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[MOD] Items of the Planes

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  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    Minor tattoos are about halfway done being implemented. I've had to revise some of my designs (including the Anarchist getting a bonus against factols </3), so it's taking longer than I expected.

    I was looking at Celestial Fire and Entropic Blade and realized that they form two thirds of a cycle (LG, CN, NE). I have already identified a fitting way to get such a monumentally Evil item, but I am unsure of what exactly it should do. Here's a design for it, as well as a hint about the acquisition method.
    The Primordial Sin
    Combat Abilities:
    - Soulripping: on a critical hit, living, humanoid creatures must save vs. death (-4 penalty) or be slain and turned into a Lesser Shadow
    - Unholy: deals 2 additional damage to non-Evil creatures and 4 additional damage (total) to Good creatures
    Enchanted: +3
    THAC0: +3 bonus
    Damage: +3 bonus
    Usable by: Evil characters

    Comments: To get such an Evil weapon, one must simply do the single most Evil thing in the game.

    GuboMothorGusinda
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    ArthasII wrote: »
    What is the most evil thing of the game?
    wild guess: giving a companion (or more than one) to the pillars

    Surprisingly, no. At least according to the game's good/evil value.
    The final task of the Grimoire of Pestilential Thought (murdering a companion) has a +8 Evil value, which is more than twice that of killing Trias.

    [Deleted User]
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    ArthasII wrote: »
    Got it. I always felt
    that book was "incomplete" as missing pages.

    Tbh I think that the book is a good source for some Evil stat bonuses (as an answer to the Tears of Salier-Du, etc). None of it's rewards are worth the price you pay. Some stat bonuses, the new Evil weapon I have sketched out, and some other stuff might make it more appealing.

    A scroll of Blindness can be purchased for next to nothing from most Mage stores.

    A scroll of Adder's Kiss can be obtained off a corpse in Ragpicker's Square. More importantly a companion should be worth more than Level 2 Scroll.

    A scroll of Power Word: Kill is the closest the book gets to being "worth it", but killing a companion (especially after you already gave one away) is a high price to pay for a Level 9 spell that is not only available elsewhere more cheaply, but is also just yet another high level spell that functionally has the text "kill the target unless [condition]".

  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 974
    I love th Moridor's Box tattoo

    Aquadrizzt
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    @ArthasII

    Here's where I am right now.
    Blood: +50 Lore, [some exclusive low level spell scroll]
    Servitude: +1 Int, [some exclusive mid level spell scroll]
    Betrayal: +1 Wis, Primordial Sin, [some exclusive high level spell scroll]

    This would let both LG characters and Evil characters get +2 to stats in a relatively exclusive fashion. I don't think the Tears of Saleiru-Dei really make sense as an LG exclusive item, so maybe I'll stick with the idea that there are 3 alignment groups (LG/LN/NG; NE/LE/CE; CN/CG/TN[?]) and weaken the alignment restriction while keeping them TNO. Each would get a mutable weapon, so now all I'd need is to come up with some ways for Chaotic characters to get stat bonuses.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    Zooming towards an initial release of the Minor Tattoos rework.

    Should tattoos be freely removable (as they are now), or should you have to talk to Fell to add/remove them?

  • MothorMothor Member Posts: 151
    Aquadrizzt wrote: »
    Minor tattoos are about halfway done being implemented. I've had to revise some of my designs (including the Anarchist getting a bonus against factols </3), so it's taking longer than I expected.

    I was looking at Celestial Fire and Entropic Blade and realized that they form two thirds of a cycle (LG, CN, NE). I have already identified a fitting way to get such a monumentally Evil item, but I am unsure of what exactly it should do. Here's a design for it, as well as a hint about the acquisition method.
    The Primordial Sin
    Combat Abilities:
    - Soulripping: on a critical hit, living, humanoid creatures must save vs. death (-4 penalty) or be slain and turned into a Lesser Shadow
    - Unholy: deals 2 additional damage to non-Evil creatures and 4 additional damage (total) to Good creatures
    Enchanted: +3
    THAC0: +3 bonus
    Damage: +3 bonus
    Usable by: Evil characters

    Comments: To get such an Evil weapon, one must simply do the single most Evil thing in the game.


    That weapon sounds quite awesome!

    Will it be included in the next update?

    Gimme, gimme :)

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    @Mothor, next update is gonna be a first pass on tattoos (most of the minor ones, some of the major ones) and the rework of the Grimoire of Pestilential Thought (including Primordial Sin).

  • EbonKnightEbonKnight Member Posts: 5
    edited July 2020
    So, while I like a lot of what this mod does, I cannot help but feel like it is overall a straight up nerf/difficulty mod. You've nerfed mages to the ground, replaced 3d6 and 4d4 weapons with at best 1d8 with some good passives and haven't done anything to make enemies weaker in any way. Now I'm not saying PT is a particularly gruelling or hard game or anything, but, overall, I can't help but feel that this mod overall just makes combat even longer and more annoying. Combat was never the focus of the game, yet there IS still a bunch of it, however you play it, and just straight up nerfing both weapon damage and mage gear makes it harder for all classes.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    EbonKnight wrote: »
    So, while I like a lot of what this mod does, I cannot help but feel like it is overall a straight up nerf/difficulty mod. You've nerfed mages to the ground, replaced 3d6 and 4d4 weapons with at best 1d8 with some good passives and haven't done anything to make enemies weaker in any way. Now I'm not saying PT is a particularly gruelling or hard game or anything, but, overall, I can't help but feel that this mod overall just makes combat even longer and more annoying. Combat was never the focus of the game, yet there IS still a bunch of it, however you play it, and just straight up nerfing both weapon damage and mage gear makes it harder for all classes.

    In my opinion, combat is treated as largely incidental in the original game. Whether that is a good thing or not is up to personal taste. This mod is really just a passion project because 1) I *really* like Planescape and 2) I think Planescape permits an interesting exploration of item and spell design space that you can't really do in the more serious games like Baldur's Gate. Making combat and equipment a little less meaningless is a welcome perk.

    I will concede that I significantly nerfed some of the more powerful endgame items (most notably Celestial Fire, Ring of Thex, Ring Zero, and Magus Guard). Mark of the Savant (the 4d4 weapon) definitely got hit with a smaller nerf (average damage now is 8+2*str vs. vanilla's 12+str) as well. However, I do not think that I have "nerfed mages to the ground"; Mage TNOs in Planescape are just... so incredibly powerful, even early, that playing a Fighter or a Thief feels like playing on hard mode. My hope is that with these changes (and some new items I'm working on right now), class balance for TNO will feel pretty equal and people can play any of the classes without feeling like they're being punished. To that end, I think this mod is a good first step.

    As a slight aside on the topic of nerfing Mage gear, Item Revisions for BG2 has a similarly tough love for Mages, most notably via nerfing the Robe of Vecna by removing its absurd +5 cast speed bonus. There really aren't that many stats that Mages care about, so the developers of BG and PST tended to just throw massive amounts of good Mage stats on an item as a way of being like "and here's something for the Mage". I don't think that holds up well when PST spends most of its time at the point where Mages grossly outclass Fighters.

    I will say that upon the introduction of my Major Tattoos system, TNOs of many different playstyles will be significantly more powerful. Some of the Mage ones are truly dirty. The mod in its current release also substantially buffed all of the companions' gear, especially the Fighters', and so combat shouldn't be substantially longer in its current incarnation per se.

    As for future plans, I would love to at some point implement an equivalent of SCS or Tactics for Planescape. Obviously not as difficult, but I still think it'd be neat as a way to expand upon the one thing I think Planescape does poorly (intentionally or otherwise).

  • EbonKnightEbonKnight Member Posts: 5
    Yeah, I kinda get what you mean. That being said, I don't necessarily think mages were THAT much better honestly, for the simple reason that most of the more powerful spells take bloody AGES to cast, and mages take AGES to level + you can't just rest in dungeons, so you have to optimize dem spells or you'll end up in melee anyway. Also, the fact that some of their gear was super op was balanced by super op thief gear like that famous one you nerfed to hell too (good call!) and ofc the endgame warrior weapons (ditto). I mean, overall, yeah, the way you did it is a lot more balanced, but it does come at a cost of the party manning up for TNO becoming weaker. I'm not a huge fan of that, but I won't say it's not balanced - your mod certainly is a hell of a lot more so than the game itself, that's without a question. So, when's the new version with the fun new tattoos coming along? :)

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    @EbonKnight, I'm finishing up the normal tattoos right now and then I'm gonna start working through my massive list of major ones. I'm probably gonna do a first release with enough to make it interesting and then come back later for a second round of the major ones (because they are really fun to design). All of the classes should feel the love with the major tattoos.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    edited July 2020
    Alright no update yet but I have finished implementing all of the minor Tattoos (listed below). The "General" tattoos are freely available and cost 500 copper and can be used by TNO, Annah and Dak'kon. All other tattoos listed here cost 1000 copper and can only be used by TNO. The only exception to this usability rule is the Death-in-Life tattoo, for engine reasons, which can only be used on Dak'kon and Annah.
    GENERAL
    - Might: Strength +1
    - Reflexes: Dexterity +1
    - Endurance: Constitution +1
    - Reason: Intelligence +1
    - Insight: Wisdom +1
    - Presence: Charisma +1
    - Health: Maximum Hit Points +10%
    - Accuracy: THAC0 +1
    - Bloodletting: Weapon damage +1
    - Warding: Armor Class +1

    COMPANION
    - Annah: +5% Critical Hit Chance
    - Dak'kon*: Weapon Speed +2, Casting Speed +2
    - Fall-from-Grace: Experience Gain +15%
    - Ignus: Fire Damage +50%; immunity to fire and magical fire
    - Morte: Luck + 1
    - Nordom: Intelligence +2, Wisdom -1
    - Vhailor*: Axiomatic weapons (+2 damage vs. non-lawful, +4 vs. chaotic)

    FACTION
    - Anarchist: 25% chance on hit to cause confusion for 2 rounds (save vs. spell negates)
    - Dustman*: +2 to hit and damage against Undead
    - Godsman: Blessed (+1 to hit and saves)
    - Sensate: Damage: +20%; Resistances: -10%
    - Xaositect*: Protection from Law (+2 to saves/AC vs. Lawful)

    QUEST
    Alley of Dangerous Angles
    - Razor Angel Ink: Protection from Evil (+2 to saves/AC vs. Evil)
    - Darkalley Shiv Ink*: Protection from Good (+2 to saves/AC vs. Good)
    - Black Rose*: Protection from Extremity (+2 to saves/AC vs. LG CG LE CE)

    The Crier of Es-Annon
    - Dreams of Es-Annon: +4 to saves vs. Spells
    - Graves of Es-Annon: +4 to saves vs. Death

    Corvus and Katrina
    - The Joining: When you hit with an attack, nearby allies gain +1 to hit for 2 rounds (can stack).
    - Spite: Enemies striking you lose 1 AC for 2 rounds (can stack).

    Sebastion v. Grosuk
    - Grosuk's Demise: Enemies that hit you take 1d4 fire damage.
    - Sebastion's End: +10% Magic Resistance

    Severed Arm (Yours)
    - Wasting Darkness: Armor Class +1, Stealth +25%, Charisma -1 (Invoke: 1500 XP +10% Stealth, Blindness spell)
    - Weeping Stones: Lore +25, Cold Res +50% (Invoke: 1500 XP +10% Cold Resistance)
    - Silent Coins: +25% Pick Pocket (Invoke: 1500 XP +10% Pick Pocket)

    Moridor's Box
    - The Open Box: immune to fear, Wisdom -1
    - The Banished Fiend : +2 to hit fiends; banish (slay) fiends on a critical hit (no save)

    Miscellaneous
    - The Number of Ku'Yin: Protection from Chaos (+2 to saves/AC vs. chaotic)
    - Restless Dead: Protection from Undead (+2 to saves/AC vs. undead), Bless 2/day
    - Tenement Shadows: +25% Stealth, Adders Kiss 1/day
    - Death-in-Life: once per day, on death, resurrect after 3s with 50% HP. (Dak'kon, Annah only)

    While I work on major tattoos, I'd also love to hear any suggestions people have for quests/plot points they think deserve a set of tattoos (bonus points if there is a player choice that alters the outcome).

  • LK2020LK2020 Member Posts: 15
    This is great, love most of the changes they make much more thematic sense. I can't see any difference between the two releases (Wands still are wands, Celestial Fire is still LG only etc). Is the version on Github updated please?

  • LK2020LK2020 Member Posts: 15
    edited August 2020
    I'm using 0.2 download (Optix has no Knock ability as well) I can't see any of the changelog changes in effect (using the console to create items). Also did you plan to include the Razorvine upgrade from Ravel (listed in the setup tp)? Looking forward to the tattoo release!. Is the plan for the L12 tattoos to replace the specialisation ones or just if you reach level 12 in that class (which I personally prefer)? If it is the latter how is the generalist to be implemented? I really like the idea of Major Tattoos, very thematic, especially making game quests or event more meaningful.

    Post edited by LK2020 on
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 309
    Hi Aquadrizzt, I have a question. Would you recommend your mod for a first time player? I played the game before, but it was 20 years ago, and didn't finish it. So I consider myself a first timer still.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    @LK2020: Glad you're enjoying it. It's a niche project but I'm enjoying workign on it. I thought I uploaded it properly but it might have decided to not work. I'll look into that.

    Honestly I hadn't thought about it but I think making the specialization tattoos require L12 instead is fine. The initial round of major tattoos is that they allow you to feel like a fully realized archetype. For the Generalist, I haven't implemented it yet, but I *think* there is a way (via an invisible creature trick) where you could cast spells from your items that will let you change on the fly. IDK how smooth it'll feel but the idea has potential and I'll see it through.

    @Ludwig_H, tbh IDK. Item balance in base game is... lacking. If you intend to play Fighter or Thief, I think this mod will substantially improve your gameplay experience and will encourage you seek out new weapons. If you're playing a Mage, there is a lot of nerfs to Mage items; you'll still feel super powerful, but it shouldn't leave you feeling like you're being punished for not playing a Mage.

    Ludwig_II
  • LK2020LK2020 Member Posts: 15
    Great thank you. That's an interesting take on the implementation sounds good.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    Independent of tattoo revisions and the weirdness with the v0.2 changes not having gone live, another issue was brought to my attention: wIthout knowing the conditions/spawn locations for items, some of the weapon classes (specifically Axes) are largely unavailable, especially prior to leaving Sigil the first time.

    Most of this issue comes from the fact that Coaxmetal's shop (the source of most purchasable endgame weapons) is that they are locked behind largely arbitrary requirements, such as specializations (e.g. Blindsider) or totally arbitrary requirements that you wouldn't know triggered a restock (e.g. Butcherer of Innocents requires a murder count of at least 29).

    Should items like this have their restrictions loosened or removed entirely, or would that cause them to lose their charm?

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    Myrthian over on GitHub raised a point that I am not entirely sure how to address, so more requests for input from anyone so inclined.

    Fighter and Thief TNOs still fall way behind the martial companions in terms of Armor Class, even in the early/mid game (Mages do too, but they have access to half a dozen AC buffs from their spells and aren't in melee range usually anyway, so I am less sympathetic). All of the companions either have ridiculous base ACs (Morte, Nordom, Ignus) or actual armor (Dak'kon, Vhailor, Grace, Annah), whereas TNO gets neither of these things, and even an "optimized" lategame TNO might only reach 4 or 5 AC without spells. (For comparison, most of the companions hover somewhere in the -3 to 0 range with upgraded gear.)

    Now, the obvious solution here would just be "give TNO some armor to wear". But no, that is the easy way out. The coward's way, even. It also interferes with my major tattoos, which I've spent too much time working on to scuttle in favor of three or four boring armor pieces. One of the major tattoos will grant a really low base AC, but other than that, I don't want AC gear to be the only thing a player can choose without feeling like they're hamstringing themselves.

    The other "easy" solution, and one that I am more amenable to, is giving TNO a slight buff to his base Armor Class and then offering a few more sources of AC. By my calculations, TNO needs somewhere between +5 and +7 additional bonuses to AC to have options for maintaining a competitive AC with his companions. Buffing TNO's base AC to 8 would give +2 AC "for free" and is totally in line with his design of extensively scarred, resilient flesh.

    Another easy thing to do is to buff the Tattoo of Warding from +1 to +2 Armor Class. At +1 AC, it competes with the (generally better) +1 Attribute tattoos anyway (in most cases, you'd rather have +1 Dex than +1 AC anyway). As an aside, the thac0 and damage tattoos also suffer from this problem, and now I kind of want to buff them to +2 as well. (Tattoo rework when?)

    A third thing that I am thinking of doing (which would also help emphasize Fighter/Thieves niche as not Mages) is add weapon style bonuses to all weapon classes. Wielding a "one handed" weapon (axe, club, dagger, mace) would grant +2 Armor Class. Hammers (the only two-handed weapon) would get a +2 to minimum damage. Gauntlets and punch daggers would retain their +1 Attack per Round. The important thing to note here is that only Fighters and Thieves (and F/Ts, for Annah's sake) would gain these benefits. Mages (and Priests) get nothing. This might help empower Fighters and Thieves a bit, which is one of the core goals of this mod.

    Collectively, these changes (TNO has a base AC of 8, Tattoos of Warding give +2 AC, some weapons give +2 AC to Fighters/Thieves) when utilized together would give TNO a bonus of +7 AC over what is currently available, which would put them in line with Dak'kon and Vhailor with moderate optimization.

    As a semi-aside, there is also a totally unused item slot (labeled "Hands") that is present on TNO, Annah, Grace, Dak'kon, and Vhailor. I can't come up with any clever uses for it, but I'm sure there is something that could be put there.

  • LK2020LK2020 Member Posts: 15
    edited August 2020
    Personally I prefer the natural AC bonus to TNO. There are many lore reasons he could have it (he appearance as you mention being one). Buffing the tattoos as well seems reasonable (+2) given fighters and thieves are always going to take more damage and mages still benefit from regen as all classes really go CON heavy for TNO (or should do :-)).

    Weapon style, so sort of mirror BG/D&D style bonuses, but upgrades applied to weapon type directly? How would you restrict mages from benefiting? IE If they are using daggers etc, bonus only applies if TNO is current class Fighter or Thief? Only thing that feels off if that is it you still get the fighter mastery bonuses if you maxed out then play a mage, so if that cross over is there feels like the other should be as well?

    Hand slot has always bothered me too. Gloves are not thematic and rings already accounted for... Activated items TNO holds maybe? Again not sure his this would work with 2 handed weapons (lore wise). However given it is Planescape it could be literally anything.

  • LK2020LK2020 Member Posts: 15
    Re Coaxmetal, really thematic items like the BOI seem fine to be locked behind requirements, agreed odd that they are semi secret, but TBH if you are using this mod you know about them already... bit meta granted. Unless they can be placed elsewhere, pre leaving Sigil. Then if you are playing an evil TNO you can decide to use the axe if you are willing to kill 29 people, for example.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    @LK2020, thank you for your input.

    I agree with you that a buff to TNO's natural AC and the AC tattoos are both the easiest and most appropriate ways to provide some additional AC. Your point about weapon styles is interesting; I guess it would only make sense for Mage TNOs to retain their weapon style bonuses, seeing as they maintain the bonus to attack, damage, and APR too. Punishing mage TNOs is also pretty incidental, because Armor sets their base AC to 2 anyway, so they are a lot less reliant on the bonuses from gear. As for the hand slot, maybe it could be used to hold a Charm such that it gives a permanent benefit. A lot of the charms could be reworked to offer permanent buffs in a variety of flavors; admittedly, I'm not a huge fan of consumables in cRPGs, so maybe I'm too willing to remove some of them.

    As for Coaxmetal, I understand that anyone playing this mod will probably be aware (via prior game knowledge or whatever) how to get specific weapons, but it still feels a bit... unintuitive to have to murder 29 people and then talk to one shopkeeper in a random side area in order to get endgame weapons. Some way of conveying when these kind of items become available would go a long way... but IDK how to do that without a fourth wall break.

  • LK2020LK2020 Member Posts: 15
    edited August 2020
    Yes any additional bonus Mages get from the AC are a bit meaningless given the standard there and it is more about levelling the field for TNO other classes. Same for the weapon style bonuses, I think mages should get them too, it just means more to a Fighter or Thief TNO.

    I don't disagree re consumables, they can be a pain to manage so a perm increase works, bit like the wrist slot really. Heart charm as a crystallised drop of TNO blood maybe, regen bonus? Follows the eyeball/intestines theme :-D.

    For the unlocks I guess it depends on mod scope. If they can be altered to be obtained elsewhere (using the BOI) as an example and the restrictions altered (Evil or Kill count to allow use, if that is even possible) that might work?

    Other than writing additional memories in (lets say practical or paranoid incarnation memory killing people triggers knowledge about the axe), not sure how the info can be provided to players...

    Post edited by LK2020 on
  • Tao_Sk8rTao_Sk8r Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2020
    Just curious if youve stumbled across any definitive answer on whether this mod is compatible with Unfinished business?

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,018
    @Tao_Sk8r, it should be. I haven't done anything to my knowledge that would interfere with UB. I even include reworks for items that UB restores and adds back to the game, so if there is incompatibility, I'll take steps to fix it.

    Tao_Sk8r
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