Enchanter in ToB

MonoCanalla

I am questioning the effectiveness of a high level enchanter against high level encounters.

I’m thinking that spells like Domination and Hold Monster are great when you add the -2 saving throws provoked by being an specialist caster. But really those spells will be of any use in ToB or even earlier than that?

Raduziel

I did an Enchanter run all the way from Candlekeep to ToB and bad news: you gonna have a bad time.

Lots of micromanagement debuffing the enemies to make sure your spells will land. I gave up on the character eventually as Every. Damn. Encounter. required a Greater Malison and I'm not a big fan of rest-spamming.

lunar

You still have the best blaster type spells, skull trap, horrid wilting, and dragon breath in ToB, so it is not all bad. Still doable. A transmuter (lack of breach and meaningful spell protections) or abjurer (lack of stoneskin!!!) suffer too much they are NOT fun to use IMHO.

Enchantment spells do lose effectiveness due to enemy saving throws or immunities, though. Especially bad when considering there is no 6th or greater level enchantment spell.

A support caster like Jan or Haer Dalis can throw greater malisons.

Spell revisions mod somewhat strengthen enchantment school by making power words into enchantment. However since they offer no save (except revised pw:sleep, IIRC) enchanter specialisation is pointless.

ThacoBell

You aren't really crippled in terms of spellpower. It mostly means you are casting non-enchantment spells though.

Raduziel

It means that the fact that you're an Enchanter is pretty much useless.

And you gave up on Contingency, Chain Contingency, Minor Spell Sequencer, Spell Sequencer, Spell Trigger, Melf's Minute Meteor, Mordenkainen's Sword, Black Blade of Disaster, Bigby's Clenched Fist, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Web, and Magic Missile for this.

You can use my Universal Wizard Spells mod to soften it a little, but it is a harsh trade-off anyway IMHO.

Of course, as an Enchanter you'll dominate BGEE, SoD and a large part of BG2EE - but you would probably do that as a generalist too (and you can always pick Xan for BGEE).

WarChiefZeke

The Enchantment school is deadly, but all the spells you really need weren't included, such as the higher level ones that work on almost all beings and are de facto death sentances, or ones capable of making an enemies saving throws entirely dissapear.

Restricting enchantment spells to just 5th level was a mistake and I may correct it one day, as accurately to PnP as I can.

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Quartz

Raduziel said:

Of course, as an Enchanter you'll dominate BGEE, SoD and a large part of BG2EE - but you would probably do that as a generalist too (and you can always pick Xan for BGEE).

Honestly, I find Xan to be the most powerful mage in BG1. I know everyone wants to say Edwin, and I get that, but I find most of my raw damage comes from my warriors, not arcane magic.

Until, of course, you get to the point where you can throw party-friendly AoE damage in the form of Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting and Dragon's Breath... and everything ever saves vs. spells. But I'm talking BG1 specifically.

Raduziel

Xan is by far the best wizard on BGEE as Enchantment is by far the strongest school on that game.

Edwin is a well written character with a overpower amulet, but that's it.

Even Quayle is a better wizard than Edwin due to Blindness/Spook and being able to cast Doom.

SharGuidesMyHand

Slightly off topic, but IMO, Edwin suffers a HUGE drawback from not being able to identify items in the field.

sarevok57

SharGuidesMyHand said:

Slightly off topic, but IMO, Edwin suffers a HUGE drawback from not being able to identify items in the field.

goggles of identification fix this, but this item is only available in bg2

Grond0

sarevok57 said:

SharGuidesMyHand said:

Slightly off topic, but IMO, Edwin suffers a HUGE drawback from not being able to identify items in the field.

goggles of identification fix this, but this item is only available in bg2

There's also a mirror of identification in SoD.

It's a long time since I've used NPCs myself, but I always found Edwin to be the most useful caster - even if that was largely because of his amulet. I found the extra spells he had available gave him an edge over Xan, even if some of those spells were slightly less likely to be effective. He also had the benefit of considerably more HPs than Xan, so there wasn't the same need to micro-manage him to avoid trips to the temple.

Raduziel

Grond0 said:

sarevok57 said:

SharGuidesMyHand said:

Slightly off topic, but IMO, Edwin suffers a HUGE drawback from not being able to identify items in the field.

goggles of identification fix this, but this item is only available in bg2

There's also a mirror of identification in SoD.

It's a long time since I've used NPCs myself, but I always found Edwin to be the most useful caster - even if that was largely because of his amulet. I found the extra spells he had available gave him an edge over Xan, even if some of those spells were slightly less likely to be effective. He also had the benefit of considerably more HPs than Xan, so there wasn't the same need to micro-manage him to avoid trips to the temple.