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Question Regarding (Modding) Dual Class and Kits, and Weapon Proficiency

ReddbaneReddbane Member Posts: 222
In regards to fighters, when they Dual-Class into another class with lower weapon proficiency limits, like a mage, once they regain their fighter levels they can now achieve Grand-Mastery in any usable weapon type (so no swords for clerics) and style. In an upcoming mod I plan to create Fighter which Dual-Classes into a kit (mage)--which is possible using the correct code. However, I wish to put some limits upon the number of max proficiencies and types of styles that this Dual-class character can choose--like only 2 per weapon, and no access to certain weapon styles. My question is: is there an easy way to achieve this within this engine? As it so happens, the Dual-class character will simply use the fighter Prof. limits, so changing the (mage) kit weapon limits will only affect the character before it regains its fighter levels. Further, I am aware of the mod that makes all Dual-Class characters use the limits of their second class (Enforce PnP Proficiency Rules on Dual-Classed Characters by @subtledoctor), but I do not wish to change all dual-class characters, only this one (mage) kit, which the player dual classes into.

Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467
    What might work is to make it a fighter/mage kit (class = 7) instead of a mage kit (class = 1). Then it might (might!) respect whatever limits you set for that kit in weapprof.2da.

    The other option is to mimic whatever I did in my hardcore dual-classing mod. Which, I don't even remember what I did... I didn't have as good an understanding of dual-classing I made that. But I think it just amounts to setting the fighter class to a kit that has some proficiency restrictions. So, instead of msking the 2bd kit a mage kit - I assume it's a custom kit with some script or dialogue method to adopt it? Instead, make it a fighter kit, and use the same method to adopt it.

  • ReddbaneReddbane Member Posts: 222
    @subtledoctor
    But I thought it was (more or less) impossible for a character to have two kits at the same time? regardless of whether they have two base classes. For my purposes, the most important thing is that it is the Mage class that is "kitted", which means any solution that would rob the Mage class of its kit is off the table.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467
    edited May 2018
    Reddbane said:

    @subtledoctor
    But I thought it was (more or less) impossible for a character to have two kits at the same time? regardless of whether they have two base classes. For my purposes, the most important thing is that it is the Mage class that is "kitted", which means any solution that would rob the Mage class of its kit is off the table.

    Well, you should try making it a multiclass kit first. But I don't have any other ideas for how you could do it.

    TBH an even better idea is to forget this dual-classing nonsense and just play a multiclass kit.

  • ReddbaneReddbane Member Posts: 222
    @subtledoctor
    My general goal was to try to make something similar to the manner in which "Multi-classing" works in 3rd Edition (given my general modding project is to make 2e IE games similar to 3e); in which case 2e Dual-class functions somewhat closer to Multi classing in 3e rather than Demi-human multi classing in 2e. That is, in 3e you can start as one class but then choose to begin leveling in another class, rather than dividing your XP between two classes at the same time.

    With what you said, its beginning to make me think I should aiming to overhaul the entire dual class system/multi class system into something else.

    With that said, how would you go about limiting all (Warrior) dual-classes so that their max Weapon pips is 2?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467
    Reddbane said:

    My general goal was to try to make something similar to the manner in which "Multi-classing" works in 3rd Edition

    Honestly the system is so different I'm not sure it's really worth it. The signature feature of 3E multiclassing is that it keeps track of your overall level separately from each class level, and keeps you on an ever-progressing XP track no matter what class you advance in. 2E dual-classing only lets you change once, ever, and it allows you to start from 0 XP in your 2nd class such that you can gain 10 of more levels for less XP than it would take to gain a single further level in your first class.

    2E dual-classing, in a nutshell, is utterly broken and stupid. And unfortunately there is very little you can do in this engine to solve its problems.
    Reddbane said:

    With that said, how would you go about limiting all (Warrior) dual-classes so that their max Weapon pips is 2?

    Do what the dual-classing component in Tweaks does: set a kit automatically upon dual-classing. And don't allow a kit in the new class.

  • ReddbaneReddbane Member Posts: 222
    @subtledoctor
    Taking what you've said into consideration. I'm still planning to do a massive re-balancing of how dual classing works, to make it less convoluted and also reduce its potential for cheapness.

    As it stands I plan to make it function more like Prestige classes in 3e, by making Dual-classing only possible at level 2 (of the original class) and the secondary class, functioning as a kit, which functions as a toned down combo of the two classes abilities, based on large part on the combo prestige classes of 3e and 3.5.

    Something like this:
    A Level 2 Fighter dual classes to an Eldritch Knight, a mage kit (some possible stats i discussed in an earlier post )
    A Level 2 Fighter dual classes to an War Priest, a cleric kit
    A Level 2 Thief dual classes to a Arcane Trickster, a mage kit
    and so on and so forth.

    I was considering altering the dual classing requirements, and thus to set up your desired dual class you would have to choose a special Kit from the base classes kits.
    For example, if you wanted to dual class to an Eldritch Knight you would first pick the Eldritch Knight Fighter Kit, and when that Fighter Kit reaches level 2 it actives a script that applies the Mage "Eldritch Knight" Kit (and thus deactivates and replaces the Fighter kit) and thus the player can dual class into the Eldritch Knight Mage.

    I've already thought of a solution for the starting a new game in SOD or BG2 by giving the initial kit an passive ability at level 3 that automatically sets their level to 2, thus when starting BG2 they are simply ready to dual class, albeit starting as a level 2.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467
    edited May 2018
    A better possibility would be if Beamdog would add some kind of in-game method to manipulate the OriginalClass field... but I've been asking for that for ~5 years, across 3 patches, and never had sny satisfaction. :rage:

    Here's an idea: add a new fighter kit, identical in every way to a trueclass fighter, and replace the trueclass fighter with this one in the kit menus. Then in weaprof.2da, restrict the real trueclass fighter to 2 points in any weapon. Now, if anyone dual-classes and chooses a kit in their 2nd class, their 1st class will revert to trueclass (make sure to use AddKit, not SuperAddKit) and they will be restricted to 2 stars in any weapon, just like the (real, behind-the-scenes) trueclass fighter.

  • ReddbaneReddbane Member Posts: 222
    edited May 2018

    A better possibility would be if Beamdog would add some kind of in-game method to manipulate the OriginalClass field... but I've been asking for that for ~5 years, across 3 patches, and never had sny satisfaction. :rage:

    Here's an idea: add a new fighter kit, identical in every way to a trueclass fighter, and replace the trueclass fighter with this one in the kit menus. Then in weaprof.2da, restrict the real trueclass fighter to 2 points in any weapon. Now, if anyone dual-classes and chooses a kit in their 2nd class, their 1st class will revert to trueclass (make sure to use AddKit, not SuperAddKit) and they will be restricted to 2 stars in any weapon, just like the (real, behind-the-scenes) trueclass fighter.

    Wouldn't replacing the true-fighter with a kit possibly mess up a lot of in regular campaign and in-game codding? Is there anything else I'd need to take care of to do that?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467
    edited May 2018
    Reddbane said:

    Wouldn't replacing the true-fighter with a kit possibly mess up a lot of in regular campaign and in-game codding? Is there anything else I'd need to take care of to do that?

    Dunno, you'd have to fully think it through. It wouldn't mess up multiclassing since fighter multis are already limited to specialization. And it wouldn't mess up traditional dual-classing since they would keep the limits of your clone kit. It would have a conflict with the mod that lets you dual into a kit, but that's probably already incompatible with your mod. It would be an incompatibility with my fears mod, but that too is already a mod adding 3E stuff that is already incompatible with yours.

    You'd have to look for any script checks or 177 effects checking for kit = trueclass, but there probably aren't many of them, and they would be easy enough to fix.

    Something to consider at least, as this will achieve the goal of limiting duals' proficiencies.

    EDIT - FWIW my 3E-style bard mod replaces the trueclass bard with a clone kit in this way, and I haven't heard of any issues arising from it.

  • ReddbaneReddbane Member Posts: 222
    @subtledoctor
    Did your Enforce PnP Proficiency Rules on Dual-Classed Characters cause any problems while coding to replace the True-Fighter with a kit? Ie did you have to code anything else?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467
    Reddbane said:

    @subtledoctor
    Did your Enforce PnP Proficiency Rules on Dual-Classed Characters cause any problems while coding to replace the True-Fighter with a kit? Ie did you have to code anything else?

    Yes, but that mod works differently.
    - Enforce PnP Dualling creates a clone kit with reduced prof limits, and triggers a script to shunt players into that kit upon dual-classing.
    - This is the obverse: it would create a clone kit and reduce the trueclass limits, and shunt you out of the clone kit upon taking another kit.

    So they have different consequences and side-effects.

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