@ThacoBell No worries. I'm actually more or less on your side with this one and it sounds like I might not even have to code it. ?.
Though I might take another look at the initial romance talk with Mazzy. I thought I rewrote her request to make it less hypocritical after all this Imoen stuff happened, but it sounds like I might have missed a line. Or could at least phrase it better.
The way its phrased, it sounds like Mazzy wouldn't be mad if charname wanted to pursue someone else, but that charname needs to tell her first so that she can end the relationship without feeling betrayed.
Okay yeah, that part is still true, but I should make it more obvious that she might choose to stay with CN as well depending on the situation. Though I'll probably wait until BCaesar finishes rewriting Imoen so I can make sure it all meshes properly.
The way its phrased, it sounds like Mazzy wouldn't be mad if charname wanted to pursue someone else, but that charname needs to tell her first so that she can end the relationship without feeling betrayed.
That... doesn't sound entirely unreasonable? It would just mean that she's really not *that* into the MC.
The way its phrased, it sounds like Mazzy wouldn't be mad if charname wanted to pursue someone else, but that charname needs to tell her first so that she can end the relationship without feeling betrayed.
That... doesn't sound entirely unreasonable? It would just mean that she's really not *that* into the MC.
The problem is she expresses that she doesn't want MC going around with others in addition to her, while she EXPECTS MC to be okay with her and Imoen while also in a relationship with MC. Its a double standard that does not fit Mazzy's character. Oh my gosh, I'm repeating myself now. I'll stop.
The way its phrased, it sounds like Mazzy wouldn't be mad if charname wanted to pursue someone else, but that charname needs to tell her first so that she can end the relationship without feeling betrayed.
That... doesn't sound entirely unreasonable? It would just mean that she's really not *that* into the MC.
The problem is she expresses that she doesn't want MC going around with others in addition to her, while she EXPECTS MC to be okay with her and Imoen while also in a relationship with MC. Its a double standard that does not fit Mazzy's character. Oh my gosh, I'm repeating myself now. I'll stop.
Ah, yeah, that's definitely not okay - I missed that bit. It would also be out of character for an NPC that is practically a paladin in every way but divine power to be that openly hypocritical. Arguably, it should be either/or, not both, regardless for a lawful good NPC.
Because not every party drama should be centered around the protagonist.
If you want something where the PC isn't the center of the universe, have we got a mod for you ?. As for the other, you can read the earlier thread for the play by play. As Thacobell said, there's no need to repeat it all again, especially since it's being edited.
Although, while my biggest contribution to Mazzy's romance was probably the 6 different ways to change your mind, I would argue that 1, as written BG paladins are some of the most hypocritical people around and 2, there is nothing inherently lawful about monogamy, it just depends on your society/personal code.
@ThacoBell Out of curiosity, did you get the CN response that's essentially "how can you ask me that when you're with Imoen" in response to Mazzy's request? If it didn't come up, then I need to check that code as well.
Personal opinion, but Mazzy - Imoen does not make much sense of a relationship at a glance. Regardless of what you define Imoen's sexuality as (Or even Mazzy's) I just don't see any chemistry whereas Mazzy-Valygar and Mazzy-Korgan do, even if both don't work for other reasons (Valygar is uninterested and Korgan has no deceny and is evil). So I am curious how the mod pulls off that particular challenge. It is on my do-download-and-play or at least read-writing list.
Imoen-Aerie has some plausible chemistry, but Aerie comes off strongly heterosexual and I was never really sold on how the writing tried to make it work in the Imoen romance. But I do enjoy it a lot more as a friendship.
@Ratatoskr Honeslty, I stopped playing as soon as I saw, "Charname will have to learn to share." Ended my run right there.
@Skitia "Imoen-Aerie has some plausible chemistry, but Aerie comes off strongly heterosexual and I was never really sold on how the writing tried to make it work in the Imoen romance. But I do enjoy it a lot more as a friendship."
I almost completely agree. I can see Aerie being a little experimental though. Despite her age, she acts very much like a young teen, and a traumatized one at that. I think its plausible that she would still be discovering who she is in SoA. Even after ToB, her epilogues can land her in two very different places in life.
Personal opinion, but Mazzy - Imoen does not make much sense of a relationship at a glance. Regardless of what you define Imoen's sexuality as (Or even Mazzy's) I just don't see any chemistry whereas Mazzy-Valygar and Mazzy-Korgan do, even if both don't work for other reasons (Valygar is uninterested and Korgan has no deceny and is evil). So I am curious how the mod pulls off that particular challenge. It is on my do-download-and-play or at least read-writing list.
We pull it off poorly, clearly
Imoen actually has almost no non-modded content in SoA once you rescue her. She's almost a blank slate there (though one that the Imoen Romance and some other mods have added a lot of content to).
@ThacoBell
Ok, so Ratatoskr is going (or has gone) through some of the romance lines to re-write a few and make them more consistent.
I've written a talk between Imoen-CharName that both provides a little back-story and makes things less sudden and also gives CN the option to object to the whole thing which will turn it off. It'll happen before the Imoen-Mazzy romance starts (immediately after their first couple of talks). We'll edit it up and stick it in the next version of the mod we post.
We have written this and coded this monstrosity over 3 years, whereas you play it in far less time, so there's bound to be some weird inconsistencies.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this is handled, because as it stands, it Mazzy/Imoen is going to be a case of opposites attract.
Maybe it's just me, but I always got the impression that, where Imoen was kind of loosey-goosey, Mazzy was so uptight that dogs started barking every time she passed gas. Hopefully this will be as funny as the original odd couple.
I REALLY hope that this is an improvement for other players and not just me. Because I this was a heck of a response.
Nah, it's an improvement with the changes. Even we think so. So thanks!
Also, I read Imoen-Aerie in the Imoen Romance and got an idea for a quick talk for ToB too in case Imoen-Aerie become a thing. That won't be posted immediately, but it'll make it in eventually in a later version. We already coded compatibility for Imoen-Charname in our mod, so might as well add the Aerie-Imoen thing too.
I have a soft spot for that mod (Imoen Romance) because when I first started coding it was the only mod I had that didn't tra all it's dialogues, which meant I could read the mod dialogue files and see what was happening. That made it the main mod I learned to code from. (It's also why we put all our dialogues in both the d and the tra files, it both makes it easier for ourselves, but also makes it much easier for any other coders trying to learn by copying stuff from our mod).
Anyways it's all done and tested. Ratatoskr will post it tomorrow. The new talk will show up immediately after Imoen-Mazzy's 2nd talk or so (or anytime after that if you load a save that's farther along), and gives you an option to give Imoen the green light or hold her back.
well the thing with the imoen romance is imoen asks you if she and aerie should go through with it.
mid way through they try out a spell to make aerie into girls if i remember correctly. but it could be a risk so they ask you if they should.
i agree with thacobell on one point. i don't remember imoen being that sexually active with halflings either. that line may need to be rewritten or taken out all together.
if anything or atlest from bg 1 npc project. imoen was never that interested in sex. like she had a crush on garrick but i felt until bg2 she was still a child and what happen to her made her mature abit so it made more sense for it to happen in 2 then in 1.
That was another issue with the Aerie/Imoen thing, the spell. I would have personally scrapped the romantic dynamic if I was writing the Imoen Romance. But that's me, and the mod wasn't made for my tastes. (Nor should it be!)
I haven't read all of this mod (Though enough to do some compatibility things for upcoming projects.). Again, I think modders have a lot of room of interpretation for Imoen, although Imoen visions can clash between mods. But I would recommend removing the multiple halfling mention too unless it really serves some narrative purpose. (A halfling maybe, even two, but many halflings less so). There were other elements in regards to sex & sexuality in this mod I had thoughts on that I read, but I want to leave the rest of my opinion for a proper review someday!
I also wouldn't use the BG1 NPC Project as any definition for defining a character personally. Not that it's bad, but that is one artist's vision. Modders shouldn't be beholden to one another to keep their interpretations the same.
I haven't tried the Imoen romance mod (I don't like romances so it's not my cup of tea) but I do think the idea of "Imoen Does Gullykin" is pretty funny.
@megamike15 Its been a loooong time for me, but isn't the spell they talk about trying
A wish spell to change Aerie into a man?
I might be remembering wrong.
@Permidion_Stark I think Imoen Romance is worth trying even if you don't like romances. Its basically for Imoen what this mod is for Mazzy. There's a very extensive friendship track that's quite good. I used the mod for years before an incompatibility issue (that might be fixed now) got in the way. I mostly just did the friendship path. ""Imoen Does Gullykin"" Oh geez, that sounds like a bad porn/comedy.
@BCaesar I'm still intensely curious where you got the information that halflings are apparently sex fiends as a race. I've never encountered that before and it really doesn't seem like something official. Was it the D&D wiki? They are mostly homebrew stuff. Oh, oh no. It wasn't the "Book of Erotic Fantasy" was it?
it's been a year since i did a run of ir with aerie so i don't remember either. and as i plan to romance aerie in my current run i won't see it again for awhile.
I have not read through this mod, as I don't want the surprise spoiled, so this isn't a "gripe".
A lot of D&D players started when they were young teens, and even a few pre-teens. It isn't surprising that a lot of attitudes regarding characters tended to be a bit juvenile as a result. Now that most of us are adults, the writing has improved, but there is still a risk of modders retaining those old habits. To be perfectly honest, I feel like Bioware themselves were guilty of some of this with the original romances. Aerie's romance is a perfect example of this - especially the ToB part.
However, my comment is about Imoen, not Aerie. Imoen is described throughout, but perhaps especially in the ToB epilogue, as having a child-like nature - one so bright and cheerful that she didn't suffer from the effects of the taint like most other Bhaalspawn. Her voice acting represents this well, and even in BG2, where she has been through a lot already, she maintains that cheerfulness.
Nothing about her screams sex kitten / vixen. In a lot of ways, I imagine that Imoen would be just as naive about relationships as Aerie, which is why (if properly written) those two could have an incredible dynamic. ( I haven't played the Imoen Romance either, so I don't know how it is handled).
Which brings me to the concern I have with how a Mazzy/Imoen relationship would actually work. Mazzy is a true Paladin, even if she never gets to officially be one. She is serious at all times, never seems to joke, and generally exudes the confidence and gravitas that Anomen should have, but didn't. In the runs with her in the party, I don't get the vibe from her character that she would get along with Imoen's antics, and would likely view her as childish. In the unmodded game, where Mazzy won't meet her until after she has been in Spellhold, it is likely she will also feel pity.
On the surface, this is not a good basis for a sexual relationship, but I will wait and see how it turns out. Perhaps my imagination is failing me on this?
@Maurvir I didn't see the Imoen/Mazzy relationship through, so I have no idea either.
I will say that there has been some interpretation of Mazzy that differs from mine, and what I think your comment indicates. But not to such a degree that I thought it was not a plausible interpretation. NPC mods are funny that way.
Imoen is described throughout, but perhaps especially in the ToB epilogue, as having a child-like nature - one so bright and cheerful that she didn't suffer from the effects of the taint like most other Bhaalspawn. Her voice acting represents this well, and even in BG2, where she has been through a lot already, she maintains that cheerfulness.
I'm sure that at some point Viconia describes Imoen as being a "flibbertigibbet", which is such a lovely word and very appropriate I think: Imoen is, after all, frivolous, whimsical and excessively talkative (especially in BG2 where she seems fond of asking inappropriate questions).
She definitely has a snark side to her. Remember that she was able to keep pace with Korgan in a game of insults... I need to run Korgan again. He is the most delightful genocidal maniac.
By the time @Ratatoskr and @BCaesar consider this mod "done", how long the title of the thread will be
We have a full on list now!
well the thing with the imoen romance is imoen asks you if she and aerie should go through with it.
mid way through they try out a spell to make aerie into girls if i remember correctly. but it could be a risk so they ask you if they should.
i agree with thacobell on one point. i don't remember imoen being that sexually active with halflings either. that line may need to be rewritten or taken out all together.
if anything or atlest from bg 1 npc project. imoen was never that interested in sex. like she had a crush on garrick but i felt until bg2 she was still a child and what happen to her made her mature abit so it made more sense for it to happen in 2 then in 1.
You don't remember it because it wasn't there. In the canon game there's nothing there's almost nothing there for Imoen in BG1 or in SoA after she gets captured. As I said the only time anyone even kisses in the original BG1 it's with a siren and they die. So we wrote in whatever we felt like. That's the advantage of making the mod .
We tend to view the game as a electronic representation of a story rather than the entire story itself, so we assume things are happening other than the exact movement and dialogue that happens on screen. People are talking, and visiting shops, and going to the bathroom, and hooking up, and getting into arguments, and we see only a sliver of that.
It's also possible that Imoen is exaggerating when she says, "half the town". Like when I say, "It's going to take a million years to finish this mod..." the actual number will be far less than a million. She's just saying she went from a life of almost no sex, to suddenly having as much as she could possibly want.
@BCaesar I'm still intensely curious where you got the information that halflings are apparently sex fiends as a race. I've never encountered that before and it really doesn't seem like something official. Was it the D&D wiki? They are mostly homebrew stuff. Oh, oh no. It wasn't the "Book of Erotic Fantasy" was it?
We just took what little information we could find cobbled together on stuff like the D&D wiki and then ran with it. Read through player handbooks and the like; there wasn't much. I wouldn't characterize them as sex fiends, merely as a culture that enjoys pleasure and recreation, and is entirely unattached to the normal human morality we're used to. Each individual halfling will have their individual preferences, but on the whole they enjoy fun and don't worry much. They raise animals, farm, and have a lot of free time which they use in social pursuits: eating, drinking, smoking weed, talking, spending time with their families, and canoodling.
So we took what we could find and then moved in a similar direction as we made up the rest. Once we decided on a direction we also took some inspiration from the Elves in Elf Quest.
for the most part modders do try to make the tone of their mods fit in with the rest of the game.
Yup, and for the most part we did. But it's also a mod written in 2017-20 instead of a game made in 1998. As a general rule the game leaves out a large swath of life in order to appeal to a commercial audience and avoid controversy. We're writing for free and people will play what they like. So we have no such constraints.
I have not read through this mod, as I don't want the surprise spoiled, so this isn't a "gripe".
A lot of D&D players started when they were young teens, and even a few pre-teens. It isn't surprising that a lot of attitudes regarding characters tended to be a bit juvenile as a result. Now that most of us are adults, the writing has improved, but there is still a risk of modders retaining those old habits. To be perfectly honest, I feel like Bioware themselves were guilty of some of this with the original romances. Aerie's romance is a perfect example of this - especially the ToB part.
However, my comment is about Imoen, not Aerie. Imoen is described throughout, but perhaps especially in the ToB epilogue, as having a child-like nature - one so bright and cheerful that she didn't suffer from the effects of the taint like most other Bhaalspawn. Her voice acting represents this well, and even in BG2, where she has been through a lot already, she maintains that cheerfulness.
Nothing about her screams sex kitten / vixen. In a lot of ways, I imagine that Imoen would be just as naive about relationships as Aerie, which is why (if properly written) those two could have an incredible dynamic. ( I haven't played the Imoen Romance either, so I don't know how it is handled).
Bright and cheerful doesn't mean being a virgin or being actually immature though; those are unrelated things. I know plenty of bright, cheerful, child-like adults (young and old) who love sex and have very active sex-lives, though they tend not to share that openly because in American culture having sex a lot, especially with multiple people and especially as a woman, makes you evil; that's changing depending on where you are but still largely true (which is why D&D started the way it did where chastity is good and sex is evil, which Aerie and Viconia both match perfectly).
Also keep in mind that even among us people who risk death frequently or who are extremely physically active tend to have a lot more sex, as do famous heroes, and Imoen (and adventurers in general) is all of those.
So in this particular mod, Imoen is still bright and cheerful, she just also enjoys having fun, light, consequence-free sex. There are clerics who can cure any diseases, there's no possible way with that much magic and potions around no one would've figured out birth control, and she's busy traveling from place to place risking death so there's no community of people she's living with to pass judgement on and shame her for violating expected social norms. We also stuck with the Imoen romance and made her bi with a somewhat-preference for girls, not because we feel any need to be consistent with other mods (we don't) but as I said before I have a soft spot for the Imoen Romance mod.
And if people don't like that then there will be a new version posted today by Ratatoskr where you can turn that off early on.
Ok that's enough of that. I'll check back in every few days to see if there's anything that needs my attention, otherwise I have an astounding number of things to do. You all enjoy the mod (or don't enjoy it; it's a free country ).
We're not going to rewrite how either Mazzy or Imoen approach sex, though we're happy to tinker around the edges to accommodate people (especially if it removes inconsistencies and makes the mod more like we want it to be), like we just did thanks to ThacoBell.
Luckily almost all of this mod you can either turn off, quickly skip through, or easily avoid. This was one part that you couldn't, but download the new version after it's posted (should be up sometime tonight, American Mountain Time) and you'll be able to easily skip it too.
Okay, that's a fan work page and not actually official. That makes sense, as race sexuality is almost never touched on in official material. I totally called D&D wiki
"We're not going to rewrite how either Mazzy or Imoen approach sex,"
I don't think you guys need to either, it was mostly the contradiction that bothered me. Mazzy being less uptight in common personal choices rather than moral ones is a bit more relatable. Nobody can be uptight all the time and be as emotionally balanced and compromising in reasonable areas as canon Mazzy is. Imoen not talking about sex at all and then coming out with a halfling orgy is hilarious though.
BCaesar, please make public the detailed change log of all updates that will be available in the next release. Thank you.
PS Is there any new content for Clara expected in this update ?
Will it be possible to continue from a save made with ver 2.05 or should one start from the very beginning to get all possible content and avoid potential bugs?
@skusha I always post the changelog when I announce a new version going up and I will do that tonight as well. Other than a couple minor changes, there won't be anything new for Clara in this version since all of her new content is still being edited.
@Mothor you should be fine to continue your current save with the new version. The Imoen-Mazzy stuff only triggers once you've hit chapter 4 or so and the other edits shouldn't affect an existing game.
Comments
Though I might take another look at the initial romance talk with Mazzy. I thought I rewrote her request to make it less hypocritical after all this Imoen stuff happened, but it sounds like I might have missed a line. Or could at least phrase it better.
That... doesn't sound entirely unreasonable? It would just mean that she's really not *that* into the MC.
The problem is she expresses that she doesn't want MC going around with others in addition to her, while she EXPECTS MC to be okay with her and Imoen while also in a relationship with MC. Its a double standard that does not fit Mazzy's character. Oh my gosh, I'm repeating myself now. I'll stop.
Ah, yeah, that's definitely not okay - I missed that bit. It would also be out of character for an NPC that is practically a paladin in every way but divine power to be that openly hypocritical. Arguably, it should be either/or, not both, regardless for a lawful good NPC.
If you want something where the PC isn't the center of the universe, have we got a mod for you ?. As for the other, you can read the earlier thread for the play by play. As Thacobell said, there's no need to repeat it all again, especially since it's being edited.
Although, while my biggest contribution to Mazzy's romance was probably the 6 different ways to change your mind, I would argue that 1, as written BG paladins are some of the most hypocritical people around and 2, there is nothing inherently lawful about monogamy, it just depends on your society/personal code.
@ThacoBell Out of curiosity, did you get the CN response that's essentially "how can you ask me that when you're with Imoen" in response to Mazzy's request? If it didn't come up, then I need to check that code as well.
Imoen-Aerie has some plausible chemistry, but Aerie comes off strongly heterosexual and I was never really sold on how the writing tried to make it work in the Imoen romance. But I do enjoy it a lot more as a friendship.
@Skitia "Imoen-Aerie has some plausible chemistry, but Aerie comes off strongly heterosexual and I was never really sold on how the writing tried to make it work in the Imoen romance. But I do enjoy it a lot more as a friendship."
I almost completely agree. I can see Aerie being a little experimental though. Despite her age, she acts very much like a young teen, and a traumatized one at that. I think its plausible that she would still be discovering who she is in SoA. Even after ToB, her epilogues can land her in two very different places in life.
We pull it off poorly, clearly
Imoen actually has almost no non-modded content in SoA once you rescue her. She's almost a blank slate there (though one that the Imoen Romance and some other mods have added a lot of content to).
@ThacoBell
Ok, so Ratatoskr is going (or has gone) through some of the romance lines to re-write a few and make them more consistent.
I've written a talk between Imoen-CharName that both provides a little back-story and makes things less sudden and also gives CN the option to object to the whole thing which will turn it off. It'll happen before the Imoen-Mazzy romance starts (immediately after their first couple of talks). We'll edit it up and stick it in the next version of the mod we post.
We have written this and coded this monstrosity over 3 years, whereas you play it in far less time, so there's bound to be some weird inconsistencies.
Maybe it's just me, but I always got the impression that, where Imoen was kind of loosey-goosey, Mazzy was so uptight that dogs started barking every time she passed gas. Hopefully this will be as funny as the original odd couple.
Nah, it's an improvement with the changes. Even we think so. So thanks!
Also, I read Imoen-Aerie in the Imoen Romance and got an idea for a quick talk for ToB too in case Imoen-Aerie become a thing. That won't be posted immediately, but it'll make it in eventually in a later version. We already coded compatibility for Imoen-Charname in our mod, so might as well add the Aerie-Imoen thing too.
I have a soft spot for that mod (Imoen Romance) because when I first started coding it was the only mod I had that didn't tra all it's dialogues, which meant I could read the mod dialogue files and see what was happening. That made it the main mod I learned to code from. (It's also why we put all our dialogues in both the d and the tra files, it both makes it easier for ourselves, but also makes it much easier for any other coders trying to learn by copying stuff from our mod).
Anyways it's all done and tested. Ratatoskr will post it tomorrow. The new talk will show up immediately after Imoen-Mazzy's 2nd talk or so (or anytime after that if you load a save that's farther along), and gives you an option to give Imoen the green light or hold her back.
i agree with thacobell on one point. i don't remember imoen being that sexually active with halflings either. that line may need to be rewritten or taken out all together.
if anything or atlest from bg 1 npc project. imoen was never that interested in sex. like she had a crush on garrick but i felt until bg2 she was still a child and what happen to her made her mature abit so it made more sense for it to happen in 2 then in 1.
I haven't read all of this mod (Though enough to do some compatibility things for upcoming projects.). Again, I think modders have a lot of room of interpretation for Imoen, although Imoen visions can clash between mods. But I would recommend removing the multiple halfling mention too unless it really serves some narrative purpose. (A halfling maybe, even two, but many halflings less so). There were other elements in regards to sex & sexuality in this mod I had thoughts on that I read, but I want to leave the rest of my opinion for a proper review someday!
I also wouldn't use the BG1 NPC Project as any definition for defining a character personally. Not that it's bad, but that is one artist's vision. Modders shouldn't be beholden to one another to keep their interpretations the same.
@Permidion_Stark I think Imoen Romance is worth trying even if you don't like romances. Its basically for Imoen what this mod is for Mazzy. There's a very extensive friendship track that's quite good. I used the mod for years before an incompatibility issue (that might be fixed now) got in the way. I mostly just did the friendship path. ""Imoen Does Gullykin"" Oh geez, that sounds like a bad porn/comedy.
@BCaesar I'm still intensely curious where you got the information that halflings are apparently sex fiends as a race. I've never encountered that before and it really doesn't seem like something official. Was it the D&D wiki? They are mostly homebrew stuff. Oh, oh no. It wasn't the "Book of Erotic Fantasy" was it?
A lot of D&D players started when they were young teens, and even a few pre-teens. It isn't surprising that a lot of attitudes regarding characters tended to be a bit juvenile as a result. Now that most of us are adults, the writing has improved, but there is still a risk of modders retaining those old habits. To be perfectly honest, I feel like Bioware themselves were guilty of some of this with the original romances. Aerie's romance is a perfect example of this - especially the ToB part.
However, my comment is about Imoen, not Aerie. Imoen is described throughout, but perhaps especially in the ToB epilogue, as having a child-like nature - one so bright and cheerful that she didn't suffer from the effects of the taint like most other Bhaalspawn. Her voice acting represents this well, and even in BG2, where she has been through a lot already, she maintains that cheerfulness.
Nothing about her screams sex kitten / vixen. In a lot of ways, I imagine that Imoen would be just as naive about relationships as Aerie, which is why (if properly written) those two could have an incredible dynamic. ( I haven't played the Imoen Romance either, so I don't know how it is handled).
Which brings me to the concern I have with how a Mazzy/Imoen relationship would actually work. Mazzy is a true Paladin, even if she never gets to officially be one. She is serious at all times, never seems to joke, and generally exudes the confidence and gravitas that Anomen should have, but didn't. In the runs with her in the party, I don't get the vibe from her character that she would get along with Imoen's antics, and would likely view her as childish. In the unmodded game, where Mazzy won't meet her until after she has been in Spellhold, it is likely she will also feel pity.
On the surface, this is not a good basis for a sexual relationship, but I will wait and see how it turns out. Perhaps my imagination is failing me on this?
I will say that there has been some interpretation of Mazzy that differs from mine, and what I think your comment indicates. But not to such a degree that I thought it was not a plausible interpretation. NPC mods are funny that way.
I'm sure that at some point Viconia describes Imoen as being a "flibbertigibbet", which is such a lovely word and very appropriate I think: Imoen is, after all, frivolous, whimsical and excessively talkative (especially in BG2 where she seems fond of asking inappropriate questions).
she will still joke around but she isnt as childish as she is in bg1.
By the time @Ratatoskr and @BCaesar consider this mod "done", how long the title of the thread will be
We have a full on list now!
You don't remember it because it wasn't there. In the canon game there's nothing there's almost nothing there for Imoen in BG1 or in SoA after she gets captured. As I said the only time anyone even kisses in the original BG1 it's with a siren and they die. So we wrote in whatever we felt like. That's the advantage of making the mod
We tend to view the game as a electronic representation of a story rather than the entire story itself, so we assume things are happening other than the exact movement and dialogue that happens on screen. People are talking, and visiting shops, and going to the bathroom, and hooking up, and getting into arguments, and we see only a sliver of that.
It's also possible that Imoen is exaggerating when she says, "half the town". Like when I say, "It's going to take a million years to finish this mod..." the actual number will be far less than a million. She's just saying she went from a life of almost no sex, to suddenly having as much as she could possibly want.
We just took what little information we could find cobbled together on stuff like the D&D wiki and then ran with it. Read through player handbooks and the like; there wasn't much. I wouldn't characterize them as sex fiends, merely as a culture that enjoys pleasure and recreation, and is entirely unattached to the normal human morality we're used to. Each individual halfling will have their individual preferences, but on the whole they enjoy fun and don't worry much. They raise animals, farm, and have a lot of free time which they use in social pursuits: eating, drinking, smoking weed, talking, spending time with their families, and canoodling.
Here's the one I mentioned before:
https://dungeons.fandom.com/wiki/Race_Cultures-_Romance_&_Sexuality_(3.5e_Other)
There are a few others around that mention romance that I can't find right now, but I remember they all basically just copy-pasted from that one.
Here's more on halflings, but none of them mention relationships or sex.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/races/halfling
http://orbisrpg.co.uk/Planescape/players_handbook.pdf (pg 47)
http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/halfling-athas
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/halfling/
So we took what we could find and then moved in a similar direction as we made up the rest. Once we decided on a direction we also took some inspiration from the Elves in Elf Quest.
Yup, and for the most part we did. But it's also a mod written in 2017-20 instead of a game made in 1998. As a general rule the game leaves out a large swath of life in order to appeal to a commercial audience and avoid controversy. We're writing for free and people will play what they like. So we have no such constraints.
Bright and cheerful doesn't mean being a virgin or being actually immature though; those are unrelated things. I know plenty of bright, cheerful, child-like adults (young and old) who love sex and have very active sex-lives, though they tend not to share that openly because in American culture having sex a lot, especially with multiple people and especially as a woman, makes you evil; that's changing depending on where you are but still largely true (which is why D&D started the way it did where chastity is good and sex is evil, which Aerie and Viconia both match perfectly).
Also keep in mind that even among us people who risk death frequently or who are extremely physically active tend to have a lot more sex, as do famous heroes, and Imoen (and adventurers in general) is all of those.
So in this particular mod, Imoen is still bright and cheerful, she just also enjoys having fun, light, consequence-free sex. There are clerics who can cure any diseases, there's no possible way with that much magic and potions around no one would've figured out birth control, and she's busy traveling from place to place risking death so there's no community of people she's living with to pass judgement on and shame her for violating expected social norms. We also stuck with the Imoen romance and made her bi with a somewhat-preference for girls, not because we feel any need to be consistent with other mods (we don't) but as I said before I have a soft spot for the Imoen Romance mod.
And if people don't like that then there will be a new version posted today by Ratatoskr where you can turn that off early on.
Ok that's enough of that. I'll check back in every few days to see if there's anything that needs my attention, otherwise I have an astounding number of things to do. You all enjoy the mod (or don't enjoy it; it's a free country
We're not going to rewrite how either Mazzy or Imoen approach sex, though we're happy to tinker around the edges to accommodate people (especially if it removes inconsistencies and makes the mod more like we want it to be), like we just did thanks to ThacoBell.
Luckily almost all of this mod you can either turn off, quickly skip through, or easily avoid. This was one part that you couldn't, but download the new version after it's posted (should be up sometime tonight, American Mountain Time) and you'll be able to easily skip it too.
"We're not going to rewrite how either Mazzy or Imoen approach sex,"
I don't think you guys need to either, it was mostly the contradiction that bothered me. Mazzy being less uptight in common personal choices rather than moral ones is a bit more relatable. Nobody can be uptight all the time and be as emotionally balanced and compromising in reasonable areas as canon Mazzy is. Imoen not talking about sex at all and then coming out with a halfling orgy is hilarious though.
PS Is there any new content for Clara expected in this update ?
I have just recruited Mazzy btw.
@Mothor you should be fine to continue your current save with the new version. The Imoen-Mazzy stuff only triggers once you've hit chapter 4 or so and the other edits shouldn't affect an existing game.