I don't see a need for a Experience Cap at all. A wizard needs 135.000 xp for lvl 9, 250.000 for level 10, 375.000 for level 11. A rogue goes from 160.000 at level 10 to 220.000 at level 11. The most experience I've gotten in a cap-less run of Baldur's Gate was 250.000ish, giving one extra level to most of my partymembers. Hardly a gigantic boost in power.
If you want to grind monsters for levels way above the game's balance by resting over and over, that's fine, that's your choice, and hardly different from going into Shadowkeeper and changing the XP manually. And by that point, balance problems no longer lie with Game Design.
In short, I say drop the XP cap alltogether (or make it optional), it hardly makes a power difference for people who play the game normally, only serves to halt progress just before the finish line.
Personally, I like scaling difficulty when its goes like this: mobs always have a minimum level and can only scale upwards.
@Winthal The thing about Oblivion (from the little I played of it due to frustration) is that the scaling was done really poorly. Due to how the level up system worked in Oblivion, it was very easy to get crap stat increases when leveling up, the enemies however always scaled the same regardless of you getting good or crappy stats.
i never played oblivion myself but i heard a lot of bad stuff about leveling system and to some extent i had that kind of thing in mind when i warned against scaleable monsters.
it is also part of the adventuring charm to stumble upon overpowered enemy (and maybe winning or backing up and wait until you're stronger) as well as running into mob that would've been lethal a day ago, but now you wipe it out with ease. it makes you feel accomplished and gives a real sense of your power growth.
that's why i think it is very tricky to implement simple rules for scaling the enemies level wise, although i think the same could be done regarding xp gain. but, that would also mean you would get 200xp for killing ghast independant of it's level.
in the end, bg always functioned on fixed amount of xp per creature and i think this can be easily enough manipulated to slow down players progress a bit. if we'are talking about combat challenge that is different matter, as scaled monsters do not have to yield greater amount of xp, so that would fall under standard difficulty setting.
Personally, I like scaling difficulty when its goes like this: mobs always have a minimum level and can only scale upwards.
@Winthal The thing about Oblivion (from the little I played of it due to frustration) is that the scaling was done really poorly. Due to how the level up system worked in Oblivion, it was very easy to get crap stat increases when leveling up, the enemies however always scaled the same regardless of you getting good or crappy stats.
yep, that would seem to be the problem, but even if you optimized your character for every level up, gaining the absolute maximum on your offensive and defensive abilities, most monsters would still eat you alive. I remember running into a normal brown bear in a forest somewhere, his attacks were so fierce and fast that I simply couldn't beat him no matter what I did, no matter how many healing potions I wasted. He just mauled me into a pulp. In the end I had to run away, and even that was practically impossible because of his run speed and apparent deep-seated grudge against me (I must've done something horrible to that bear because he followed me for like 10 minutes). In the end I figured out that the game was easier by staying level 1 forever, and just finished it like that. Great system
I'm of the same mind as @trinit here, scaling just makes everything even out, become flat. Monsters hardly seem to differ from one another much this way either, if a Xvart hits nearly as hard as an Ankheg... it just feels wrong, and off. I say the problem lies in gaining XP too fast, making many enemies "obsolete" and uninteresting. So how do you normally gain XP? For me, early XP either involves paying the bassilisks a visit with a potion of mirrored eyes, or the flesh golem cave + sirens, if those places didn't give such insane XP, you wouldn't become OP early at least....
and just imagine the amount of xp going to be earned from disarming traps, opening locks, and learning wizard spells, ( and also if the game gives that whack 10 % xp boost from everything that gives you xp) you are going to sky rocket up levels, i remember when i played that BGT mod i was gaining so much xp so fast, places where i should be breaking my balls to be at 50 000 xp per character i was breaking pass 64 000 xp per character no sweat, yikes a doodles
@GemHound: there are a few seperate requests for harder difficulty, including implementing Sword Coast Strategems features like enemy pre-buffing, better ai, higher prices, all the usual stuff.
I also strongly dislike the idea of enemy scaling. Sometimes it's awesome to face enemies when you're far superior to them, and others it's better to test yourself against much harder enemies, and earn the rewards for it earlier.
I don't see a need for a Experience Cap at all. A wizard needs 135.000 xp for lvl 9, 250.000 for level 10, 375.000 for level 11. A rogue goes from 160.000 at level 10 to 220.000 at level 11. The most experience I've gotten in a cap-less run of Baldur's Gate was 250.000ish, giving one extra level to most of my partymembers. Hardly a gigantic boost in power.
Good point, it's really not that much of a difference so I would like to see the xp cap removed, or at least have it as an option. As far as scaling goes, I think it's difficult to implement in a good way and as @HeroicSpur said, it is a cool part of the game to face some enemies that are far superior to you and some that you're superior to.
@jaysl659: I was trying to suggest a neutral way of balancing it, but like i said in my first post, I always play with a LC remover anyway, if they would implement a removal, or the option for it, I would be strongly behind it.
I support the idea of having the level cap removed through an in-game option setting. It is very easy to hit the cap when playing with a solo character (I hit it in the Flesh Golem cave with a solo fighter-thief), and extremely frustrating. The game is hard enough if you play solo or with a small party, and the level cap seems to be balanced for a full party. Having the level cap removed is what forced me to go after mods in the first place, but I remember being frustrated at not having this option in the game itself.
I don't see a need for a Experience Cap at all. A wizard needs 135.000 xp for lvl 9, 250.000 for level 10, 375.000 for level 11. A rogue goes from 160.000 at level 10 to 220.000 at level 11. The most experience I've gotten in a cap-less run of Baldur's Gate was 250.000ish, giving one extra level to most of my partymembers. Hardly a gigantic boost in power.
Well,if you can't get more than 1-2 plus levels and the level cap will be raised (as already stated by devs), wouldnt that mean that you will practically be able go reach the same levels as without a level cap? This way everyone is happy. You get your maxed out character and I have a top level which I can strive for
I agree that hitting a level cap is a miserable state of affairs and takes out the 'buzz' of levelling, makes you wonder what the point of it all is, makes you want to slit your wrists etc. but your solution doesn't seem to be the right one, and it isn't kosher at all. I'm going to break my head on this a bit.
Level caps are just distorting your achievements. I remember very well - when I played through BG1 for the first time searching for as much sidequests as possible I was stuck on the cap long before the end. My multiclass main character was stuck on a ridiculous low level (something around level 3/3/3). The only reason for level caps are to limit loopholes like the 2 infinite XP loopholes in Soa and ToB. I'd rather cut those loopholes. I totally removed the caps via mods repeatedly (and didn't exploit the loopholes) and never found it to be unbalancing so I say ditch the XP cap or just set it on something very high like some level 40 - a level cap would be much better than an XP cap anyway. No one will ever notice a missing or very high cap. However, suddenly not getting XP anymore despite fulfilling quests will be noticed, negatively.
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The most experience I've gotten in a cap-less run of Baldur's Gate was 250.000ish, giving one extra level to most of my partymembers. Hardly a gigantic boost in power.
If you want to grind monsters for levels way above the game's balance by resting over and over, that's fine, that's your choice, and hardly different from going into Shadowkeeper and changing the XP manually. And by that point, balance problems no longer lie with Game Design.
In short, I say drop the XP cap alltogether (or make it optional), it hardly makes a power difference for people who play the game normally, only serves to halt progress just before the finish line.
@Winthal
The thing about Oblivion (from the little I played of it due to frustration) is that the scaling was done really poorly. Due to how the level up system worked in Oblivion, it was very easy to get crap stat increases when leveling up, the enemies however always scaled the same regardless of you getting good or crappy stats.
i never played oblivion myself but i heard a lot of bad stuff about leveling system and to some extent i had that kind of thing in mind when i warned against scaleable monsters.
it is also part of the adventuring charm to stumble upon overpowered enemy (and maybe winning or backing up and wait until you're stronger) as well as running into mob that would've been lethal a day ago, but now you wipe it out with ease. it makes you feel accomplished and gives a real sense of your power growth.
that's why i think it is very tricky to implement simple rules for scaling the enemies level wise, although i think the same could be done regarding xp gain. but, that would also mean you would get 200xp for killing ghast independant of it's level.
in the end, bg always functioned on fixed amount of xp per creature and i think this can be easily enough manipulated to slow down players progress a bit. if we'are talking about combat challenge that is different matter, as scaled monsters do not have to yield greater amount of xp, so that would fall under standard difficulty setting.
I'm of the same mind as @trinit here, scaling just makes everything even out, become flat. Monsters hardly seem to differ from one another much this way either, if a Xvart hits nearly as hard as an Ankheg... it just feels wrong, and off. I say the problem lies in gaining XP too fast, making many enemies "obsolete" and uninteresting. So how do you normally gain XP? For me, early XP either involves paying the bassilisks a visit with a potion of mirrored eyes, or the flesh golem cave + sirens, if those places didn't give such insane XP, you wouldn't become OP early at least....
I also strongly dislike the idea of enemy scaling. Sometimes it's awesome to face enemies when you're far superior to them, and others it's better to test yourself against much harder enemies, and earn the rewards for it earlier.
The only reason for level caps are to limit loopholes like the 2 infinite XP loopholes in Soa and ToB. I'd rather cut those loopholes.
I totally removed the caps via mods repeatedly (and didn't exploit the loopholes) and never found it to be unbalancing so I say ditch the XP cap or just set it on something very high like some level 40 - a level cap would be much better than an XP cap anyway. No one will ever notice a missing or very high cap. However, suddenly not getting XP anymore despite fulfilling quests will be noticed, negatively.
At a glance I agree that a level cap may be superior to an exp cap, though someone else might notice holes in it...