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Darkness over Daggerford: What's going on here?

11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
in NWN:EE Modules
I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I have a bone to pick with Ossian studios.

I'm going to start this off by saying I enjoy everything Beamdog has to offer, and I'm all for supporting studios like Ossian. I think they did excellent work on completing Darkness over Daggerford... when it was a free expansion to download.

The biggest problem I'm seeing here is that I'm failing to see what here warrants a price tag of $10. People, perhaps, may argue that a $10 price tag isn't expensive. That's true, but what here am I getting for the price?

I don't know if this is a miscommunication issue or something, but reading from the Steam website: "12 new music tracks. New character portraits (12, to be exact). Some voice-over work, and over 500 bug fixes/gameplay improvements."

What do you classify as a "gameplay" improvement?

Again, I'm all for supporting studios. However, let me put this into a better perspective. NWN:EE is a game that was built so that the install of a free module could inherently be updated with ALL the new graphical features/fixes flawless integrated. Simply put, you can install a mod and still receive the benefits.

Why does it seem like I'm paying $10 for a glorified patch to the game? The kicker is, I'm an avid supporter of everything Beamdog does. So I'm going to end up buying this anyway.

However, what's to stop me from just downloading the free version? What are these "gameplay" improvements? Clarify a bit more, whoever is in control of that!

I can use the free version, and still receive the graphical updates, and still have a nice, working experience with the game. Voice acting, I can live without. The soundtrack is an okay addition, but why not just bundle that as a soundtrack/mod that essentially just attaches to the free Darkness over Daggerford, applying new songs to the game? You could price it at $5, and you might even make more money that way.

My biggest question, what's going on here? I DON'T want to see a $10 price point for the Aielund saga, or any other big modules. I DON'T want to see a $10 price point for the Prophet series of modules! I want the modders to update their content for the EE edition of NWN, and I don't want to feel I'm given a cheap experience of having to pay for a patch so that the content would be updated for EE.

Price the portraits as $5. Price the soundtrack + a mod that allows you to add it into the game as $5. Give me the gameplay improvements for free. That model sounds more appropriate to me.
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Comments

  • LottiLotti Member Posts: 66
    DoD was originally meant to be paid content.

    > I DON'T want to see ....

    I want a pony.
  • DerpCityDerpCity Member, Moderator Posts: 303
    edited June 2018
    The 500+ gameplay updates are updates to the EE version of the Darkness over Daggerford itself (ie, bug fixes), not Enhanced Edition as a whole. There was a big readme posted somewhere that listed the updates, but I don't know where to find it.
  • donardonar Member Posts: 8
    edited June 2018
    Its just a great module to play. After finishing it, I feel I've been thru big campaign. If u look into the changelog (full of spoilers), you'll see, that they've upgraded/fixed so much, that you have big degree of freedom of what to do in the game. I think it wouldn't be so good experience playing the old version. Everythings very smooth and compact in this one, although I havent tryied the free one.
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
    JFK said:

    There's nothing stopping you from just using the free version. Go for it. Nothing has changed to force you to buy this.
    If you buy it, you are getting fixes to the module, not graphical fixes inherent in EE. Broken plot advancement, bug fixes, scripting fixes, dialogue fixes, that sort of thing. Additionally, they've added the stuff you mentioned.

    Sure, you could create voice over yourself and attach it to the module. In fact, you could do everything Ossian did to the module! All of it.


    But, you could have done that for the last ten years I guess. Hmm. Seems nobody did . . .


    Well, the creators of the formerly Premium Module did, anyway. And now they are selling the once again Premium Module. It's an optional purchase.


    For me, adding and fixing all that stuff, while totally possible for someone to do . . . well, it's worth just paying the $10.


    Try adding some things, fixing some things . . . small things . . . to your favorite free module. See how much work it is. Then you'll have a better perspective on the value of the Premium Module Darkness over Daggerford.


    Just my two copper thumbs.


    -JFK

    Thanks, but I'll just stick to the free content. I think there was a better way to price the content, and I never said it had to be all free. The patch should be free because patches and fixes are free, and you saying it's worth $10 doesn't change that.
  • LottiLotti Member Posts: 66
    > The patch should be free because patches and fixes are free

    You demand free patches and fixes for something you never paid for?

    That is pretty entitled.
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
    Lotti said:

    > The patch should be free because patches and fixes are free

    You demand free patches and fixes for something you never paid for?

    That is pretty entitled.

    We'll see how those sales turn out and see if I'm actually "entitled." It's funny. I remember a time when people got paid for beta testing, when people didn't have to pay for patches, and when games contained all their content and it wasn't stripped away as on-disc dlc.

    No one's ever willing to point the crap out, and that's why the gaming industry is becoming more and more corporate.

    Where's your concrete evidence I'm acting entitled? Look at my profile and how I've supported Beamdog. I'm not allowed to apply some criticism? Sorry, but I'm not a gamer who is a mindless drone. I didn't buy Battlefront II; I thought Call of Duty Black Ops 4 was a cop-out when they removed the single-player campaign; microtransactions are one of the worst things to happen to the gaming industry in the last, entire decade.

    You're willing to pay for a patch? That's fine. Do what you want to do, but don't act like I'm entitled because I should appreciate that it's part of the selling-point to Darkness over Daggerford.

    They re-released the mod with some fixes, a new soundtrack, and some voice-over. The latter two of which could have been priced separately. Ossian studios could have released the patch for free, and I bet you MORE people would be open to actually supporting them - WANTING to support them. When did this stop being a business tactic? Why does everything have to be priced nowadays?

    I don't know in what way Beamdog is affiliated with Ossian studios, but they can do better.
  • JFKJFK Member Posts: 214
    1130210 said:


    Thanks, but I'll just stick to the free content. I think there was a better way to price the content, and I never said it had to be all free. The patch should be free because patches and fixes are free, and you saying it's worth $10 doesn't change that.

    Nope. I didn't say it was worth $10. I said it was worth $10 to me. If it isn't to you, then don't buy it. Pretty simple, I think.

    I'm not down on you or anyone who decides not to buy it, and prefers to keep playing the free version. That's why Ossian left the free version there, I guess.

    I don't see it as anything to be upset about, though. It's a business decision that takes exactly nothing away from you, since you've decided not to buy the Premium Module.

    -JFK

  • TheSupremeForceTheSupremeForce Member Posts: 4
    Feeling entitled to free patches is the definition of acting entitled. Ossian didn't "owe" anyone a "free" update. They didn't have to do anything. Just don't buy it. Crisis averted.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    dod is a special case. as others have said it was always meant to be a premium module. they are not going to start selling other peoples mods.
  • Night76Night76 Member Posts: 45
    10$ for a great module is nothing. Ossian don't have any money for the module in 2006 and the people that realize the module must live. They create a professional module not a "amatorial" one like other modder. They release the module free anyway and you blame Ossian and Beamdog for this operation ?

    No way ... and i'm sad to hear that no other premium module be made for Neverwinter Nights:EE.

    Best regards
  • DwayneDwayne Member Posts: 102
    I hope Beamdog makes more modules for sale. I think it will help with the development of nwnee. I just bought Darkness Over Daggerford yesterday just to help support Beamdog. I don't plan on playing it anytime soon since I have many things to play at the moment. Looks good though.
  • ratty_uk2011ratty_uk2011 Member Posts: 2
    FFS OP have you ever left your house and seen how the commercial world works? $10 is the price of a burger meal, judge that against the time it's taken for Ossian to dust this off, fix the bugs and release it to be compliant with NWN EE. It's OK if you don't see your own personal value in that; there's a pile of stones over there you can play GO with.
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
    I ended up buying the game. I don't know why people are acting so immature about me just having an opinion... :p
  • XorinaXorina Member Posts: 138
    edited August 2019
    Is there a bug report thread for DoDEE? I found a MAJOR gamebreaking one that makes progress in the game grind to a halt: The no 'blue portal' back to Daggerford village from the docks door bug, as it were.

    I smash doors on enterable areas to save time later opening them. Ther problem? Doing his on the dock outside doors and oops, there is no blue portal thing that indicates a transition point.
    Post edited by Xorina on
  • PhantasmaPhantasma Member Posts: 79
    You can raise bugs on beamdog support as for any nwn bug - but consider this one raised and reported, and i will investigate later! Thanks for raising the issue - you must have really hit the door hard to take out the area transition :-)
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    @Xorina support.baldursgate.com
  • rogueknight333rogueknight333 Member Posts: 12
    Come to think of it, I recall a player going through my modules with the EE reporting the same bug: destroying doors also destroyed the associated transition, which is not something I recall ever happening in pre-EE NWN. It does seem this is a general EE bug rather than something specific to DoD.
  • XorinaXorina Member Posts: 138
    rogueknight333 said:

    Come to think of it, I recall a player going through my modules with the EE reporting the same bug: destroying doors also destroyed the associated transition, which is not something I recall ever happening in pre-EE NWN. It does seem this is a general EE bug rather than something specific to DoD.

    Ah really? Interesting. I thought the transition was "behind" the doors. With the door itself merely being the cork, or cover, so to speak. Normally in-play, I leave doors open, but the sailors always shut the dock doors.
  • XorinaXorina Member Posts: 138
    edited July 2018
    SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT


    Am unsure if this is a bug, but when I enter the werewolf farmer's house and have to escape the labyrinth, my two minders, the halfling rogue from the prelude and overture and the taciturn ice maiden fighter from the Inn disappear.

    I thought they'd reappear outside but no. At least I now earn more XP (but not huge amounts given Xorina is Champion of Torm Epic Level). It's slightly disappointing as I upgraded much of their stuff with top of the line equipment which was dear.
  • PhantasmaPhantasma Member Posts: 79
    Did you go rescue them? They should be in a cell near to the cell where you were initially imprisoned in the labyrinth, open-able with a nearby lever. Hope that helps!
  • rashkaerashkae Member Posts: 179
    I for one, would gladly pay $10 each for a finished/polished Luke Skull series, or HeX coda (if anyone can get Stephan back into NWN modding ;)
  • dudalbdudalb Member Posts: 7
    Dwayne said:

    I hope Beamdog makes more modules for sale. I think it will help with the development of nwnee. I just bought Darkness Over Daggerford yesterday just to help support Beamdog. I don't plan on playing it anytime soon since I have many things to play at the moment. Looks good though.

    I think the reception that their in house module for Baldar's Gate II got has sort of cured Beamdog of the desire to create original material. Hint:It was not well received.
    But DoD, as Beamdog has said, is a special case.
  • rogueknight333rogueknight333 Member Posts: 12
    Xorina said:

    ...I smash doors on enterable areas to save time later opening them. Ther problem? Doing his ion the dock outside doors and oops, there is no blue portal thing that indicates a transition point.

    rogueknight333 said:

    Come to think of it, I recall a player going through my modules with the EE reporting the same bug: destroying doors also destroyed the associated transition, which is not something I recall ever happening in pre-EE NWN. It does seem this is a general EE bug rather than something specific to DoD.

    Are there any plans to fix this bug? I just recently received another bug report for my modules apparently caused by the same problem: destroying a door also destroyed the associated area transition. The assumption in pre-EE NWN was that locked doors could normally be bashed down by those lacking lock-picking skills, but that no longer works. I doubt my modules and DoD are the only ones where this could cause issues.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    Tagging @Phantasma
  • PhantasmaPhantasma Member Posts: 79
    The plot-critical door in DoD that had an associated area transition was made 'plot' to avoid the issue in the updated DoD version. But I think rogueknight333 was targeting the general issue more at Beamdog to see if anything could be done. That said, in DoD the issue was more around a script being placed on this particular door, which obviously wasn't going to be executed if that door got destroyed. It might be worth you filing a bug with Beamdog, @rogueknight333
  • rogueknight333rogueknight333 Member Posts: 12
    Bug Report has been filed. I thought that had already been done from the earlier statements, and in any case I had not experienced this myself, only had it reported to me. I had a little difficulty reproducing the issue in test modules until I figured out that it (apparently) happens only with doors that use a custom script in the "OnAreaTransitionClick" slot rather than those using a standard transition.

    In the case where it was causing problems in my module, setting the door to plot would not work, since players are supposed to be able to bash down the door as an alternative to picking the lock, for those lacking that skill. In any case tracking down all the doors where it would potentially be an issue would be impractical, to put it mildly.
This discussion has been closed.

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