Suggestion regarding cloud saves

Taro94

I know cloud saves are going to be implemented at some point on Steam and (hopefully!) GOG. I'm not sure if this hasn't been discussed already, but I'd want to say I believe cloud saves should cover more than just save files.

Progress in NWN is stored not only in save files, but also in character files (local vault) and BioWare databases. As such, I think cloud saves, once implemented, should also cover the local vault and the database folders.

I'm speaking from experience, because even though the Diamond Edition on GOG supports cloud saves, I've had to manually copy my database (and at times character) files to another computer, making the feature pretty useless.

Long story short, please consider covering character and database files in the NWN:EE cloud saves.

JuliusBorisov

Thanks for your input! I've added the link to this discussion (https://trello.com/c/tY8UCv1T/119-gog-galaxy-support)

Sherincall

Well, the character is saved in the sav file. As for the database, that might be very problematic for some more niche uses of it. Imagine playing the same database-using module on multiple PCs. If you have cloud save, should the databases be merged (not always possible)? Or should they be tied to the .sav file - in which case, what if you were using the database to communicate between different saves?

Taro94

Sherincall said:

Well, the character is saved in the sav file. As for the database, that might be very problematic for some more niche uses of it. Imagine playing the same database-using module on multiple PCs. If you have cloud save, should the databases be merged (not always possible)? Or should they be tied to the .sav file - in which case, what if you were using the database to communicate between different saves?

Yes, the character is in the sav file, but there are various transitions between modules - playing any sort of a multi-module campaign is an example, but not the only one. Sure, more often than not you will hang your playthrough in a module (so in a .sav file) and not between them (in a .bic file), but if we don't need to worry about having to start a new module if you wish to use the same character on another PC, then it will be better overall. The localvault folder is also very small in comparison to the save files (two orders of magnitude smaller), so it shouldn't be a problem to include it in the cloud, I think.

Regarding the database conflict, I think it's a relatively valid point, but then again you need to consider the fact that conflicts are possible in every cloud solution, even if only save files were to by synchronized. If somebody decides to use cloud saves, then they should (at least in theory) have the same "set" of save and database files on all their PCs.

I think the benefits are worth the risk of these issues (and they are a given in any cloud synchronization), especially considering there are modules making use of the databases in a manner akin to save files (even including an official DLC, Infinite Dungeons).

I feel that if cloud saves were implemented as they are for the Diamond Edition on GOG (without characters and db), they'd lose a lot of their usefulness - especially for less tech savvy players who'd launch, say, Infinite Dungeons only to discover their dungeon is not there despite having their saves synched with the cloud.

And the database folder, just like the localvault one, is usually two orders of magnitude smaller in size than a single actual save file, so I think adding them to the cloud is pretty feasible.

Sherincall

Right, I wasn't concerned about the size. Localvault should be synced across all devices. There's plenty of "Value-add" opportunities here as well, such as having a global character vault you can upload your toons to, etc.

The issue with DB is that you cannot merge them, and you cannot have multiple copies. For saves, if you overwrite the same save on two machines, the cloud sync could simply keep both copies, tagging them appropriately. With the DB you need to pick one (bigger? newer?) and that might break some games. Especially if modules are creative in their use of database - I think yours would qualify there.

But I agree, the DB is an integral part of the saved game.

Taro94

I see. I've only used GOG Galaxy cloud for games, so I thought that save files, too, can only be overwritten just like DBs. What you mentioned, the possibility of saving both saves in case of a conflict, is not a feature of the Galaxy cloud and if it is featured by the Steam cloud, then I agree that syncing DBs would be more problematic than regular saves.

Sherincall

That's probably because GOG just uploaded the files without thinking about how NWN handles them at all. Saves in NWN are in folders like "000000 - quicksave", "000003 - dragon", etc.. These folder names don't really have meaning other than that the part before the dash is ignored when the name is displayed in game. So you could easily keep your saves as "PC1_000003 - dragon" and "PC2_000003 - dragon", and it would work.

NWN doesn't care about the folder names, just uses them to display the save name in the dialog and to sort, but they don't have to follow any naming convention. So all GOG needed to do was prepend a unique ID to each save.