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[Request] Party Leader Speaks for Party

HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
Hi everyone,

One very annoying occurence in BG is that every now and again a scripted NPC will trigger dialogue with your party, unfortunately with the closest party member, which can be your warrior with 6 Charisma.

My request is that the party leader be the party leader, and speak for the party whenever they get approached. If I was a paladin leader, I would not allow an unbearable idiot party member to speak for the group. I would step to the front and take charge.

Therefore my request is that whenever dialogue is triggered by NPCs with the group, the party leader should always do the talking, unless it is intended specifically for a party member (in which case they normally speak for themselves anyway), or if you voluntarily trigger dialogue with a character other than the leader.

This is aimed at avoiding contrivances like having the party leader staggered ahead.

CLARIFICATION: The party leader is taken to mean the character in 1st slot, even if the formation then has them at the back (this also helps a lot where your leader is weak, e.g. a wizard or a sorceror, you don't have to put them in harms way just to ensure they do the talking). This does not necessarily mean CHARNAME.
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Comments

  • AN_ALPACA_WADAFUKAN_ALPACA_WADAFUK Member Posts: 29
    If the scripted NPC talks to the nearest party member, that means he has no interest in going specifically to the leader.

    That's a bad idea, and it's what made PST a drag to play, TNO had to run around everywhere
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    The idea is that if the party leader is nearby, the dialogue should be 'comandeered' by them. One thing I forgot to include from the earlier discussions is that if the party leader is not sufficiently proximate (I know, can of worms) then dialogue should follow the ordinary rule, that the closest party member does the talking.

    The problem this is seeking to address is where a dumb fighter character in position two, finds himself marginally closer to the dialogue initiator and so the whole dialogue needs to be conducted with them. It leads to the ridiculous scenario where the intelligent, charismatic leader, standing 1 foot away just stands and watches while the party members bumbles their way through the dialogue.
    SenashTJ_Hooker
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    As a further note, this is not a request that NPCs who trigger automatic dialogue (around whom this problem is focussed) move around and seek out the party leader.
  • KerozevokKerozevok Member Posts: 695
    I don't see the interest, only a small number of questgivers do a charisma test.
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    You are right, but this isn't just about questgivers. In fact most questgivers you initiate dialogue voluntarily. In the other cases I think it's just the principle that the party leader is there to lead the party, and it's frustrating when they don't because of an automatic process.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I'm not entirely sure about this (its been a while since I've played) but I think that the current way the game deals with these dialogues also leads to stupid situations where the NPC's talk to any character like they're the Bhaalspawn.

    At least in these cases the game should really always have the actual Bhaalspawn doing the talking.
    SenashMehkelsepotter
  • EpitomyofShynessEpitomyofShyness Member Posts: 113
    I definitely want this. Can't tell you how many times I've had to reload because my someone spoke to someone other that my Bhaalspawn on one of those rare instances where charisma or intelligence or what have you mattered.
    HeroicSpurAlejandroMehkel
  • trinittrinit Member Posts: 705
    i would like to vote for this too and i second the Epitomyo's post.
  • KoreKore Member Posts: 245
    This is a cool idea, and if there were more stat checks in dialogue then it would be even better (maybe there are in the new advenure...), but it doesn't seem like a massive deal otherwise.
    I don't see the interest, only a small number of questgivers do a charisma test.
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    edited June 2012
    The other thing worth noting, is that while only a few dialogues are influenced by stats, the average player does not know which dialogues those are. I personally find myself wondering after many dialogues, could I have got a better reaction there if I had spoken with my leader?

    *Or if I had been able to...
    TJ_Hooker
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Posts: 201
    The other thing worth noting, is that while only a few dialogues are influenced by stats, the average player does not know which dialogues those are. I personally find myself wondering after many dialogues, could I have got a better reaction there if I had spoken with my leader?

    *Or if I had been able to...
    Right there you got me.

    I also think this is an overall good suggestion. I really like how you want the party leader to be the one talking only if he is close to where the conversation is triggered.
    I definitely want this. Can't tell you how many times I've had to reload because my someone spoke to someone other that my Bhaalspawn on one of those rare instances where charisma or intelligence or what have you mattered.
    Yes, yes and yes. I hated when someone spoke to another NPC`s as the Bhaalspawn.

    HeroicSpur
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 307
    According to the official documentation, even if an NPC talks to some other member, the charisma of the party leader is used. Doesn't it work properly?
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    @Lunever: I didn't know about that. Which official documentation is this?
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    edited June 2012
    False information, somehow misled by IESDP listing Protagonist (not used in any BG2+ToB dlg or bcs file) as an identifier so I thought Player1 stood for party slot # 1
    Post edited by lansounet on
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 307
    @HeroicSpur: BG1 manual page 20 (=page 12 in the PDF on CD): "Regardless of who is having the
    dialogue, reaction adjustments will be based on the ‘leader’ of the
    group. The ‘leader’ is always the top-most character portrait of all
    the characters that are present in the area."
    @Iansounet: So someone would need to check all dialogues in the entire game.
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    edited June 2012
    Bah why did you answer already, I've done a bit of searching, and it seems I was wrong about Player1 identifier, so only LastTalkedToBy script checks matter if the dialogue is initiated by a member that is not the PC, or if somehow an outsider NPC initiated dialogue with closest party member which happened to be Korgan or something. only the latter is relevant here I guess, gonna check if I can find such an occurence.

    Meanwhile I will cover my poop from previous post by massive editing before someone else with the sufficient knowledge goes mad about false info!

    PS : This is all about BG2 behaviour btw, so I can't tell about the info from BG1 manual
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    edited June 2012
    Stopped at T named dialog files but I could only find 1 occurence of a NPC starting dialog with any/nearest party member and the stat check (for rep and/or CHR) only changes his opening line but the rest remains the same, lol. NPC is Marlowe in ToB Amkethran, he gives the quest about the lich. Pretty much all stat checks - when there is one - are done on CHARNAME bar a few ones if you talk to random people with other characters. Almost only STR checks in BG1 btw.
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    *lights @ScottBrooks beacon*

    Seeking some confirmation/precisions in regards to some identifiers for further research in the topic of this thread :

    - PC in EA.IDS (IESDP link) Does that really mean any party member? So StartDialogue([PC]) (and other variants) starts a dialogue with nearest party member?

    - StrongestOf / WeakestOf in OBJECT.IDS (IESDP link) What determines those? Levels/Experience points/some stat?
  • FlauschigFlauschig Member Posts: 84
    edited August 2012
    Thanks for clarification,

    p.s. Stalker :P
    Post edited by Flauschig on
  • technophobetechnophobe Member Posts: 68
    [PC] is, indeed, any party member. Player1 always refers to CHARNAME regardless of which party slot he's actually in, iirc.
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    edited July 2012
    Yeh the Player1-6 are in the order that is shown on save screen, in order of joining the party and CHARNAME is always the 1st one! If you're right on [PC] then I know right out of my head of one dialogue that does a CheckStat on LastTalkedToBy after starting dialogue with [PC] : BANDIC.DLG / BANDIC.BCS. The trigger is still quite low and [PC] is probably a fighter hitting him~

    Will check for more within BG1
    Flauschig
  • technophobetechnophobe Member Posts: 68
    It's been a while since I looked, but [PC] might include any green-circled creature, which would include controlled summons.
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    Isn't that GOODCUTOFF ?
  • technophobetechnophobe Member Posts: 68
    Yeah, that was it.
  • looterlooter Member Posts: 12
    edited July 2012
    I think the host should be able to select who will recieve the conversation, I've had some conversations with my main character that I wish I was having with others due to special story branches or outcomes (being able to become the lord of De'Arnise keep as a fighter comes to mind).
    Post edited by looter on
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    @Looter: what's the kensai underhold castle area?
  • looterlooter Member Posts: 12
    @Looter: what's the kensai underhold castle area?
    Yea sorry that was a really bad description, I was trying to remember the name of it when I had posted. What I was referring to was http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/Walkthrough2/SoA/chapter-2/quests/stronghold-fighter.php , to qoute

    "If you are a Fighter, Barbarian, or Monk, when you have completed the The De'Arnise Keep has been Invaded quest, Nalia offers you the keep as your stronghold. If you accept, you are automatically transported into Level 1 of the Keep where you meet with the Major Domo who will give you your tasks. "

    my character didn't qualify as a fighter, barbarian or monk but a Kensai did ( i think because when he dual-classed he reads as fighter/mage ), and since it was an MP game I kept getting the dialog as soon as we entered the roof to end the questline.
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    I agree that the party leader should do the talking unless otherwise specified to the game. You could elect somebody to 'speak for the party', the default being CHARNAME.
    looter
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    edited July 2012
    @looter I've never played multiplayer but I guess top left character (when you create all the chars) is set as Player1 and is the Bhaalspawn? Strongholds are only offered to the Bhaalspawn. But I don't understand that dialog thing you're describing.

    @Ward There are 2 ways I can see this being accomplished :

    - Change all iterations of StartDialogue([PC]) (and all variants of Dialogue action of course) to (Player1) in scripts that initiate dialogues (at least for dialogs that contain CheckStat(), could be extended to dialogues containing tokens referring to the speaker like < GABBER >, < RACE >, etc...)

    - Change all CheckStat(LastTalkedToBy, , ) in dialogues to CheckStat(Player1, , ) if the dialogue is initiated by script (Exclude Wish dialogue and some other specific ones). LastTalkedToBy is fine if the dialogue is initiated by the player with a party member that is not CHARNAME

    looter
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    @Iansounet

    I always wondered exactly why the speaking NPC is assumed to be CHARNAME (the leader). Is this some kind of limitation or oversight into how to pass over dialogue control to CHARNAME or for convenience sake?
    looter
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