vulnerable to sneak attack...the reverse has always been true.
As a module designer, it would be ideal to have a separate item property for each thing. An item or ability that protects from sneak attacks shouldn't also protect from critical hits; as much as an item that protects from critical hits should not protect from sneak attacks.
Monster Uncanny Reflex feat would work if it could be put on an item... and it's named wrong!
But, taking a guess, it sounds like what you're REALLY complaining about is the fact that the "Deathless Mastery" feat which is Pale Master only gives Critical Hit Immunity and there's not a SECOND feat that exists which gives Sneak Attack Immunity. So you want them to add an entirely new feat that gives Sneak Attack Immunity only.
Remember, all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.
Likewise, anyone immune to critical hits is immune to sneak attack but not everyone immune to sneak attack is immune to critical hits.
Do keep in mind you started this thread by saying: Which exists.
Flat footed is the state that removes a character's dex bonus from their AC, it also qualifies for being a legal sneak attack target.
There are other ways to cause an opponent to be flat footed other than surprise. As the rules for initiative point out, you are flat-footed at the start of any combat until the start of your first turn, if an opponent that does not surprise you rolls a higher initiative and attacks then you are still flat footed.
Sneak attack is a special kind of attack that can be made when an opponent is not able to effectively defend themselves. Mechanically this is either (A) any condition that would normally deny a target their dexterity bonus, or (B) any attack made while flanking the target.
Flanking is the bonus awarded to combatants that threaten opposite sides of target.
Threatening a target requires that you can attack their 5ft square from your 5ft square with a melee attack. Medium weapons have a range of 5ft while reach weapons have a range of 10ft. Small and medium creatures with reach weapons threaten all surrounding squares at a depth of 2 additional squares even diagonally.
As you can see you can be immune to surprise and immune to flanking but still vulnerable to sneak attacks under some conditions.
The state of whether someone is vulnerable to a sneak attack is more complicated than whether someone is vulnerable to critical hits. Sneak attacks were one of the things mentioned in unhardcoding combat or something along those lines but it had since been changed more specifically to combat feats I believe. The best way to handle the nuances of sneak attack that I found was using the onhit property instead as part of a catchall onhit.
1, are you immune to being flat-footed from an invisible (or stealthed) attack?
2, are you immune to being flanked?
3, are you immune to being feinted (or some other action that causes you to become flat-footed which bypasses #1)?
4, are you lower in initiative assuming no surprise round?
Technically there's probably even some other edge cases I'm forgetting. I just gave up earlier. Especially since in my modules I don't give anything critical hit or sneak immunity (not a fan of crippling core class features).