What to do with my Cav (or, a Cav with staves? No really!)

Kneller

TLDR: There are a lot of cool weapons in this game and I want to use them all. Also, I'm using GoG classic with Tutu and have no qualms about Shadowkeepering proficiencies.

I'm doing the saga from the start. Using canon party in BG1 and Canon party (Minsc, Jah, Yoshi->Imoen) in BG2. I'll probably pick up a cleric (Aerie for super spell goodness and to give Minsc a witch) or Vic (single-classed clerics are less likely to have buffs dispelled).

Strongly leaning towards a Cav for my PC. I could be convinced for the Inquisitor, but that DM is going to knock out my buffs as well as the enemy's spells, so I'm on the fence. Also, as far as a Paladin goes, the storybook Cavalier makes a little more sense for a character who grew up around, well, a lot of books.

Side note, a long time ago on a forum far, far, away (might have been here, actually), there was a hilarious post satirizing the debate over which class makes the most sense for charname. In this post, the OP provided an argument why the PC would be starting with skill (and possibly specialization) in staves that was as well-thought-out as it was insincere.

Jah is definitely starting with staves and slings, following up with 2h weapon, then spears, then, I dunno, darts? who cares. This is partly for conceptual reasons and partly because there are actually a lot of cool staves and spears. I know people love belming it up with her, but I'm not sold. Anyway, she can cast some druid spells if needed, then follow me into battle.

Minsc, I'm liking for axes and bows to start. It's very woodsmany. From there, I'm pretty open. I plan to keep in in leathers the whole game because it's more rangery. Besides, he can stealth in to a good position (i.e. behind a mage) before a battle starts then pop out in the first round my Cav sets it off.

Finally, there's my Cav. I feel like there's two directions. Essentially, 2h weapon or TWF. I don't think the holy sword is the be all end all of options. Especially since there are so many cool weapons, it's worth using them all.

For 2h weapon, I would probably start with ** staves and ** 2H weapon because the post that supports the argument was just that funny and entertaining. Also, there's actually a lot of great staves in the game, so I wouldn't be stealing Jah's thunder really. From there, I'd likely do ** 2H sword in time for Spider's Bane in Cloakwood (once I get that, my main strategy is to spam web and clean up). After that, possibly axes? I know the typical Cav move is to do 2h sword and axes from the start (for the throwers), but it's a little out of character for me, so it's not a priority. In this case, Minsc would likely go flails for the FoA/DoE combo (the latter helping balance out his leather armor situation). Obviously, I'd be using the holy sword, but i might just focus that on mage battles and swap out other weapons for other types of fights for funsies

For 1h weapons, most likely longswords and flails. Then TWF then bastard swords. I lose out on Spiders bane for BG1, and the holy sword in BG2, but I'll likely be doing FoA/DoE until I can do Foebane and Purifier probably. If that's the case, it's probably Minsc on Axes and then I don't know what. Maces are kinda meh (especially since my LG self won't upgrade the MoD). Maybe scimitars and he can belm? Haven't really figured this one out.

I'm still on the fence with either build and am looking for some input to push me one way or the other.

DJKajuru

In BG1 : 2 pps in quarterstaves and two handed weapon fighting. Take the staff+3 in Ulgoths beard as soon as you get the chance.
In BG2: Allocate pps in two handed sword and you advance in levels and use sweet Carsomyr.

sarevok57

in bg1 i have my pallys use scimitars so he can ironically use drizzt's defender ( or frost brand if someone else is using defender ) then in SoA i start using katanas so then my pally can use celestial fury, and then for ToB i go bastard sword and start with foebane and ending with the purifier, and my crushing weapon of choice? mace, stupifier in bg1, mace/improved mace of disruption in bg2/tob

also when it comes to buff dispelling, they cap at level 20, so for example, if viconia is level 30 and she casts protection from evil 10' radius, it will be cast as if viconia was level 20 ( because all spells cap out at level 20 in the bg series ) in SoA it may be helpful for that single class high level casting, but once you hit ToB most bosses are level 30 and will never fail at dispelling your stuff regardless of your level, so useful in SoA, useless in ToB

Kneller

sarevok57 said:

...because all spells cap out at level 20 in the bg series ) in SoA it may be helpful for that single class high level casting, but once you hit ToB most bosses are level 30 and will never fail at dispelling your stuff regardless of your level, so useful in SoA, useless in ToB

I knew about the level 20 cap on spells in terms of effect, but I thought that dispel was something different, or capped as well (so a level 30 boss casting dispel magic does so as if a level 20 caster). Not the case?

And if so, is there really a point in buffs at that point? If not, what do you do with your divine caster?

sarevok57

Kneller said:

sarevok57 said:

...because all spells cap out at level 20 in the bg series ) in SoA it may be helpful for that single class high level casting, but once you hit ToB most bosses are level 30 and will never fail at dispelling your stuff regardless of your level, so useful in SoA, useless in ToB

I knew about the level 20 cap on spells in terms of effect, but I thought that dispel was something different, or capped as well (so a level 30 boss casting dispel magic does so as if a level 20 caster). Not the case?

And if so, is there really a point in buffs at that point? If not, what do you do with your divine caster?

buffs are still useful, you just need to cast spell immunity abjuration on your mage and have your mage soak up the remove/dispel magics, if you are playing the unmodded game, there is only around a handful of bosses/enemies the will use remove magic and they only use it once, so if they hit your SI abjuration mage, you should be good to go

Permidion_Stark

Since you liked the staves argument I would go with that. It feels like an unlikely weapon for a Cavalier but then I always think of paladins as strictly sword and boards types.

Kneller

sarevok57 said:

Kneller said:

sarevok57 said:

...because all spells cap out at level 20 in the bg series ) in SoA it may be helpful for that single class high level casting, but once you hit ToB most bosses are level 30 and will never fail at dispelling your stuff regardless of your level, so useful in SoA, useless in ToB

I knew about the level 20 cap on spells in terms of effect, but I thought that dispel was something different, or capped as well (so a level 30 boss casting dispel magic does so as if a level 20 caster). Not the case?

And if so, is there really a point in buffs at that point? If not, what do you do with your divine caster?

buffs are still useful, you just need to cast spell immunity abjuration on your mage and have your mage soak up the remove/dispel magics, if you are playing the unmodded game, there is only around a handful of bosses/enemies the will use remove magic and they only use it once, so if they hit your SI abjuration mage, you should be good to go

I always thought it was an AoE spell, so even if (for example) my SI:Abj. mage is protected, it would still hit all allies/mobs in a 30ft radius or whatever. Are you saying that if an AoE spell is blocked by a specific character target, then the whole DM is wasted?

sarevok57

remove magic is an area effect spell, that is why you have to have your mage soak up the remove magic spell by going into it alone while keeping the rest of your party out of harms way but luckily a mage can learn protection from energy, stoneskin, mirror image, and protection from magical weapons to kind of have that "couple round invulnerability" which should give you enough time to go in with mage alone, soak up that remove magic, and then bring your mage back to your fully buffed team

pretty much anytime when an enemy in ToB is going to use remove magic, this tactic should work everytime ( they usually give you ample space when you enter an area before you meet up with the big bad nasty )

also note, this is for the unmodded game, so if you have SCS or some other mods installed, then sometimes this tactic could be a bit trickier to implement based on how modders made their spell casters

Kneller

Ok, that's what I figured regarding AoE. I had thought of sending in fodder to get mages to burn through their spells, but I was thinking of summons, skels, etc. I figured if the party is far enough away and I send in summons one at a time, that could help the mages burn through all their good stuff. Then I can rush in and clean up.

I had never thought of sending in the mage solo to soak magic, though. I always figured that would possibly be suicide, even with protections.

sarevok57

i suppose summons could do the job as well, it's been so long since i've used summons for higher level fights usually when i start hitting level 7 mage spells i coincedently never use summons again ( except for the demogorgon battle ) haha

borntodie

Uh buffs are incredibly useful in the unmodded game (especially improved haste) and they are hardly ever dispelled.

Sending my mage ahead with anti-dispell magic is something I would not recommend. The only monsters I recall that tended to cast dispell magic and strip my buffs have been dragons.. Not a monster that you want to have your mage go toe to toe with on his own.

Using summons is a good idea in many situations, though. Even at higher level. Mordy sword is great against mindflayers and generally an amazing meat shield; Deva/planetar are great tanks as well as clerical casters; Simulacrum is crazy good.

Durmir46

Voted 1h because of flexibility. 2h will somewhat limit you in your choices, which is never a good idea. Plenty of great 1h for cav all along the game

butteredsoul

Someone should have staves. I have Dorn set up with 6 right now. The elemental staves that can auto kill on hit are pretty fun. So if not Jaheira, go Pally.