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Coordinating weapons for my Canon party run

So, I'm not so concerned with BG1 as I am with BG2. The core party (minus NPCs for quests is going to be;

Minsc: on Flails and Axes, will probably spend a good deal of time doing the FoA/DoE combo.
Jah: I see her as a 2H weapon fighter (Staves and Spears) with a sling when ranged is needed.
PC: Cleric/Thief, also doing staves and slings, will probably build towards hammers/maces from here
Yoshi: On katanas and bows, building towards a sudden but inevitable betrayal.

I'm seeing the staff competition as a problem. I've never had that problem before, but then again, I've never played a Cleric/Thief. Jah should have the "best staff" as she is primarily a meleer, and mostly using staves (just using spears for a stint with Impaler). Then again, my C/T should have the "best staff" for backstabbing.

The only solution I've come up with is to "pass" weapons to each other. So, I'll have something like the staff of the ram for a backstab, once that happens, I "throw" it over to Jah who is charging in, then switch over the a one-hander and shield. My other thought is to just build her in a different direction, but that staff is the best weapon for druids and I really see her with a staff or spear (largely due to her BG1 portrait). Any other ideas?

JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 3,031
    I like Gnasher and a shield with Jaheira normally. Club of Detonation could be a good ToB option for later too. She can use the Dragon Shield, Batalista's Passport and Helmet of Defense to be immune to the fireballs. Damn, now I'm thinking she'd be a worthy mate for the Cavalier I've been developing. It'd be pretty easy to get him immune to fire as well with his built-in immunity. I could send the pyromaniacs into melee and bombard the enemy with all kinds of flaming death!

    AerakarJuliusBorisov
  • borntodieborntodie Member Posts: 125
    For Jaheira I like blackblood + Belm.

    gorgonzolaAerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    about jaheira i agree with @borntodie, much more effective.

    Minsc: on Flails and Axes is fine, but don't forget that he has 2 pips in 2h swords and a +3 one makes him immune to some mind control spells, really useful. i would chose mace instead of axe as someone must weld the anti undead one. axes later when you upgrade the tob vorpal one, if you don't want to use the silver sword and GWW.

    "PC: Cleric/Thief, also doing staves and slings, will probably build towards hammers/maces from here"
    when the C/T has UAI he can use the SoTM for dispelling and to run away after he backstabs. and he can use the specialized anti elemental ones.
    i don't see him using hammers, the really interesting one is the one that gives 25 STR, thing that can be easily done by charname with spells so redundant. as a cleric can buff himself so well i see also charname as primarily a meleer, after the initial backstab. he can have the thaco of a fighter of the same level, +2hp for each clerical level, a long lasting kai, str and dex over the top, he can use some of the mage protection scrolls for the hardest battles (there are enough stoneskin pfmw and mantle line scrolls for that in the game) i don't see a reason to leave him in the back unless he has something specific to do there in a particular situation.

    probably i see crom as the off hand weapon of minsk that uses in the main hand FoA or AoU depending if slowing the enemy or a vorpal effect is needed.

    charname is a thief so joshi is somehow redundant, even if he can let your c/t chose at the beginning some skills more interesting than opening locks and detecting traps.
    but if you want to use him for RP is fine and i would chose the very same weapons as you.

    Aerakar
  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 416
    edited September 11
    Balrog99 said:

    Club of Detonation could be a good ToB option for later too.

    That thought crossed my mind. However, and I figure I can make her immune to fire, but I don't think I can make everyone immune to fire on the regular, so that isn't a party friendly weapon.

    about jaheira i agree with @borntodie, much more effective.

    Minsc: on Flails and Axes is fine, but don't forget that he has 2 pips in 2h swords and a +3 one makes him immune to some mind control spells, really useful. i would chose mace instead of axe as someone must weld the anti undead one. axes later when you upgrade the tob vorpal one, if you don't want to use the silver sword and GWW.

    I usually Keeper NPC proficiencies, so Minsc trades his starting pips in for axes and flails (and Jah moves her club pips to staves). Don't get me wrong, Lilarcor is my most favorite weapon in the game, but he's probably better off as a DWer. The Silver Sword is great, but the (later) Axe of the Unyielding does the same and more, while also working with a DW build.''
    borntodie said:

    For Jaheira I like blackblood + Belm.

    I'm not seeing her as a DWer for this concept. Especially if I use her on staves in BG1 (no good clubs in classic), its going to take 7 pips to get her to max out 2WF, clubs, and scimitars. I could see maximizing her tankitude, taking a 1h weapon and shield, but I'm underwhelmed by the (particularly end game) one handed weapons for druids. I figure there's:

    A dagger with low base damage that has a very slim chance of extra elemental damage and might turn her invisible (not very useful for a tank)
    A Scimitar with extra cold damage, that can fight on it's own once a day and (once a day) can make one attack at +10 to hit (but by the time you get it, THAC0 isn't an issue)
    A club that can do respectable additional fire damage but also my immolate my party in a fireball in a game where enemies generally have better fire resistance than we do.

    And while there are a couple of good clubs leading up to the club of detonation, there are much better 2h weapons (Elemental Staves in the right context, staff of the woodlands, impaler, Ixil's Nail, etc.).

    charname is a thief so joshi is somehow redundant, even if he can let your c/t chose at the beginning some skills more interesting than opening locks and detecting traps. but if you want to use him for RP is fine and i would chose the very same weapons as you.

    Yeah, I basically just keep him for RP and banter. Though, I might leave him behind when I head to spellhold just because he is so redundant and we probably will have rp'd enough at that point.

  • borntodieborntodie Member Posts: 125
    edited September 11
    @Kneller

    If you like spears and staves for Jaheira, I would just go with that.
    Kneller said:


    The only solution I've come up with is to "pass" weapons to each other. So, I'll have something like the staff of the ram for a backstab, once that happens, I "throw" it over to Jah who is charging in

    .. Any other ideas?

    If I were you, I would simply let Jaheira use Ixil's Spike in the endgame, it is a fine weapon. Swapping weapons sounds like a lot of unfun micromanagement. But I mean, it's your game.

    ThacoBellAerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    also i keeper often npcs proficiences. but for minsk, that is a ranger with 2 free pips in dw, there is plenty of pips to let him specialize in many weapons. at level cap he has 15 pips to use, 17 if you factor in the 2 free in dw, and the axe is only available late tob. at the very end he can be specialized in 7 different weapons and have the 3 pips in dw.

    about jaheira if you see her with staves or impaler/ixis nail nothing wrong.
    in my experimentation (bg2 and tob as i have little experience about bg1) i always found that while dw she is much more effective. probably in soa the best build is to have her welding firetooth dagger and belm, firetooth used in mlee (ee only and only main hand) is a "hidden" bastard sword with elemental damage and +1 apr, and you can pickpocket the other +1 dagger, that lacks only of elemental damage, right at the beginning of soa.
    at the moment that you find enemies that need more enchantment in the weapon you have also enough pips for a weapon that can hit them.
    a jaheira that welds a bastard sword and a scimitar for 5 apr way before she reach lev 13 fighter makes her op for most of soa.
    if you want to use staves in bg1 i would probably drop the pips in club as firetooth and before the boomerang dagger are better main hand weapons then blackblood. and are viable for most of the tob battles, impaler and ram are the perfect weapons when more than +2 enchantment is needed or if you are using GWW.

  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 416

    ... best build is to have her welding firetooth dagger and belm, .

    All together, I find daggers the most tempting. There's the dagger of venom, werebane, and longtooth in BG1 and the Firetooth, Boomerang Dagger, and Pixie Prick for the (earlier) parts of BG2. Even if I switch up her starting pips to Staff and Dagger (using throwing daggers for ranged to start), it's still 15 levels (5 pips) to max out scimitars and DW or 12 levels just to take the penalty off the main weapon.

    Also, daggers look absurd with a large shield. Like, really really dumb.

    Aerakar
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,683
    edited September 12
    There are plenty of staves in the game to go around, and useful at every point in the game. It might be one of the most common magical weapon types. I don't remember all the different usabilities, but
    - Staff of Curing
    - Staff of Air (moar summons!)
    - Staff of Fire (ditto)
    - Staff of Earth (ditto)
    - Cleric's Staff
    - Martial Staff
    - Staff of Rynn
    - Staff of the Ram
    EDIT: oopsy, forgot 3 of the best:
    - Staff of Thunder & Lightning
    - Staff of Power
    - Staff of the Magi (w/ UAI)

    I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Spears aren't as great or as plentiful, but they give you more backup options and a different damage type for the rare enemies resistant to blunt.

    Play it how you see the character. You really don't need to "optimize" that much in these games...

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    gorgonzolaAerakarSkatan
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    @subtledoctor
    probably the most important staff you forgot to mention is the Staff of Command, domination without a save, almost nothing in the game is immune to it. very situational but really powerful, you can even use it to dominate one of the mel's helpers in the ascension final battle...

    ThacoBellAerakar
  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 416
    Staff of Command has no save? I always presumed it worked like the spell. It's definitely something to keep on hand for the special effect, but I wouldn't fight with it. It's just a +2 quarterstaff otherwise.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    that is true, is strong for the spell it allows to cast, but is not a special weapon fighting.

  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 102
    edited September 13
  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 416
    Sorry, I should have added, I will take Imoen back after Spellhold (and my only arcane caster), and then Sarevok when I get him.

  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 102
    Sounds good. I like your idea of staves for your main. In my current run, Dorn has been the staff-master (hey... no snickers) and it has been really fun. It would be even more fun with a CHARNAME like yours who, with UAI, can utilize class restricted ones like Staff of the Magi or Staff of the Woodlands. So many staffs are save-or-die for various creatures.

    I like all three non-staff ideas for Jaheira (sword and board, dual, spear). As @gorgonzola pointed out about Minsc, she too will have lots of PIPs for a variety of weapons.

    For Sarevok I think it's standard to go 2HS and Halberds. Ravager FTW! Immy go Gesen?

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,533
    If you want to avoid cheating by changing her pips, I tend to use her with the staff mace +2 in early SoA. Though I tend to 'cheat' by stealing/selling to gain a lot of gold early so I can also buy her the fortress shield. With the full platemail from the fight in the inn (waukeen's promenade), jaheira is almost fully equipped mere minutes after you exit Chateau Irenicus. I do this ASAP, long before I go for the blackblood or Belm route. Personally I'd rather have her with +4/+7 AC using her shield slot vs +2-4 damage on 2 APR using a twohander. The staff mace is also a "hidden bastard sword" with it's base 2D4 damage +2.

    Firetooth is not so early aquired (I rarely go there until I completed all outside areas first, but YMMW), but the boomerang dagger +2 works in the same way and can be found in the docks whenever you want it. I tend to get it before Belm and/or Blackblood.

    If you go twohanders; the staff of Rynn +4 is purchaseble and the cleric staff +3 early aquired as well so that two characters can equip staffs with high base enchantment levels.

    I never go DW with Jaheira, I don't see the point. By the time she get's a good DW setup she can GWW with one weapon instead. I'm just way, way to lazy to bother IH all for 10 APR and then go down the crit-hit HLA. GWW get's the job done anyways and hardiness keeps you alive. So my standard setup for her is;

    Early; staffmace +2, sling on alternative, fortress shield. Higher enchantment staff in inventory if needed (cleric's, Rynn)
    Mid; Blackblood/belm (depends on my mood and if I have ie a charname who use scimis, like a blade or swashie), sling of everard or other sling depending on other chars
    Late; Well, tbh I pretty much always quit before ToB, but I guess scimitar +5 is the best choice or maybe dagger of the stars +5. Club of detonation I rarely/never use. Too much hassle.

    This means your C/T would use the highest enchantment 2h staff, Rynn etc, as primary weapon for backstabs and perhaps also staff of striking. Passing it back and forth seems very cumbersome. The staffmace+2 is also a good backstab weapon since you can still have a shield and it hits with a good avg base damage of 2D4 for the multiplier. Depends on your playstyle ofc. SotM for me is a late-game weapon and I often end up quitting before I even acquire it. You still need the UAI of course, as stated above.

    gorgonzola
  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 416
    I don't mind "cheating" to adjust her pips to something that fits the concept. She starts out with 2** in clubs when I get her in BG1 and (for classic) that means no enchanted weapons until BG2. Being my tank, she needs something that's going to pack a little more punch than an unenhanced d6.

    If I put her to spears, the impaler is great when you get it. But I almost feel like Ixil's Spike is a downgrade, being that by the time you get it, everyone tends to make their saves. I think she would be a beast with staff of the ram, but that will leave my C/T high and dry.

    However, I really like her with staff weapons. Her BG1 portrait really skewes my concept for her. I think if I gave her the staff of the ram, I would be really shortchanging the backstabs for my C/T. However, by the time I get it, aren't the usefulness of backstabs phasing out? I figure, I might be better off with something like the Storm Star or Crom (if I don't give it to Minsc) on the regular, just "borrowing" the staff when I need it for sneak attacks. You're right, though, the weapon passing would be a pain.

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