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Your Favourite Level 5 Wizard Enchantment Spell

Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,701
Enchantment spells can be very powerful, especially at lower levels, if used properly. It's sad that there are no Wizard Enchantment spells above Level 5, making this level a kind of cap for these spells. Still, these are quite powerful. Which one is your favourite?

The spells are linked below (from the wiki) for ease of reviewing the critical parameters:

Your Favourite Level 5 Wizard Enchantment Spell 37 votes

Chaos
45%
Son_of_ImoenrecklessheartAstafasNoonBalrog99redlineMatronaClobooinyoureyesArdulNeverusedGreenWarlockJaheiras_WitnessDragonOfShadesSssiksseilorEnuhalJoenSoDrakeICN 17 votes
Domination
8%
BallpointManZilbertbone1 3 votes
Feeblemind
35%
MERLANCEelminsterFinneousPJThacoBellRaduzielsmady3monicoRavenslightAbi_DalzimNimransemiticgodSomeSortLudovikH 13 votes
Hold Monster
10%
TingelFlashburnKamigoroshilroumen 4 votes
Ravenslighttypo_tilly
«1

Comments

  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Chaos
    In an interesting sidenote, chaos have larger AOE and higher save vs spell penalty than hold monster which makes hold monster almost redundant (the bonus to attack against immobile creautures is nice of course) while domination has the same penalty vs spell as feeblemind, but the former gives lets you use the charmed creature to attack his former allies, while the latter just makes it stand still, making the latter redundant.

    Also interesting, feeblemind, according to the wiki, has a duration of 1000 IRL hours. That means someone was so invested in a fight, he left his computer on for 17 days.

    RavenslightAstafas
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,050
    edited April 2018
    Feeblemind
    I voted for feeblemind because its one of the few mind affecting spells that works on dragons.

    Also like DrakeICN said it lasts 1000 hrs.

    ThacoBellsemiticgodRavenslight
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 782
    Chaos
    If given a choice between a single-target disabler and a multi-target disabler... I'm going to go for multi-target every time. It feels kind of bad to use my mage's aura on a save-or-lose and then surprise, surprise, the enemy saves. Chaos, due to being Area, isn't negated by Invisibility potions or sequencers that seemingly every single SCS spellcaster has.

    Ravenslight
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited April 2018
    Feeblemind
    As someone that did a Trilogy run with an Enchanter I'll go with Feeblemind.

    Any battle usually is a bunch of weakling and one or two major threats. Chaos makes the battle harder as you have to chase the weakling around the map and they may eventually land an attack.

    Domination needs to micromanage AoE spells and gives you one more character to manage. On top of that, if someone kills the dominated enemy you lose the XP.

    Hold Monster is a close call, but Feeblemind lasts way longer, so you can just have a beer and have absolutely no worries about the length of a fight.

    Post edited by Raduziel on
    Ravenslight
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,425
    Feeblemind
    I have never been a fan of confusion/fear inflicting spells. The LAST thing I want to do is chase my enemies around the whole map, pulling other other mobs as I go.

    It also helps that a landed feeblemind is death.

    RaduzielRavenslight
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,701
    edited April 2018
    I wish there were higher level wizard Enchantment spells in BG. They are just so interesting. I have a number of ideas for new higher level enchantment spells, but sadly I don't know the technicalities of modding, and currently don't have the time to learn it as well. :/ If I did, I could have made some really cool spells. B)

    ThacoBellZaghoulRavenslight
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    Hold Monster
    Hold monster because I always assumed before that it is not a mind affecting spell.

    Ravenslight
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited April 2018
    Feeblemind
    I'm planning a run with Cleric 3 -> Enchanter using my spell tweak mod just to be able to spam Sequencers and Contigencies with Doom/Greater Malison followed by Feeblemind.

    -10 penalty will assure that Feeblemind lands over anything.

    ThacoBellRavenslight
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,809
    Hold Monster
    Feeblemind is pretty obvious, but paralyzing a group of enemies bunched up against your tank after you debuffed them with Greater Malison is so satisfying for some reason.

    Ravenslight
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 520
    Chaos
    I don't care so much about the type of disable - the number on the save penalty is what makes chaos my clear choice (and it is, in fact, the only one of these spells I still regularily use). For most of the game, greater malison isn't even needed to keep this useful, but add the additional -4, and even in ToB you can happily confuse hordes of enemies.

    Ravenslight
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 904
    Chaos
    Chaos might not be the best of these spells, but it's the one I use and like the most. There's just something satisfying seeing the chaos spread.

    I've had this idea of doing an rp-run with a chaos mage, using only the most chaotic and random of spells (hello Lightning bolt!). Then there would be Chaos and chaos a'plenty.

    DrakeICNRavenslight
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,134

    I wish there were higher level wizard Enchantment spells in BG. They are just so interesting. I have a number of ideas for new higher level enchantment spells, but sadly I don't know the technicalities of modding, and currently don't have the time to learn it as well. :/ If I did, I could have made some really cool spells. B)

    It's too much of toss up for me between Chaos and FM, as both are just too well liked. If given the option of other, I would've said a FM with an AOE like Chaos., but that's definitely a higher level spell. As mentioned, it seems like the enchantment school could definitely use higher lvl spells.
    Flash some pretty lights at a group, sorta like the Statue of Liberty's torch neuralyzer from Men in Black, and bam, the whole lot of 'em just stand there doing nothing ( for the aforementioned 1000 hrs, just for good measure). B)

    ThacoBellRavenslight
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Chaos
    Zaghoul said:

    I wish there were higher level wizard Enchantment spells in BG. They are just so interesting. I have a number of ideas for new higher level enchantment spells, but sadly I don't know the technicalities of modding, and currently don't have the time to learn it as well. :/ If I did, I could have made some really cool spells. B)

    It's too much of toss up for me between Chaos and FM, as both are just too well liked. If given the option of other, I would've said a FM with an AOE like Chaos., but that's definitely a higher level spell.
    One of the wild surge rolls is "Spell cast with AOE". Get the double lvl 1 spells memorized ring and stock up on "Nahals reckless dweomer". Of course the chance of getting the AOE roll is 1/100... and one of the possible wild surge rolls is "caster becomes target", oh, and also, AOE effect does not distinguish between allies and enemies so you might turn your own party into a bunch of drooling imbeciles, but still. Every 100th cast of feeblemind will equal fun fun fun. Especially if you also get "roll twice more" and the "no saving throw allowed" surge on top of the AOE surge. I did that once, got a finger of death with AOE and no save. The problem of course, was that I was also in range of the AOE, so I had the game paused until I had the courage to unpause it, like Bill staying put in his chair for a breather after he was five finger heart explosion punched.

    JoenSoThacoBellRavenslightZaghoul
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,816
    Hold Monster
    I like holding monsters. Handling them really soothes ones mind.

    SomeSortRavenslightbooinyoureyes
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Chaos
    I enjoy watching people run around like idiots

    Ravenslight
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,134
    DrakeICN said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I wish there were higher level wizard Enchantment spells in BG. They are just so interesting. I have a number of ideas for new higher level enchantment spells, but sadly I don't know the technicalities of modding, and currently don't have the time to learn it as well. :/ If I did, I could have made some really cool spells. B)

    It's too much of toss up for me between Chaos and FM, as both are just too well liked. If given the option of other, I would've said a FM with an AOE like Chaos., but that's definitely a higher level spell.
    One of the wild surge rolls is "Spell cast with AOE". Get the double lvl 1 spells memorized ring and stock up on "Nahals reckless dweomer". Of course the chance of getting the AOE roll is 1/100... and one of the possible wild surge rolls is "caster becomes target", oh, and also, AOE effect does not distinguish between allies and enemies so you might turn your own party into a bunch of drooling imbeciles, but still. Every 100th cast of feeblemind will equal fun fun fun. Especially if you also get "roll twice more" and the "no saving throw allowed" surge on top of the AOE surge. I did that once, got a finger of death with AOE and no save. The problem of course, was that I was also in range of the AOE, so I had the game paused until I had the courage to unpause it, like Bill staying put in his chair for a breather after he was five finger heart explosion punched.

    Heh. Yup, I'm pretty sure I had that happen to party once with a wild flesh to stone surge once. Nasty business that was, nasty.

  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    Feeblemind
    I'm too used to confused/panicked targets completely ignoring their condition and acting normally to really rely on either of them. I only use Chaos to disable enemy spellcasters now, since it can at least be counted on to stop casting.

    SomeSort
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,701
    edited April 2018
    Speaking of higher level Enchantment spells, what do you think about this spell that I devised a couple of months ago in my Spell Research thread:

    Definite Doom

    Spellbook: Wizard
    Level: 9
    School: Enchantment
    Casting Time: 8
    Range: Visual range of the caster
    AoE: 1 creature
    Duration: 1 round/ 5 levels
    Saving Throws: None
    Incantation: "Certus Infelicitas"

    This highly potent spell inflicts tremendous bad luck on the affected creature. Unlike other spells of its kind, which lower saving throws, this spell causes the affected creature to fail each and every saving throw it has to make for the duration of the spell. This spell ignores the Magic Resistance of the creature, if any. After the spell's duration has run out, the creature can make saving throws normally again, provided it survives through this brief period of utter misfortune.
    This follows the line of spells like Doom and Greater Malison. What do you say about its balance and usefulness?

    JoenSoZaghoul
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    Hold Monster
    Multiple rounds is not necessary because if you cast one disabler the creature will be as good as dead.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 904
    Chaos
    Yeah, I think Definite Doom needs some element of failure to not be on the same level as Gorion's lightning.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,701
    edited April 2018
    How about setting the time to just 2 rounds? That would provide a balanced time for landing the other spells. As you can see, the spell alone can't do anything unless followed by something like Finger of Death or anything like that. Although it is to be noticed that certain monsters have innate immunites to certain effects, so a Definite Doom is not always a Definite Death for every monster (it's the following spell that is more important ;) ).

  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Feeblemind
    I imagine most people would just follow with a minor-sequencered Chromatic Orb for a one-round kill. Toss in Web or Blind in your second sequencer slot to still disable monsters immune to instant death effects.

    I’ll also say the spell would be a moderate nerf to Archers, because the ability to stack huge save maluses with Called Shot is their best feature by Throne of Bhaal.

    RaduzielRik_Kirtaniya
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    edited April 2018
    Hold Monster
    Sure. The premise of the spell is good and it makes sense to have at least some time until a spell hits but in essence you only need one to stick to the subject.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,701
    Still, I guess Definite Doom is not as powerful as Imprisonment, considering that both are level 9 spells. ;) The only advantage it has over Imprisonment is that you get the treasures that the monster holds by using this spell followed by something. (Imprisoning the treasures along with the monster is the only reason why I don't like to use Imprisonment. I like cool magic items! B) )

    If only I could actually make this spell... ;)

  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    Feeblemind
    It'd be OP at a lower level, but as a level 9 spell, I agree that it really isn't that game-breaking. It's single-target, and most bosses you'd face at that high a level will also have MR and probably spell protections as well, so it's generally weaker than Imprisonment. Hell, this loses to Minor Spell Turning, doesn't it?

    Rik_KirtaniyaThacoBell
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,701

    Hell, this loses to Minor Spell Turning, doesn't it?

    Indeed, it does. ;) Though as the description states, it ignores the MR just like Imprisonment itself.

    By the way, I have always wondered, can (Minor) Spell Turning rebound Imprisonment back to the caster? I've never used that spell much, but if it can do this, I'll be sure to use it next time.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,134
    @Rik_Kirtaniya Sounds like it could work. even ST's lowered to -10 would interesting. As for duration we already have timestop for 3 rds with al the mayhem that can bring, and as mentioned imprisonment which is already practically a death scenario. At the very least it seems like it would be an awesome HLA for an enchanter specialist in particular.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,164
    edited April 2018
    For ideas for more Enchantment spells some good ones come from the Player's Handbook. Here's a few examples:

    Enchant an Item is a 6th level Enchantment Spell but basically unsuitable for the game since you can just save scum the risk of penalties away, I get why they didn't implement that.

    Eyebite is a 6th level Enchantment spell and I believe our good friend @Raduziel actually implemented a version of this in one of his wonderful mods.

    Mass Suggestion is also 6th level and would function mostly like a Chaos or Confusion spell, only since you are making them follow your suggestion they would all be performing one action rather than a randomized assortment of them.

    Charm Plants is a 7th level Enchantment spell and I suppose if you really need to stop the passing Shambling Mound it works...it can also be used as an entangle spell on normal plants with a -4 penalty. Still, very underwhelming.

    Antipathy-Sympathy 8th level. Duration 2 hrs/level. This starts to get interesting. Choose which effect, Antipathy or Sympathy. Antipathy makes all enemies save vs. spell and if they fail they flee the 10 ft. area. If they save vs. spell they can stay with a Dex point loss per round until they lose 4 (but no less than 3).

    Sympathy makes all enemies save vs. spell and if they fail stay in the area. If they succeed, nothing happens, but must make another saving throw 1D6 turns later. (we'd probably have to settle on a fixed amount like 3 for implementation but what do I know)

    Binding is 8th level and seems to work on everything, even extraplanars, but you need a circle of binding for them specifically so maybe not for implementation in game. You choose one from a number of effects, from holding to sleep to shrinking, but they are all basically death sentences because the duration lasts insanely long such as 1 YEAR per level. For simplicities sake i'd go with the first effect, Chaining. Target is held until literally the end of time and radiates an Antipathy spell as described above.

    Mass Charm 8th level and self explanatory 30 foot cube -2 saves

    The idea @Rik_Kirtaniya had for an auto-fail save effect is actually implemented in a level 8 Enchantment spell, Otto's Irresistible Dance. You can't stop dancing (so no taking actions), you can't make saves unless you roll a 20, and lose -4 to AC. But it's a touch effect, so your wizard has to land it. 1D4 +1 rounds. Not per level, just 1D4+1 rounds. No saving throw for the effect itself.

    There are no usable Enchantment spells of the 9th level. You already gain the effect of the only 9th lvl Enchantment spell, Succor, by your Pocket Plane ability come TOB.

    Post edited by WarChiefZeke on
    RaduzielZaghoulGrond0Rik_Kirtaniya
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 904
    Chaos
    Are there any spells that work like an inversion of the Slippery mind feat? Would be interesting with a spell that forces enemies to make more saving throws, rather than giving them a penalty.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
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