How do Rangers get Two Weapon Style?

EnchanterTim

hello everyone, i am currently trying to give swashbucklers and blades an innate bonus to two weapon fighting just like rangers, but i can't figure out where rangers get it from in the first place. i have looked at the CLAB files as well as the 2da files that govern proficiency gain and found nothing so far. if somebody knows a solution please share it.

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EnchanterTim

thank you very much

_Luke_

subtledoctor said:

It's utterly, completely hard-coded for rangers. It actually gets applied before any effects in their clab table... this way, in SoA you can use one of your proficiencies to grab a 3rd point in dual-wielding.

To give it to other kits, create a spell using opcode 233 to set dual-wieliding style to 2 points (target = self, timing = 9). Then apply that spell in the kit's clab table.

Fun fact: you cannot remove those 2 pips via opcode #233 (parameter1 = %-2%) from a ranger kit.....
I thought it was possible since parameter1 can take negative values.......

EDIT: Sorry, I was wrong, I didn't set param2 to Increment.... Do you know how can I do this?

EDIT2: OK, I managed to set param2 correctly, i.e.:

parameter2 = 114 + (1 << 16)
What about param1 ?

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_Luke_

subtledoctor said:

I think you can do it in Weidu with ADD_SPELL_EFFECT with

parameter1 = (0 - 2)

Yeah, sorry, my solution is also correct, i.e., parameter1 = %-2%. I asked you because Nearinfinity displays something weird (look at the attached screenshot...) ---> I guess NI isn't probably updated.....

subtledoctor said:

Note, this doesn't really help you for rangers, since the order of events in Character Generation would be:

1. 2 hard-coded pips get applied
   
2. you choose profs
   
3. the spell removes TWF pips
   

There's no way to remove them before you get to the proficiency screen.

Nope, you're wrong, it works (just tested ) The 2 hard-coded pips get applied after you choose your initial profs... But since my SPL removes them, they don't get displayed during Char Gen....

kjeron

Luke93 said:

Yeah, sorry, my solution is also correct, i.e., parameter1 = %-2%. I asked you because Nearinfinity displays something weird (look at the attached screenshot...) ---> I guess NI isn't probably updated.....

By default, it displays parameter1 split for active and original class proficiency values, it just doesn't display negative numbers well.
If you right-click on the field, and select "Edit as Number", it will display "-2".

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_Luke_

@kjeron Thanks for clarifying. Guess the same holds for opcode #1, right? If you write parameter1 = %-1%NI displays "Error (-1)".....

@subtledoctor
Yeah, sorry, I should've mentioned that my revised Archer kit cannot spend proficiency points in Two-weapon fighting, so in this case those 2 pips aren't there when I go to spend the initial 4 proficiencies.....

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_Luke_

subtledoctor said:

Ah! But just so we are clear, that's only because the 2.0+ engine hides proficiency categories that are unavailable per WEAPPROF.2da... a really annoying change that causes its own problems. But while hidden, those pips are in fact still there at that point; if a player uses that "see hidden options" mod they would see the pips.

I see, good to know....

In any case, the important thing is that it's possible to remove those 2 pips (if desired......)

Jidokwon

What came first? Was two weapon style always a thing for D&D rangers or was it exclusive to the Infinity games? I'm thinking they had a significant edge to dual wielding in Neverwinter Nights, too. So have D&D rangers always had this advantage or was it a Bioware thing?

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DreadKhan

There was a totally not absurd 'dual wielding' mimicry thing in IWD 1 Vanilla... loved to have a level 1 ranger with a two-handed slashing weapon! 2.5 apr at level 1? Ha!

Raduziel

Dual-Wielding was a thing in the core rules and Rangers always received it for free.

From Player's Handbook Chapter 3:

Although he has the basic skills of a warrior, the ranger also has several advantages. When wearing studded leather or lighter armor, a ranger can fight two-handed with no penalty to his attack rolls (see "Attacking with Two Weapons" in Chapter 9: Combat). Obviously, the ranger cannot use a shield when fighting this way. A ranger can still fight with two weapons while wearing heavier armor than studded leather, but he suffers the standard attack roll penalties.

From Player's Handbook Chapter 9:

Attacking with Two Weapons

A tricky fighting style available only to warriors and rogues is that of fighting with two weapons simultaneously. The character chooses not to use a shield in favor of another weapon, granting him a greater number of attacks, with a penalty to his attack rolls (rangers are exempt from the attack roll penalty).

When using a second weapon in his off-hand, a character is limited in his weapon choice. His principal weapon can be whatever he chooses, provided it can be wielded with one hand. The second weapon must be smaller in size and weight than the character's main weapon (though a dagger can always be used as a second weapon, even if the primary weapon is also a dagger). A fighter can use a long sword and a short sword, or a long sword and a dagger, but he cannot use two long swords. Nor can the character use a shield, unless it is kept strapped onto his back.

When attacking, all characters but rangers suffer penalties to their attack rolls. Attacks made with the main weapon suffer a -2 penalty, and attacks made with the second weapon suffer a -4 penalty. The character's Reaction Adjustment (based on his Dexterity, see Table 2) modifies this penalty. A low Dexterity score will worsen the character's chance to hit with each attack. A high Dexterity can negate this particular penalty, although it cannot result in a positive modifier on the attack rolls for either weapon (i.e., the Reaction Adjustment can, at best, raise the attack roll penalties to 0).

The use of two weapons enables the character to make one additional attack each combat round, with the second weapon. The character gains only one additional attack each round, regardless of the number of attacks he may normally be allowed. Thus, a warrior able to attack 3/2 (once in the first round and twice in the second) can attack 5/2 (twice in the first round and three times in the second).

What was introduced later (with the Complete Fighter's Handbook) was the Two-Weapon Style, that allowed the use of two weapons of the same size, reduced the penalties (basically allowing other people to do what the ranger does) and opened the style for priests.

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Raduziel

subtledoctor wrote: »

Ah, but which Player's Handbook is that from... 2E had, what, three different PHBs?

Maybe the latest or the second one. Definitely not the first.

But if it is in the PHB, then it is a core rule.

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Raduziel

subtledoctor wrote: »

Raduziel wrote: »

Definitely not the first.

Only one I ever owned...

I'll give you a hug if you need one.