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Conjurer Dualed to Fighter

I wanted to make a versatile character that has very good fighting abilities. I opted for a Conjurer 3 dualed to Fighter as this allowed me to use wands and scrolls plus have some useful spells like knock and find familiar to give me a few thief skills, my familiar is a ferret so it can pickpockets and find traps. I will go for all the good Bhaalspawn abilities to give me access to a few Cleric spells.

I will solo most of BG1, but do Dorn’s quest to get the elven chain mail. Does any one have any suggestions for other items that might help in my goal to become a complete all round character but very competent Fighter. I will be taking the character through SODS and BG2. I did agonize over being a mage first so I had access to identify.

All thoughts would be most welcome.

LethlianGusinda

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,214
    You have a good base already for your plan. What weapons do you plan on using?

    10Bazza11
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 2,940
    I would wait until level 7 or 5.

    Level 5 you have access to Haste, Slow, Melf's Minute Meteor, Dispel Magic, Protection From Normal Missile (a life-saver in BGEE) and Monster Summoning I (aka cannon fodder for hostile spells)

    Level 7 gets everything from level 5 plus Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Enchanted Weapon (can save you more times than you can think) and Fireshield.

    Lethlian10Bazza11
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,214
    If they are going to dual late, they might as well multiclass it.

    Lethlian10Bazza11BelgarathMTH
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151
    ThacoBell said:

    You have a good base already for your plan. What weapons do you plan on using?

    I was planning on starting out with darts then when I dual going long sword and long bow and taking long sword up to 5 pips. Perhaps going flail after that.

    ThacoBell
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151
    Raduziel said:

    I would wait until level 7 or 5.

    Level 5 you have access to Haste, Slow, Melf's Minute Meteor, Dispel Magic, Protection From Normal Missile (a life-saver in BGEE) and Monster Summoning I (aka cannon fodder for hostile spells)

    Level 7 gets everything from level 5 plus Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Enchanted Weapon (can save you more times than you can think) and Fireshield.

    I was tempted to gain a few more Conjurer for the said spells but the idea was to get into fighting as quick as possible. I can always use scrolls.

  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151
    Is Conjurer the best school for this character build to start in?

    Also will my spell level progression stop at 3 or continue with my fighter levels?

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,203
    edited July 25
    Your spell progression will stop as a level 3 conjurer (i.e., 3 first-level spells and 2 second-level spells).

    Most people find that the inverse dual-class is more powerful (i.e., fighter->mage), since the power level for mages ramps up dramatically at higher levels - the old linear-warriors vs quadratic-wizards issue. Popular levels to dual from fighter->mage are 7 (for the APR bump), 9 (for max hp and extra weapon proficiency) and 13 (for the APR bump).

    If you want to play a spell-slinging fighter, you could consider a fighter/mage multi-class or even a blade (bard kit).

    ThacoBell10Bazza11
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,214
    10Bazza11 said:

    ThacoBell said:

    You have a good base already for your plan. What weapons do you plan on using?

    I was planning on starting out with darts then when I dual going long sword and long bow and taking long sword up to 5 pips. Perhaps going flail after that.
    That's a pretty decent weapon choice.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 297
    Raduziel said:

    I would wait until level 7 or 5.

    Level 5 you have access to Haste, Slow, Melf's Minute Meteor, Dispel Magic, Protection From Normal Missile (a life-saver in BGEE) and Monster Summoning I (aka cannon fodder for hostile spells)

    Level 7 gets everything from level 5 plus Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Enchanted Weapon (can save you more times than you can think) and Fireshield.

    Stoneskin scales based on your level though, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be not much use if you dual at level 7?

    10Bazza11
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 2,940
    It's the difference between killing the Ravager while Near Death or being killed by it.

  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151

    Your spell progression will stop as a level 3 conjurer (i.e., 3 first-level spells and 2 second-level spells).

    Most people find that the inverse dual-class is more powerful (i.e., fighter->mage), since the power level for mages ramps up dramatically at higher levels - the old linear-warriors vs quadratic-wizards issue. Popular levels to dual from fighter->mage are 7 (for the APR bump), 9 (for max hp and extra weapon proficiency) and 13 (for the APR bump).

    If you want to play a spell-slinging fighter, you could consider a fighter/mage multi-class or even a blade (bard kit).

    Apologies I do not think I worded that well. Some spells get better with level ie the duration will increase each level obtained, will that stop at 3 for my character or increase with the fighter levels?

    I did test out a Blade and a Swashbuckler as I thought one of these classes word serve my purpose fine. However on my Icewind Dale test both died relatively early in the run through, the Mage dualed to Fighter fared a lot better.

    The aim was to role play as a fighter that picked up a few mage skills in their stay Candlekeep. With the mage skills i would have a limited access to certain Thief skills and by receiving all the good Bhaalspawn abilities I would also have access to a few Cleric spells.

    Basically the character would be as good a fighter as if I started out as Fighter but possible with a few less hit points, but with a smattering of Mage, Thief and Cleric abilities.

    Contemplative_Hamster
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,486
    Your casting level will be stuck at 3. That's fine though - you can still do a huge amount of damage just by making use of mage scrolls and magic items. A dual this way round is stronger than a fighter to mage dual in BG1. You may lose the edge in power later in BG2, but you'll still have plenty of options to beat the game there as well.

    10Bazza11StummvonBordwehrThacoBell
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151
    Grond0 said:

    Your casting level will be stuck at 3. That's fine though - you can still do a huge amount of damage just by making use of mage scrolls and magic items. A dual this way round is stronger than a fighter to mage dual in BG1. You may lose the edge in power later in BG2, but you'll still have plenty of options to beat the game there as well.

    Thanks for the advice Grond0. That is what I thought, I will just employ some help with the later game. I was not necessarily doing a complete solo run. Do you have any tips on items in BG2 that will help with my characters diversity I always struggle to finish BG2.

  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 23
    I say go for it. It is a bit different from the usual build but still sounds very effective and fun.

    You mentioned identify though, Conjurers cannot use divination unfortunately. Have you considered enchantment specialisation instead? The saving throw bonuses/penalties for that school could be very useful, sleep will be great early on, you can get identify. Losing out on evocation scrolls will be a nuisance but the wands of fire, cloudkill etc will still be usable.

    Another option is to go illusionist and let your rep fluctuate around the mid point to get some necromantic spells mixed in with your bhaalspawn abilities.

    10Bazza11ThacoBell
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151

    I say go for it. It is a bit different from the usual build but still sounds very effective and fun.

    You mentioned identify though, Conjurers cannot use divination unfortunately. Have you considered enchantment specialisation instead? The saving throw bonuses/penalties for that school could be very useful, sleep will be great early on, you can get identify. Losing out on evocation scrolls will be a nuisance but the wands of fire, cloudkill etc will still be usable.

    Another option is to go illusionist and let your rep fluctuate around the mid point to get some necromantic spells mixed in with your bhaalspawn abilities.

    Very_BigSword this is a very good point I don't really have a lot of experience with the different schools of magic as I normally play as a mage so any advice is most welcome.

  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 23
    10Bazza11 said:


    Very_BigSword this is a very good point I don't really have a lot of experience with the different schools of magic as I normally play as a mage so any advice is most welcome.

    I suggest to simply consider what spells, including scrolls, you would most like the wizard/fighter to use during each of BG1 and BG2. For example, if mirror image/invisibility/project image are essential casts you would not want to be a necromancer. Determining which spells are most wanted should help you eliminate undesirable specialties.

    Next thing to consider is the specialist bonus to saving throws vs your school, and penalty to enemy saving throws against. Think about which offensive spells you plan to cast and what kind of spells would most often be cast on you.

    Weighing up these factors with your playstyle should bring you to the right choice. For me that led to enchanter as the most intriguing pick but others might like something different. Nothing wrong with an invoker/fighter running circles around a web with aganazzars scorcher and boots of speed. The saving throw bonus would be handy vs fireballs and enemies more likely to take full damage etc.

    10Bazza11ThacoBellContemplative_Hamster
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 512
    I built this and got to... the middle of SoD before being fried by a couple albino wyverns. A couple of thoughts:
    Only spells that matter for this build are non-caster level related. Major ones early I can think of are Identify, Shield, Protection from Petrification, Blind, Color Spray or Sleep, Find Familiar, Friends, and at level 2, Invisibility, Knock, Web, Horror, Stinking Cloud. Mirror Image CAN be used, but it’s very limited in duration unless you commit hard to mage levels. I personally only used Invisibility and Knock. 3rd level: Invisibility 10’ radius, Dire Charm, and Spell Thrust. Level 4 gives you Improved Invisibility (for a very short period of time), enchanted weapon, stoneskins, and a couple other... dubiously useful things.

    So my preferred build was Enchanter 3 -> Fighter, for reasons stated above. I lost Shield, but the Shield Amulet can fix that problem if Magic Missiles were really a problem. Delaying until 5 is... OK, but it means on average 12 less HP and you’re really only getting Invisibility 10’ radius in the bargain. You can’t even reliably get a scroll of that in BG1! If you wait til 7, you might as well multiclass at that point.

    I played BG1 as a normal armored Fighter who had the ability to use wands and use scrolls as necessary. I travelled invisibly, and at the end of the day or during breaks identified all the loot I got earlier. In SoD, I knew I could safely take Dynaheir as my main mage since I could cast Enchanted Weapon from scroll, and purchased a scroll of stoneskin for the final battle. No idea how well it works in BG2, but I can’t imagine it’d be worse off than a standard Fighter.

    10Bazza11ThacoBellContemplative_Hamster
  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 23
    Also for BG1 robe of the archmagi will be same AC as elven chain, has additional bonuses and is available sooner. Doing Dorn's quest would then be optional.

    10Bazza11ThacoBellRaduziel
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151
    Neverused said:

    I built this and got to... the middle of SoD before being fried by a couple albino wyverns. A couple of thoughts:
    Only spells that matter for this build are non-caster level related. Major ones early I can think of are Identify, Shield, Protection from Petrification, Blind, Color Spray or Sleep, Find Familiar, Friends, and at level 2, Invisibility, Knock, Web, Horror, Stinking Cloud. Mirror Image CAN be used, but it’s very limited in duration unless you commit hard to mage levels. I personally only used Invisibility and Knock. 3rd level: Invisibility 10’ radius, Dire Charm, and Spell Thrust. Level 4 gives you Improved Invisibility (for a very short period of time), enchanted weapon, stoneskins, and a couple other... dubiously useful things.

    So my preferred build was Enchanter 3 -> Fighter, for reasons stated above. I lost Shield, but the Shield Amulet can fix that problem if Magic Missiles were really a problem. Delaying until 5 is... OK, but it means on average 12 less HP and you’re really only getting Invisibility 10’ radius in the bargain. You can’t even reliably get a scroll of that in BG1! If you wait til 7, you might as well multiclass at that point.

    I played BG1 as a normal armored Fighter who had the ability to use wands and use scrolls as necessary. I travelled invisibly, and at the end of the day or during breaks identified all the loot I got earlier. In SoD, I knew I could safely take Dynaheir as my main mage since I could cast Enchanted Weapon from scroll, and purchased a scroll of stoneskin for the final battle. No idea how well it works in BG2, but I can’t imagine it’d be worse off than a standard Fighter.

    Thank you Neverused this is exactly how I intend to play my character. O have already cast luck on my ferret familiar to steal Algernon's Cloak and detect a few traps. I have found you use a lot more of the utility spells with this play style.

  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151

    Also for BG1 robe of the archmagi will be same AC as elven chain, has additional bonuses and is available sooner. Doing Dorn's quest would then be optional.

    Thank you Very_BigSword. This is a very good point as I would much rather solo BG1

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,486
    10Bazza11 said:

    Grond0 said:

    Your casting level will be stuck at 3. That's fine though - you can still do a huge amount of damage just by making use of mage scrolls and magic items. A dual this way round is stronger than a fighter to mage dual in BG1. You may lose the edge in power later in BG2, but you'll still have plenty of options to beat the game there as well.

    Thanks for the advice Grond0. That is what I thought, I will just employ some help with the later game. I was not necessarily doing a complete solo run. Do you have any tips on items in BG2 that will help with my characters diversity I always struggle to finish BG2.
    Well if you're patient you can use cloudkill wands to kill virtually all enemies. Wands of monster summoning are not over-powered in the same way as in BG1, but can still give you useful cover to do some smacking as a fighter. For direct damage it's hard to beat the scorcher function of the wand of fire, while wands of polymorphing and wonder can deal with some nasty enemies (like dragons).

    Or you could just rely mainly on your fighting abilities, with the odd spell (like blindness) thrown in. If you're playing unmodded then a single scroll of undead protection is all you need to get the Ring of Gaxx to deal with both your healing needs and give your saving throws a big boost.

    StummvonBordwehrThacoBell10Bazza11
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 227
    10Bazza11 said:

    The aim was to role play as a fighter that picked up a few mage skills in their stay Candlekeep. With the mage skills i would have a limited access to certain Thief skills and by receiving all the good Bhaalspawn abilities I would also have access to a few Cleric spells.

    The synergies between fighter and mage keep getting better as you gain mage levels so you'd be better off from a powergaming point of view if you dualed later (or just went with a multiclassed fighter/mage). Powergaming isn't everything, though. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do something a bit off the beaten path and an early dual would be a lot better RP-wise for your vision of the character as a warrior who just happens to know a few spells.



    10Bazza11
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151
    Grond0 said:

    10Bazza11 said:

    Grond0 said:

    Your casting level will be stuck at 3. That's fine though - you can still do a huge amount of damage just by making use of mage scrolls and magic items. A dual this way round is stronger than a fighter to mage dual in BG1. You may lose the edge in power later in BG2, but you'll still have plenty of options to beat the game there as well.

    Thanks for the advice Grond0. That is what I thought, I will just employ some help with the later game. I was not necessarily doing a complete solo run. Do you have any tips on items in BG2 that will help with my characters diversity I always struggle to finish BG2.
    Well if you're patient you can use cloudkill wands to kill virtually all enemies. Wands of monster summoning are not over-powered in the same way as in BG1, but can still give you useful cover to do some smacking as a fighter. For direct damage it's hard to beat the scorcher function of the wand of fire, while wands of polymorphing and wonder can deal with some nasty enemies (like dragons).

    Or you could just rely mainly on your fighting abilities, with the odd spell (like blindness) thrown in. If you're playing unmodded then a single scroll of undead protection is all you need to get the Ring of Gaxx to deal with both your healing needs and give your saving throws a big boost.
    Thank you Grond0 this is fantastic advice and just what I was looking for. I am playing unmodded so when I make it to BG2 I will be heading to get the ring of Gaxx.

    Grond0StummvonBordwehr
  • 10Bazza1110Bazza11 Member Posts: 151
    jsaving said:

    10Bazza11 said:

    The aim was to role play as a fighter that picked up a few mage skills in their stay Candlekeep. With the mage skills i would have a limited access to certain Thief skills and by receiving all the good Bhaalspawn abilities I would also have access to a few Cleric spells.

    The synergies between fighter and mage keep getting better as you gain mage levels so you'd be better off from a powergaming point of view if you dualed later (or just went with a multiclassed fighter/mage). Powergaming isn't everything, though. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do something a bit off the beaten path and an early dual would be a lot better RP-wise for your vision of the character as a warrior who just happens to know a few spells.



    Thanks Jasving. If I was looking to power game I would definitely go the Fighter > Mage or multiclass Fighter/Mage route. But I feel my character is better than just a single class Fighter of the same level especially when I get to higher levels then the 5,000 xp spent on Mage will be insignificant. I will have a few less hit points but I will have access to wands and scrolls.

    Contemplative_Hamster
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