Can a Monk disable traps or only find them?

Oxford_Guy

I've never played a monk, but may take Rasaad for one of my BGEE run-throughs, I was wondering, does the Monk "find traps" ability let then disable traps or just find them? If only the latter, that's not particularly useful, unless I'm missing something?

LordsDarkKnight185

Nope, just finding them. Not particularly useful at all. I have no idea what they were thinking.

Mungri

'Monks share the Hide in Shadows, Move Silently and Find Traps skills of thieves. (Unlike thieves, however, they cannot remove traps; they can only detect them.) Monks only gain 10 points per level to dedicate to these skills.'

http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Classes_and_Kits#Monk

MedullaOblongata

Technically, anyone can disable traps.

By running into them. :P

Ignatius

MedullaOblongata said:

Technically, anyone can disable traps.

By running into them. :P

Except summons, quite unfortunately...

MedullaOblongata

Ah... I see they caught on to my mine-detector scheme ._.

Shin

Hopefully aspects like this will be moddable if/when the UI components get externalized.

CaptRory

"Nodwick disarmed the trap!"
"Admittedly the same way a stick disarms a bear trap."

Dee

It's probably a hold-over from 3e, where if you found a trap you could bypass it.

Unfortunately, the monk has no ability to pass over traps without activating them (feature request?), so the monk's ability is useless.

Jalily

Aosaw said:

It's probably a hold-over from 3e, where if you found a trap you could bypass it.

Unfortunately, the monk has no ability to pass over traps without activating them (feature request?), so the monk's ability is useless.

If you don't make the request, I will!

Dee

Done!
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/7147/monk-ability-i-found-a-trap-um-somebody-throw-a-rock

BW022

It has some advantages.
1. You can set it off at a time of your choosing (i.e. not in combat).
2. You can bring a thief up to disarm it. (i.e. monk can scout, while thief can put points into just disarm)
3. You can move other party members back before setting it off.
4. You can select which party member to set if off.
5. You have the option of healing, buffing, or casting protection spells before setting it off.
6. You use ranged weapons against an enemy and pull back.

Oxford_Guy

BW022 said:

It has some advantages.
1. You can set it off at a time of your choosing (i.e. not in combat).

True

BW022 said:

I
2. You can bring a thief up to disarm it. (i.e. monk can scout, while thief can put points into just disarm)

That point doesn't make sense, as there is no separate "disarm traps" skill for thieves, its the same as "find traps", so the thief wouldn't save any skill points here. Why scout with the monk if the thief can do this better, unless the monk's "find traps" skill is somehow better than the thief's?

BTW I'm not suggesting Monks *should* have "disarm traps" (otherwise defeats half of the reason for having thieves), just that it's not *that* useful on its own. I quite like the "evade traps" idea for just the Monk character, though (soloists will like this one, in particular...)

BW022 said:

3. You can move other party members back before setting it off.
4. You can select which party member to set if off.
5. You have the option of healing, buffing, or casting protection spells before setting it off.
6. You use ranged weapons against an enemy and pull back.

Okay, so there are *some* reasons to like find traps w/o disarm (thanks for the ideas), though I think I'd rather use a thief to deal with traps

Shin

Oxford_Guy said:

Why scout with the monk if the thief can do this better, unless the monk's "find traps" skill is somehow better than the thief's?

You could for instance have the monk searching for traps and the thief stealthed and ready for backstabbing. But I agree that it's pointless for most situations.

bigdogchris

Is there even a 2nd or 3rd Edition rule that allows a class to bypass traps?

Ignatius

Also what do 2nd and 3rd Ed. rules say about summons and traps? are they considered as illusions and therefore unable to spring traps? are there any summons that are an exception to this?

ajwz

bigdogchris said:

Is there even a 2nd or 3rd Edition rule that allows a class to bypass traps?

I guess the monk's detect traps ability in 2nd ed is the precursor to evasion in 3ed.

AHF

Ignatius said:

Also what do 2nd and 3rd Ed. rules say about summons and traps? are they considered as illusions and therefore unable to spring traps? are there any summons that are an exception to this?

That is a video game mechanic. In 2nd edition, a summoned ogre walking across a pit trap collapses the trap just like a player character.

On the thread subject, I view the monk as being a bit like a warrior priest. Priests have the find trap spell which only detects. So it isn't totally outrageous that the monk has something similar (although I find the stealth ability much more useful for monks). That isn't any kind of official dogma -- just how I view the ability.

Ignatius

AHF said:

That is a video game mechanic. In 2nd edition, a summoned ogre walking across a pit trap collapses the trap just like a player character.

Ah, thanks. Do you know what makes it difficult for the game mechanics to behave like that? have any mods altered it? is it a "request" which has been formulated by the BG Community?

AHF

Ignatius said:

AHF said:

That is a video game mechanic. In 2nd edition, a summoned ogre walking across a pit trap collapses the trap just like a player character.

Ah, thanks. Do you know what makes it difficult for the game mechanics to behave like that? have any mods altered it? is it a "request" which has been formulated by the BG Community?

My guess is that the developers (a) wanted the PC to have to do something other than running summoned skeletons across traps to disarm them (although a few do go off) and (b) didn't want enemies setting off their own traps.

Lemernis

Btw, clerics also have a spell to Find Traps, and they too are unable to remove them.

Ignatius

AHF said:

My guess is that the developers (a) wanted the PC to have to do something other than running summoned skeletons across traps to disarm them (although a few do go off) and (b) didn't want enemies setting off their own traps.

in terms of game's mechanics, (b) is actually a very good point !

What I find a little painful with traps is that it renders the Thief class almost mandatory in several quests of BG1 / Durlag's Tower comes to mind. There is no other class that you really absolutely need to explore the game through and through. Now arguably, you can venture in DT without a thief, and try to buff while you spring all traps. It's certainly been done, but it requires perfect meta-gaming....

DinsdalePiranha

Ignatius said:

AHF said:

My guess is that the developers (a) wanted the PC to have to do something other than running summoned skeletons across traps to disarm them (although a few do go off) and (b) didn't want enemies setting off their own traps.

in terms of game's mechanics, (b) is actually a very good point !

What I find a little painful with traps is that it renders the Thief class almost mandatory in several quests of BG1 / Durlag's Tower comes to mind. There is no other class that you really absolutely need to explore the game through and through. Now arguably, you can venture in DT without a thief, and try to buff while you spring all traps. It's certainly been done, but it requires perfect meta-gaming....

...and playing on lower difficulty levels, because on insane and such, traps do 100 points of damage, easily - anyone walking over them will be splattered instantly. though I'm pretty sure that even on casual, those would hurt.

btw isn't trap disarming linked to the thief's open locks skill? because if I remember correctly, that's the case, so monks can easily go ahead, find the traps, then the thief could disable them.

bigdogchris

In the accompanying Feature Request thread started by Aosaw, I suggested giving Monks a "Trap Evasion" ability that you can assign skill points to. The idea is derived from 3rd Edition Evasion (EX) ability.

If their Trap Evasion skill is equal to or higher than the required skill level to disarm the trap, they will not trigger the trap. If the avoid is successful, dialogue will be displayed "CHARNAAME advoided a trap".

Oxford_Guy

DinsdalePiranha said:

btw isn't trap disarming linked to the thief's open locks skill? because if I remember correctly, that's the case, so monks can easily go ahead, find the traps, then the thief could disable them.

No, it's linked to their "Find Traps" skill AFAIK

Dee

@bigdogchris Oh, is that what you were proposing?

I like that a lot better, actually.

bigdogchris

Aosaw said:

@bigdogchris Oh, is that what you were proposing?

I like that a lot better, actually.

It's the same thing I posted in the other thread

Dee

Correction: "a lot better than what I proposed".

I misunderstood what you posted. The evasion idea makes a lot more sense.

Although--it has kind of the same problem that monks already have, which is that it makes the monk really powerful at later levels (you never have to worry about traps ever), and doesn't help the rest of the party at all.

It does, however, make the monk more viable for solo games, which I kind of like as a concept.

bigdogchris

I can see Monks being able to avoid traps, I just don't see them disarming them.

I think the idea is a good addition and helps everyone out.

DinsdalePiranha

Oxford_Guy said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

btw isn't trap disarming linked to the thief's open locks skill? because if I remember correctly, that's the case, so monks can easily go ahead, find the traps, then the thief could disable them.

No, it's linked to their "Find Traps" skill AFAIK

gonna try it out tonight, I already have BG2 installed anyway, with a save near thieves guild (the trapped chests/doors and all), we'll see.

Dee

Right--That's actually where I was coming from with the "temporary disarm" effect. I was trying to use an existing mechanic to accomplish, more or less, what you were saying; my thought being that a monk could see the trap, examine its workings, and then tell the rest of the party how to get past it as well.