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Pickpocket at 100 and merchants still catch me stealing!

I'm noticing that even though my Rogue has a 100 pickpocket score he is getting spotted trying to steal from merchants probably 80% of the time (if not more). Am I doing something wrong? Is there a mod that addresses this? etc

Comments

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 186
    Depending on what kind of item it is, you'll receive penalties to your pickpocket.

    In the original games I think it was based on weight, so heavier things had bigger penalties.

    In the Enhanced Editions I think it's based on item types. So potions, miscellaneous trinkets and such have low penalties. Weapons and Armor have high penalties.

    So if you have a score of 100, and you're trying to steal something with an 80 point penalty, then you've only got a 20% chance of success. You'd need a skill of 180 to max out your chance of success.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 327

    I'm noticing that even though my Rogue has a 100 pickpocket score he is getting spotted trying to steal from merchants probably 80% of the time (if not more). Am I doing something wrong? Is there a mod that addresses this? etc

    It's not a percentage chance, NPC's and shopkeepers have different detection rates and you will only succeed 100% of the time (actually i think there's always a 1% chance to fail, but don't quote me on it) for every target once you reach or exceed 250. Sounds crazy, but remember you can use potions of Thievery and Perception to temporarily increase by either 40 or 20 per potion and they do stack with themselves.

    Open Locks, Find/remove Traps, Set snare and Detect Illusion gain no benefit over 100, but Hide in shadows, move silently and Pick pockets do.

    Arunsun
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,020
    edited May 9
    The 1% chance of failure applied to pickpocketing (though I think the mechanics for this have changed in the EE and I'm not sure if there's still a critical failure chance). There is no chance of failure when stealing from shops if you have a high enough score. I have a vague memory that Bernard was the shopkeeper who was the most difficult to steal from and I think you needed 228 to guarantee success against him.

  • Lazlo_ArcadiaLazlo_Arcadia Member Posts: 36
    edited May 9
    @Borek Thank you so much...that is a ton of info I'd no idea of. The stacking potions thing is VERY helpful. I was begining to wonder if BGII:EE hadn't removed the pickpocket ability from merchants entirely and just made it some static number for everyone. Well, I guess I know where to continue putting my Rogue skill points as I level through the game.

    Are Set Traps not effected by your skill level? If so I'm assuming it must be level driven? Unless you modify it via Rogues Rebalanced or something.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 327

    @Borek Thank you so much...that is a ton of info I'd no idea of. The stacking potions thing is VERY helpful. I was begining to wonder if BGII:EE hadn't removed the pickpocket ability from merchants entirely and just made it some static number for everyone. Well, I guess I know where to continue putting my Rogue skill points as I level through the game.

    Are Set Traps not effected by your skill level? If so I'm assuming it must be level driven? Unless you modify it via Rogues Rebalanced or something.

    Set Traps is a percentage skill, you will always succeed at 100, if you have less and fail then there is a smaller chance for that fail to be a critical fail and do some damage to you. The damage/utility of the trap is based on your level, there's charts on the BG wiki with specific info. So basically it's a simple success or fail to set the trap, regardless of damage/level.

    Note that special traps gained from Thief HLA's are completely separate and will always succeed, Set Traps is purely for the basic traps and, in the case of the bounty hunter, kit based ones.

    Note that you can raise all the thief skills past 100, but most of them gain no benefit from doing so as i mentioned above, although wearing heavier armour types can reduce some thief skills so in rare cases you may wish to go a bit higher if you want to still have an effective score of 100 and plan to wear armour.

  • Lazlo_ArcadiaLazlo_Arcadia Member Posts: 36
    Very helpful. Thank you!

    Any thoughts of good mods for Rogues?

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 327

    Very helpful. Thank you!

    Any thoughts of good mods for Rogues?

    I haven't used any rogue based mods myself, but i am sure the community has produced some excellent ones. Check the bg2:EE mods board and also your game version, it's important to get the correct version of a Mod for your version of the game.

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 489
    From a pure meta/power gaming standpoint, thanks to stacking potions - and the fact that their effects last a really long time - you really don't need to put any points in the pick pockets skill. You can simply buy an armful of potions (enough to get the score to 228 if Grond0's numbers are right [and they usually are]) and go on strategic crime sprees around the city, robbing shops, guards and non-joinable NPCs, etc.. Ironically enough, during those crime sprees you'll be able to steal even more potions of perception and master thievery from shops, enabling you to go on further crime sprees. Personally I find this a really cheesy way to play (though I've tried it in the past), but it's an option. I usually like my pick pockets score up in the 80-100% range for RP reasons: enough to have a good chance to pick a guard's pocket on the street. It feels realistic.

  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 842
    Grond0 said:

    The 1% chance of failure applied to pickpocketing (though I think the mechanics for this have changed in the EE and I'm not sure if there's still a critical failure chance). There is no chance of failure when stealing from shops if you have a high enough score. I have a vague memory that Bernard was the shopkeeper who was the most difficult to steal from and I think you needed 228 to guarantee success against him.

    I'd call Ribald the shopkeeper who is most difficult to steal from. :wink:

    Desiderata
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,020
    Well there are lots of shopkeepers where stealing is not possible at all. Let's just say that Bernard is the most difficult of the shops where stealing is possible ...

    ThacoBell
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 2,235

    Very helpful. Thank you!

    Any thoughts of good mods for Rogues?

    Expanded Thief Stronghold

    Assassinations

    Rogue Rebalancing Mod

    Might and Guile have some cool kits

    ThacoBell
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 45
    Pickpocketing works differently than lockpicking or find traps. While lockpicking and find traps usually just need 100 skill points to unlock absolutely everything in the game. Pickpocketing needs about 180 skill points to be able to pickpocket everything.

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,881
    IIRC, your pickpocket skill is for trying to steal from a level-0 NPC. Those of higher level require a higher PP score.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 5,240
    @inkblowout There are about 3 or 4 traps in the series that require 110 to disarm. A few locks as well.

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