So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
But nothing compare to what has been done with COVID-19 and, especially, what has been done with the vaccine. In Tennessee in the last few days, the Republican-led government has now ordered that all vaccine outreach to people under the age of 18 cease. Not just COVID-19 vaccines, but ALL vaccines. Including HPV. So don't be surprised if a few thousand girls end up with cervical cancer.
The GOP has, at least tacitly, embraced the anti-vaxx movement. I guarantee all the people pushing it on TV like Tucker Carlson HAVE been vaccinated. Everyone at FOX News has. But they'll tell other people not to for money and power. The Biden Administration has done absolutely everything they can in regards to getting it in the arms of everyone possible, but that have now come up upon a large steel door that can't be breached, and that steel door was erected by right-wing media.
And there is really nothing to be done about it. Ostensibly well-meaning people have suggested that mocking people who think the vaccines magnetize you will only harden their position further. Fine, that may be true. There is also no evidence stroking their head and serving them warm milk as you tuck them into bed like 5-year olds will change their mind either. I feel like about 25% of the population would rather either a.) watch people die or b.) die themselves than admit they got Trump wrong. And for that to be true, COVID-19 can't be what it actually was. In the beginning, it couldn't really exist. When it did exist, it couldn't be worse than the flu. And when it turned out it was worse, the solution (the vaccine, which they will readily heap praise on Trump for creating while at the same time decrying it as an evil government control plot) must be worse than the problem.
In my view, what we're seeing now with an even more emboldened anti-vaxx movement is the logical conclusion of what started with the Scopes Monkey Trial. Anti-intellectualism, the inheritors of the Know Nothing movement of the 1800s, run absolutely amock into full blown idiocracy. This is a truly sad state of affairs.
Hunter's concept of culture war is interesting, but (in my humble opinion) calling it a "war" sounds too extreme. He says that he uses that term because that's what the people that he interviewed call it, saying "you know? It kind of feels like a war". But that's a very loose way of talking. There aren't any actual armies or anything that looks like an army in the culture war. It's not as if, on each side, there was a chain of command of generals, middle-ranking officers and grunts. I mean, to what extent can you call this a war? Actual wars, what Hunter calls "shooting wars" have mass casualties, and not a small part of the surviving soldiers end up with post-traumatic stress disorder, if not outright mental illness, which can itself become a factor that drives many of those people to homelessness. So, I wouldn't describe the culture war as a "war". I'd prefer to call it a conflict, or a divide, or something else.
Hunter's concept of culture war is interesting, but (in my humble opinion) calling it a "war" sounds too extreme. He says that he uses that term because that's what the people that he interviewed call it, saying "you know? It kind of feels like a war". But that's a very loose way of talking. There aren't any actual armies or anything that looks like an army in the culture war. It's not as if, on each side, there was a chain of command of generals, middle-ranking officers and grunts. I mean, to what extent can you call this a war? Actual wars, what Hunter calls "shooting wars" have mass casualties, and not a small part of the surviving soldiers end up with post-traumatic stress disorder, if not outright mental illness, which can itself become a factor that drives many of those people to homelessness. So, I wouldn't describe the culture war as a "war". I'd prefer to call it a conflict, or a divide, or something else.
Calling it a 'war' sells more books than calling it a 'divide'.
(or a police action) ?
So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
But nothing compare to what has been done with COVID-19 and, especially, what has been done with the vaccine. In Tennessee in the last few days, the Republican-led government has now ordered that all vaccine outreach to people under the age of 18 cease. Not just COVID-19 vaccines, but ALL vaccines. Including HPV. So don't be surprised if a few thousand girls end up with cervical cancer.
The GOP has, at least tacitly, embraced the anti-vaxx movement. I guarantee all the people pushing it on TV like Tucker Carlson HAVE been vaccinated. Everyone at FOX News has. But they'll tell other people not to for money and power. The Biden Administration has done absolutely everything they can in regards to getting it in the arms of everyone possible, but that have now come up upon a large steel door that can't be breached, and that steel door was erected by right-wing media.
And there is really nothing to be done about it. Ostensibly well-meaning people have suggested that mocking people who think the vaccines magnetize you will only harden their position further. Fine, that may be true. There is also no evidence stroking their head and serving them warm milk as you tuck them into bed like 5-year olds will change their mind either. I feel like about 25% of the population would rather either a.) watch people die or b.) die themselves than admit they got Trump wrong. And for that to be true, COVID-19 can't be what it actually was. In the beginning, it couldn't really exist. When it did exist, it couldn't be worse than the flu. And when it turned out it was worse, the solution (the vaccine, which they will readily heap praise on Trump for creating while at the same time decrying it as an evil government control plot) must be worse than the problem.
In my view, what we're seeing now with an even more emboldened anti-vaxx movement is the logical conclusion of what started with the Scopes Monkey Trial. Anti-intellectualism, the inheritors of the Know Nothing movement of the 1800s, run absolutely amock into full blown idiocracy. This is a truly sad state of affairs.
I agree totally. The new GOP has become a religion in my opinion. I keep waiting for my team to 'wake up' but most of my family think I'm the one who's asleep...
So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
But nothing compare to what has been done with COVID-19 and, especially, what has been done with the vaccine. In Tennessee in the last few days, the Republican-led government has now ordered that all vaccine outreach to people under the age of 18 cease. Not just COVID-19 vaccines, but ALL vaccines. Including HPV. So don't be surprised if a few thousand girls end up with cervical cancer.
The GOP has, at least tacitly, embraced the anti-vaxx movement. I guarantee all the people pushing it on TV like Tucker Carlson HAVE been vaccinated. Everyone at FOX News has. But they'll tell other people not to for money and power. The Biden Administration has done absolutely everything they can in regards to getting it in the arms of everyone possible, but that have now come up upon a large steel door that can't be breached, and that steel door was erected by right-wing media.
And there is really nothing to be done about it. Ostensibly well-meaning people have suggested that mocking people who think the vaccines magnetize you will only harden their position further. Fine, that may be true. There is also no evidence stroking their head and serving them warm milk as you tuck them into bed like 5-year olds will change their mind either. I feel like about 25% of the population would rather either a.) watch people die or b.) die themselves than admit they got Trump wrong. And for that to be true, COVID-19 can't be what it actually was. In the beginning, it couldn't really exist. When it did exist, it couldn't be worse than the flu. And when it turned out it was worse, the solution (the vaccine, which they will readily heap praise on Trump for creating while at the same time decrying it as an evil government control plot) must be worse than the problem.
In my view, what we're seeing now with an even more emboldened anti-vaxx movement is the logical conclusion of what started with the Scopes Monkey Trial. Anti-intellectualism, the inheritors of the Know Nothing movement of the 1800s, run absolutely amock into full blown idiocracy. This is a truly sad state of affairs.
I agree totally. The new GOP has become a religion in my opinion. I keep waiting for my team to 'wake up' but most of my family think I'm the one who's asleep...
What gets me is people are still talking and debating about experimental treatments when there is a vaccine readily available. It's like going back and forth between the sink with a glass of water to try put out a fire when there is a fire extinguisher sitting at your feet. The "Trump created a vaccine in record time that I will not take under any circumstances" is truly one of the most bizarre, pretzel-tying political takes I've ever seen. It suggests a belief in nothing at all other than what is useful to trot out for immediate expediency.
So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
Yeah, and it's always worth adding the perspective of other countries' politics. Certainly there are far-right agitators in other countries with similar views to US Republicans, but the denial on COVID and the environment are not mainstream issues, generally speaking.
You can still build a political coalition in countries not too dissimilar to the US with opposition to taxes, skepticism of government action, and even conservative on a number of cultural issue or abortion. I know the UK Tories don't necessarily hit all these points, but they've been a monumentally successful (electorally) center-right party, in a country that isn't radically different than the US. Republicans have actually been something of a failure at persuading popular opinion in contrast, going over the past 30 years. And you can isolate their failure to adopt realistic positions on the few issues where it's easy to know the right answer as the culprit, imo.
So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
But nothing compare to what has been done with COVID-19 and, especially, what has been done with the vaccine. In Tennessee in the last few days, the Republican-led government has now ordered that all vaccine outreach to people under the age of 18 cease. Not just COVID-19 vaccines, but ALL vaccines. Including HPV. So don't be surprised if a few thousand girls end up with cervical cancer.
The GOP has, at least tacitly, embraced the anti-vaxx movement. I guarantee all the people pushing it on TV like Tucker Carlson HAVE been vaccinated. Everyone at FOX News has. But they'll tell other people not to for money and power. The Biden Administration has done absolutely everything they can in regards to getting it in the arms of everyone possible, but that have now come up upon a large steel door that can't be breached, and that steel door was erected by right-wing media.
And there is really nothing to be done about it. Ostensibly well-meaning people have suggested that mocking people who think the vaccines magnetize you will only harden their position further. Fine, that may be true. There is also no evidence stroking their head and serving them warm milk as you tuck them into bed like 5-year olds will change their mind either. I feel like about 25% of the population would rather either a.) watch people die or b.) die themselves than admit they got Trump wrong. And for that to be true, COVID-19 can't be what it actually was. In the beginning, it couldn't really exist. When it did exist, it couldn't be worse than the flu. And when it turned out it was worse, the solution (the vaccine, which they will readily heap praise on Trump for creating while at the same time decrying it as an evil government control plot) must be worse than the problem.
In my view, what we're seeing now with an even more emboldened anti-vaxx movement is the logical conclusion of what started with the Scopes Monkey Trial. Anti-intellectualism, the inheritors of the Know Nothing movement of the 1800s, run absolutely amock into full blown idiocracy. This is a truly sad state of affairs.
I agree totally. The new GOP has become a religion in my opinion. I keep waiting for my team to 'wake up' but most of my family think I'm the one who's asleep...
What gets me is people are still talking and debating about experimental treatments when there is a vaccine readily available. It's like going back and forth between the sink with a glass of water to try put out a fire when there is a fire extinguisher sitting at your feet. The "Trump created a vaccine in record time that I will not take under any circumstances" is truly one of the most bizarre, pretzel-tying political takes I've ever seen. It suggests a belief in nothing at all other than what is useful to trot out for immediate expediency.
The worst part is it has people second-guessing all vaccines, not just Covid. It's absolutely ludicrous. For the record though, it isn't only the far-right that are anti-vaxxers. There are plenty of New-Age nutjobs on the left that are just as crazy about this. This is my problem when politics becomes religion. I used to think it was only the far-left tree-huggers/vegans/crystal power Mother Earth environmentalists that made politics a religion. I stand corrected. I was totally ignoring the beam in my own eye...
So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
But nothing compare to what has been done with COVID-19 and, especially, what has been done with the vaccine. In Tennessee in the last few days, the Republican-led government has now ordered that all vaccine outreach to people under the age of 18 cease. Not just COVID-19 vaccines, but ALL vaccines. Including HPV. So don't be surprised if a few thousand girls end up with cervical cancer.
The GOP has, at least tacitly, embraced the anti-vaxx movement. I guarantee all the people pushing it on TV like Tucker Carlson HAVE been vaccinated. Everyone at FOX News has. But they'll tell other people not to for money and power. The Biden Administration has done absolutely everything they can in regards to getting it in the arms of everyone possible, but that have now come up upon a large steel door that can't be breached, and that steel door was erected by right-wing media.
And there is really nothing to be done about it. Ostensibly well-meaning people have suggested that mocking people who think the vaccines magnetize you will only harden their position further. Fine, that may be true. There is also no evidence stroking their head and serving them warm milk as you tuck them into bed like 5-year olds will change their mind either. I feel like about 25% of the population would rather either a.) watch people die or b.) die themselves than admit they got Trump wrong. And for that to be true, COVID-19 can't be what it actually was. In the beginning, it couldn't really exist. When it did exist, it couldn't be worse than the flu. And when it turned out it was worse, the solution (the vaccine, which they will readily heap praise on Trump for creating while at the same time decrying it as an evil government control plot) must be worse than the problem.
In my view, what we're seeing now with an even more emboldened anti-vaxx movement is the logical conclusion of what started with the Scopes Monkey Trial. Anti-intellectualism, the inheritors of the Know Nothing movement of the 1800s, run absolutely amock into full blown idiocracy. This is a truly sad state of affairs.
I agree totally. The new GOP has become a religion in my opinion. I keep waiting for my team to 'wake up' but most of my family think I'm the one who's asleep...
What gets me is people are still talking and debating about experimental treatments when there is a vaccine readily available. It's like going back and forth between the sink with a glass of water to try put out a fire when there is a fire extinguisher sitting at your feet. The "Trump created a vaccine in record time that I will not take under any circumstances" is truly one of the most bizarre, pretzel-tying political takes I've ever seen. It suggests a belief in nothing at all other than what is useful to trot out for immediate expediency.
The worst part is it has people second-guessing all vaccines, not just Covid. It's absolutely ludicrous. For the record though, it isn't only the far-right that are anti-vaxxers. There are plenty of New-Age nutjobs on the left that are just as crazy about this. This is my problem when politics becomes religion. I used to think it was only the far-left tree-huggers/vegans/crystal power Mother Earth environmentalists that made politics a religion. I stand corrected. I was totally ignoring the beam in my own eye...
I mean, are we looking at a resurgence of polio or smallpox in 20 years if this trend continues?? The thing is, compulsory vaccination for children entering school has been a thing my entire life, and long before that, and, in a meta sense, NO ONE had an issue with it (similar to common sense environmental preservation).
My hypothesis is that the only reason completely mundane non-issues have become political flashpoints can only be the result of one thing, which is relentless, unceasing propaganda, whether from the radio, TV, or Facebook. People didn't come up with these ideas on their own.
My initial read on anti-vaxxers was also that they were a 50/50 split (after all, the absolute worst disinformation spreader about the supposed autism link is RFK Jr.), but they've now been dwarved by folks who certainly CLAIM to be against a vaccine out of medical skepticism, but are actually against it because certain other people want them to take it.
So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
But nothing compare to what has been done with COVID-19 and, especially, what has been done with the vaccine. In Tennessee in the last few days, the Republican-led government has now ordered that all vaccine outreach to people under the age of 18 cease. Not just COVID-19 vaccines, but ALL vaccines. Including HPV. So don't be surprised if a few thousand girls end up with cervical cancer.
The GOP has, at least tacitly, embraced the anti-vaxx movement. I guarantee all the people pushing it on TV like Tucker Carlson HAVE been vaccinated. Everyone at FOX News has. But they'll tell other people not to for money and power. The Biden Administration has done absolutely everything they can in regards to getting it in the arms of everyone possible, but that have now come up upon a large steel door that can't be breached, and that steel door was erected by right-wing media.
And there is really nothing to be done about it. Ostensibly well-meaning people have suggested that mocking people who think the vaccines magnetize you will only harden their position further. Fine, that may be true. There is also no evidence stroking their head and serving them warm milk as you tuck them into bed like 5-year olds will change their mind either. I feel like about 25% of the population would rather either a.) watch people die or b.) die themselves than admit they got Trump wrong. And for that to be true, COVID-19 can't be what it actually was. In the beginning, it couldn't really exist. When it did exist, it couldn't be worse than the flu. And when it turned out it was worse, the solution (the vaccine, which they will readily heap praise on Trump for creating while at the same time decrying it as an evil government control plot) must be worse than the problem.
In my view, what we're seeing now with an even more emboldened anti-vaxx movement is the logical conclusion of what started with the Scopes Monkey Trial. Anti-intellectualism, the inheritors of the Know Nothing movement of the 1800s, run absolutely amock into full blown idiocracy. This is a truly sad state of affairs.
I agree totally. The new GOP has become a religion in my opinion. I keep waiting for my team to 'wake up' but most of my family think I'm the one who's asleep...
What gets me is people are still talking and debating about experimental treatments when there is a vaccine readily available. It's like going back and forth between the sink with a glass of water to try put out a fire when there is a fire extinguisher sitting at your feet. The "Trump created a vaccine in record time that I will not take under any circumstances" is truly one of the most bizarre, pretzel-tying political takes I've ever seen. It suggests a belief in nothing at all other than what is useful to trot out for immediate expediency.
The worst part is it has people second-guessing all vaccines, not just Covid. It's absolutely ludicrous. For the record though, it isn't only the far-right that are anti-vaxxers. There are plenty of New-Age nutjobs on the left that are just as crazy about this. This is my problem when politics becomes religion. I used to think it was only the far-left tree-huggers/vegans/crystal power Mother Earth environmentalists that made politics a religion. I stand corrected. I was totally ignoring the beam in my own eye...
I mean, are we looking at a resurgence of polio or smallpox in 20 years if this trend continues?? The thing is, compulsory vaccination for children entering school has been a thing my entire life, and long before that, and, in a meta sense, NO ONE had an issue with it (similar to common sense environmental preservation).
My hypothesis is that the only reason completely mundane non-issues have become political flashpoints can only be the result of one thing, which is relentless, unceasing propaganda, whether from the radio, TV, or Facebook. People didn't come up with these ideas on their own.
My initial read on anti-vaxxers was also that they were a 50/50 split (after all, the absolute worst disinformation spreader about the supposed autism link is RFK Jr.), but they've now been dwarved by folks who certainly CLAIM to be against a vaccine out of medical skepticism, but are actually against it because certain other people want them to take it.
I've still got the scar on my left shoulder from the smallpox vaccine that I was 'forced' to take against my 'will'. Thank God above for that because I may be alive now because of it. WTF happened between 1974 and the present that changed all of this?
So, the Arizona "audit" is still going on, and if you read between the lines here, it seems that even by their non-existent standards, they didn't find jack-shit, and now want to go door to door asking people how they voted. I'd say the feds should put a stop to this now, but that's likely exactly what they want. So this farce will continue in perpetuity:
So, the Arizona "audit" is still going on, and if you read between the lines here, it seems that even by their non-existent standards, they didn't find jack-shit, and now want to go door to door asking people how they voted. I'd say the feds should put a stop to this now, but that's likely exactly what they want. So this farce will continue in perpetuity:
A topic that should be non-partisan. How the Hell did a scumbag like Larry Nassar get away with molesting so many pretty high-profile athletes? Total negligence...
This article basically sums up what I was saying yesterday. Fact-checking misinformation about vaccines isn't the solution, because the people spreading it don't even necessarily believe what they're consuming and sharing. Being anti-vaxx is now a status symbol of political identity, and it's not a shield that will be breached by showing statistics or studies:
Deep down, I think people are generally fine with vaccines. I DEFINITELY don't think they're actively scared of them to the degree it would be necessary to account for the percentages. This is about emotion, not public health or data.
It's a tough call, and an interesting debate. Obviously there are people across the spectrum, from bald-faced liars like Tucker Carlson that have been vaccinated but are happy to spread disinformation to, on the other end, people who have been sincerely mislead. But in this latter group, the problem really is an atrophy of an ability to think straight. We're now entering several decades of a certain subset just completely tuning out any source of information except for The Party and its loyal media outlets.
I honestly don't know how you solve it. Telling people that they're believing lies is always going to sound condescending. And this subset has complete contempt for sources of information that fall outside their ideological lines. I'm not sure there is a solution. The only realistic solution is that this group is a minority of the population. So you have to beat them at the ballot box.
It's really a striking and consternating phenomenon to see when you live abroad as I do, but grew up in the US and are still passionate about following politics there. The rest of the world really doesn't behave this way. Canada is surpassing the US in vaccination rates despite not having domestic production!
It starts with education when you are not yet biased. But bias grows fast, so it is better to do it as early as possible.
I always thought that we needed some health education in school where you learn about vaccinations, healthy diet, healthy exercise, sex education, etcetera. It can easily be a normal course, and otherwise just sacrifice some parts of other courses, like history or language.
It's a tough call, and an interesting debate. Obviously there are people across the spectrum, from bald-faced liars like Tucker Carlson that have been vaccinated but are happy to spread disinformation to, on the other end, people who have been sincerely mislead. But in this latter group, the problem really is an atrophy of an ability to think straight. We're now entering several decades of a certain subset just completely tuning out any source of information except for The Party and its loyal media outlets.
I honestly don't know how you solve it. Telling people that they're believing lies is always going to sound condescending. And this subset has complete contempt for sources of information that fall outside their ideological lines. I'm not sure there is a solution. The only realistic solution is that this group is a minority of the population. So you have to beat them at the ballot box.
It's really a striking and consternating phenomenon to see when you live abroad as I do, but grew up in the US and are still passionate about following politics there. The rest of the world really doesn't behave this way. Canada is surpassing the US in vaccination rates despite not having domestic production!
Well, this is what is really obscene about it. The rest of the world is begging to have the access we have, and instead we're stuck at a standstill because of this bullshit.
Carlson's answer when asked by a reporter doing a story about him if he's vaccinated, his fake outrage, was so repulsive, I really don't even have words. He knows he's been vaccinated, he knows the reporter knows he's vaccinated. But he CAN'T admit it because he knows he is playing his audience for fools.
There is no answer. Being condescending doesn't work, but neither does the opposite approach. It's like the rest of us are just supposed to magically know what lyrics they want to hear, and what key they want them sung in, and if it isn't note perfect, it's OUR fault for not understanding them. I've been arguing for years here that only those on the left (or the sensible middle) are assumed to have agency in this country, and that we just have to accept the fact that this 30% is gonna do what they're gonna do.
And this is what we get for catering to that mindset. Even well-meaning liberals this evening are hyping a National Review piece tonight about how we need to be nicer to the anti-vaxx crowd to bring them into the tent. If people are big enough to do that, more power to them. I just can't with this anymore. I'll try not to actively insult them, but I'm not playing this stupid game of guessing what people want to hear when they don't even know themselves.
It starts with education when you are not yet biased. But bias grows fast, so it is better to do it as early as possible.
I always thought that we needed some health education in school where you learn about vaccinations, healthy diet, healthy exercise, sex education, etcetera. It can easily be a normal course, and otherwise just sacrifice some parts of other courses, like history or language.
I wish this was the answer, but I'm not so sure anymore. Plenty of these skeptics are educated, went to college, etc. In fact, much of the anti-vax theories, when you dig into them, require a certain degree of formal education to formulate. Many of the people responsible for spreading the disinformation on social media tend to be educated as well, as that's what heavy social media users tend to be. I'd actually say this applies to a great deal of the disinformation out there -- including election fraud theories.
If anything, I think it's that people have discarded much of what they had previously learned. In favor of a kind of Orwellian rejection of everything except one, ideologically-based, authority. As I said above, I think the word atrophy applies quite strongly here. People have chosen to discard their educations. And given that schools and universities are among the demonized, untrustworthy institutions, I'm just not sure this works. It's exasperating.
FWIW, I had such a class in my high school. I can't remember if it touched on vaccinations, but the other things you list, yes. I'm sure it's pretty common, even if not everywhere.
I had an interaction with someone about this subject on Twitter last night, and I honestly felt like I was talking to a sociopath. His verbatim quote (in the context of talking about "leverage", as if this is some sort of contract negotiation) was that "if we don't care if we die, what makes you think we give a fuck if you die??" Can't argue with that I guess. Also absolutely no point in engaging with that mentality or trying to coddle it into submission. I guess I at least respect the honesty. I've been convinced I'm surrounded by horrible people for some time, but these last 18 months have forever destroyed my faith in fellow human beings.
A bit late to the party - but a big similarity between the US and UK systems is that they are amongst the few countries in the world with systems under which a party can substantially fail to win the support of half the population (ie the tories governing when about 60pc of the country didn't vote for them and a very substantial pc loath them) and still win overwhelming power to govern - funny how right wing parties thrive in these two
I'm fairly convinced at this point the solution to the vaccine problem is not unlike what we decided to do with smoking about 20 years ago. We determined people smoking around others in public was detrimental to the health of others around you (most specifically anywhere indoors), and we forced smokers outside into segregated areas where they could engage in their habit without the potential to hurts others. Smoking rates plummeted due to a combination of inconvenience and shame associated with it.
We obviously can't force people to take the vaccine. What we can (and probably MUST) do to get another 10-15% to give in is make certain aspects of their life they take for granted and enjoy inconvenient until they do so. And this goes all the way to employment. Because I literally saw The Blaze publish an article two days ago whining about how St. Jude's is going to terminate employees who don't get vaccinated. St. Jude's is a frickin' CHILDREN'S CANCER HOSPITAL!!!! Are these people even vaguely aware of what chemotherapy does to the blood cells in the body that are normally used to fight off infection?? St Jude's is 110% in the right here, and no person with any sort of moral compass would argue otherwise. And elements or varying degrees of this need to be emulated.
The only thing that will change this behavior is negative consequences. I've also seen multiple anecdotal stories of people who begged and pleaded with their parents to get the vaccine, to no avail. What eventually worked?? Putting their foot down and telling them they were never seeing their grandkids again in person until they did so. In other words, what is commonly referred to as tough love. You don't have to it. But that doesn't mean you should be able to make that choice without social repercussions.
A - the title of the article is pretty misleading/clickbaity. They say pretty clearly they have a good idea why the polls were off in 2020, they're just not sure how to correct for it yet.
B - The polls were extremely (extremely) accurate in 2018. Midterms are often harder (historically) to poll than presidential elections and despite that, 2018 was a pretty good year for polling. I think it would be a mistake to just declare the science of polling dead and stop believing any of it because of 2020 which had a combined effect of having Trump on the ballot (still trying to figure out what exactly that means) + a pandemic.
A - the title of the article is pretty misleading/clickbaity. They say pretty clearly they have a good idea why the polls were off in 2020, they're just not sure how to correct for it yet.
B - The polls were extremely (extremely) accurate in 2018. Midterms are often harder (historically) to poll than presidential elections and despite that, 2018 was a pretty good year for polling. I think it would be a mistake to just declare the science of polling dead and stop believing any of it because of 2020 which had a combined effect of having Trump on the ballot (still trying to figure out what exactly that means) + a pandemic.
Trump 'will' be on the ballot though (even if it's not in person his presence will be felt). That's precisely why I won't trust the polling.. Notice I only said 2022 & 2024. That was intentional. Trump might not even be a factor in '24 but time will tell. After '24 I doubt he'll still be a major driver.
I don't think there's any guarantees we can know what the 2024 election will be about right now. So I'd advise caution with making statements like that. I'm not so sure "Trumpism" even without him is all that distinct from standard Republican politics that immediately preceded his arrival anyways.
A - the title of the article is pretty misleading/clickbaity. They say pretty clearly they have a good idea why the polls were off in 2020, they're just not sure how to correct for it yet.
B - The polls were extremely (extremely) accurate in 2018. Midterms are often harder (historically) to poll than presidential elections and despite that, 2018 was a pretty good year for polling. I think it would be a mistake to just declare the science of polling dead and stop believing any of it because of 2020 which had a combined effect of having Trump on the ballot (still trying to figure out what exactly that means) + a pandemic.
Trump 'will' be on the ballot though (even if it's not in person his presence will be felt). That's precisely why I won't trust the polling.. Notice I only said 2022 & 2024. That was intentional. Trump might not even be a factor in '24 but time will tell. After '24 I doubt he'll still be a major driver.
The same thing could have been (and was) said specifically about 2018. That midterm was obviously a referendum on his presidency to that point (both sides made it that way) - and we had accurate polling.
I legitimately think there's a difference between Trump being literally on the ballot and him not being on the ballot.
A - the title of the article is pretty misleading/clickbaity. They say pretty clearly they have a good idea why the polls were off in 2020, they're just not sure how to correct for it yet.
B - The polls were extremely (extremely) accurate in 2018. Midterms are often harder (historically) to poll than presidential elections and despite that, 2018 was a pretty good year for polling. I think it would be a mistake to just declare the science of polling dead and stop believing any of it because of 2020 which had a combined effect of having Trump on the ballot (still trying to figure out what exactly that means) + a pandemic.
Trump 'will' be on the ballot though (even if it's not in person his presence will be felt). That's precisely why I won't trust the polling.. Notice I only said 2022 & 2024. That was intentional. Trump might not even be a factor in '24 but time will tell. After '24 I doubt he'll still be a major driver.
The same thing could have been (and was) said specifically about 2018. That midterm was obviously a referendum on his presidency to that point (both sides made it that way) - and we had accurate polling.
I legitimately think there's a difference between Trump being literally on the ballot and him not being on the ballot.
The article stated that state polling was equally bad, especially for Senate seats. Trump did not run for Senate as far as I can recall...
Interesting kind of experiment going on in France, where I guess they also had a sliver of vaccine holdouts. But Macron has apparently re-implemented a bunch of restrictions -- their lockdown were restrictions were tighter than the US. Except these restrictions apply to the unvaccinated. There's already been an initial large surge of vaccinations in the wake of his announcement. Macron's announcement was pretty firm and unapologetic too.
Just goes to show that the "be as nice as possible" argument that was floated by some moderate US conservatives last week may not actually be the winning approach.
Interesting kind of experiment going on in France, where I guess they also had a sliver of vaccine holdouts. But Macron has apparently re-implemented a bunch of restrictions -- their lockdown were restrictions were tighter than the US. Except these restrictions apply to the unvaccinated. There's already been an initial large surge of vaccinations in the wake of his announcement. Macron's announcement was pretty firm and unapologetic too.
Just goes to show that the "be as nice as possible" argument that was floated by some moderate US conservatives last week may not actually be the winning approach.
Yeah, it's easy to tout your 'freedoms' when there aren't any consequences (well, other than needlessly exposing yourself and others to a potentially debilitating disease, but I guess that's okey-dokey with these morons).
Comments
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2021/05/20/culture-war-politics-2021-democracy-analysis-489900
So I was talking about this with a co-worker over IMs this evening. She was working on responding to social media posts in which my company was simply letting people know where they could learn more about renewable energy, and it just devolved into a culture war battle. In the 1990s, there was literally a cartoon on Saturday morning called Captain Planet that was about taking care of the Earth. Earth Day was big deal in school. Major motion pictures had it at the center of their plot. None of this was remotely controversial. We've somehow moved about 100 steps BACKWARDS on this issue in the last 30 years.
But nothing compare to what has been done with COVID-19 and, especially, what has been done with the vaccine. In Tennessee in the last few days, the Republican-led government has now ordered that all vaccine outreach to people under the age of 18 cease. Not just COVID-19 vaccines, but ALL vaccines. Including HPV. So don't be surprised if a few thousand girls end up with cervical cancer.
The GOP has, at least tacitly, embraced the anti-vaxx movement. I guarantee all the people pushing it on TV like Tucker Carlson HAVE been vaccinated. Everyone at FOX News has. But they'll tell other people not to for money and power. The Biden Administration has done absolutely everything they can in regards to getting it in the arms of everyone possible, but that have now come up upon a large steel door that can't be breached, and that steel door was erected by right-wing media.
And there is really nothing to be done about it. Ostensibly well-meaning people have suggested that mocking people who think the vaccines magnetize you will only harden their position further. Fine, that may be true. There is also no evidence stroking their head and serving them warm milk as you tuck them into bed like 5-year olds will change their mind either. I feel like about 25% of the population would rather either a.) watch people die or b.) die themselves than admit they got Trump wrong. And for that to be true, COVID-19 can't be what it actually was. In the beginning, it couldn't really exist. When it did exist, it couldn't be worse than the flu. And when it turned out it was worse, the solution (the vaccine, which they will readily heap praise on Trump for creating while at the same time decrying it as an evil government control plot) must be worse than the problem.
In my view, what we're seeing now with an even more emboldened anti-vaxx movement is the logical conclusion of what started with the Scopes Monkey Trial. Anti-intellectualism, the inheritors of the Know Nothing movement of the 1800s, run absolutely amock into full blown idiocracy. This is a truly sad state of affairs.
Hunter's concept of culture war is interesting, but (in my humble opinion) calling it a "war" sounds too extreme. He says that he uses that term because that's what the people that he interviewed call it, saying "you know? It kind of feels like a war". But that's a very loose way of talking. There aren't any actual armies or anything that looks like an army in the culture war. It's not as if, on each side, there was a chain of command of generals, middle-ranking officers and grunts. I mean, to what extent can you call this a war? Actual wars, what Hunter calls "shooting wars" have mass casualties, and not a small part of the surviving soldiers end up with post-traumatic stress disorder, if not outright mental illness, which can itself become a factor that drives many of those people to homelessness. So, I wouldn't describe the culture war as a "war". I'd prefer to call it a conflict, or a divide, or something else.
Calling it a 'war' sells more books than calling it a 'divide'.
(or a police action) ?
I agree totally. The new GOP has become a religion in my opinion. I keep waiting for my team to 'wake up' but most of my family think I'm the one who's asleep...
What gets me is people are still talking and debating about experimental treatments when there is a vaccine readily available. It's like going back and forth between the sink with a glass of water to try put out a fire when there is a fire extinguisher sitting at your feet. The "Trump created a vaccine in record time that I will not take under any circumstances" is truly one of the most bizarre, pretzel-tying political takes I've ever seen. It suggests a belief in nothing at all other than what is useful to trot out for immediate expediency.
Yeah, and it's always worth adding the perspective of other countries' politics. Certainly there are far-right agitators in other countries with similar views to US Republicans, but the denial on COVID and the environment are not mainstream issues, generally speaking.
You can still build a political coalition in countries not too dissimilar to the US with opposition to taxes, skepticism of government action, and even conservative on a number of cultural issue or abortion. I know the UK Tories don't necessarily hit all these points, but they've been a monumentally successful (electorally) center-right party, in a country that isn't radically different than the US. Republicans have actually been something of a failure at persuading popular opinion in contrast, going over the past 30 years. And you can isolate their failure to adopt realistic positions on the few issues where it's easy to know the right answer as the culprit, imo.
The worst part is it has people second-guessing all vaccines, not just Covid. It's absolutely ludicrous. For the record though, it isn't only the far-right that are anti-vaxxers. There are plenty of New-Age nutjobs on the left that are just as crazy about this. This is my problem when politics becomes religion. I used to think it was only the far-left tree-huggers/vegans/crystal power Mother Earth environmentalists that made politics a religion. I stand corrected. I was totally ignoring the beam in my own eye...
I mean, are we looking at a resurgence of polio or smallpox in 20 years if this trend continues?? The thing is, compulsory vaccination for children entering school has been a thing my entire life, and long before that, and, in a meta sense, NO ONE had an issue with it (similar to common sense environmental preservation).
My hypothesis is that the only reason completely mundane non-issues have become political flashpoints can only be the result of one thing, which is relentless, unceasing propaganda, whether from the radio, TV, or Facebook. People didn't come up with these ideas on their own.
My initial read on anti-vaxxers was also that they were a 50/50 split (after all, the absolute worst disinformation spreader about the supposed autism link is RFK Jr.), but they've now been dwarved by folks who certainly CLAIM to be against a vaccine out of medical skepticism, but are actually against it because certain other people want them to take it.
I've still got the scar on my left shoulder from the smallpox vaccine that I was 'forced' to take against my 'will'. Thank God above for that because I may be alive now because of it. WTF happened between 1974 and the present that changed all of this?
https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/7973154002?__twitter_impression=true
Michigan shot their bullshit audit with a bazooka, even the Republicans here, so at least we won't have to endure that charade.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/politics/fbi-nassar-report-trump-page/index.html
https://www.salon.com/2021/07/16/flagging-misinformation-isnt-enough-covid-is-resurging-because-the-right-gobbles-up-lies/
Deep down, I think people are generally fine with vaccines. I DEFINITELY don't think they're actively scared of them to the degree it would be necessary to account for the percentages. This is about emotion, not public health or data.
I honestly don't know how you solve it. Telling people that they're believing lies is always going to sound condescending. And this subset has complete contempt for sources of information that fall outside their ideological lines. I'm not sure there is a solution. The only realistic solution is that this group is a minority of the population. So you have to beat them at the ballot box.
It's really a striking and consternating phenomenon to see when you live abroad as I do, but grew up in the US and are still passionate about following politics there. The rest of the world really doesn't behave this way. Canada is surpassing the US in vaccination rates despite not having domestic production!
I always thought that we needed some health education in school where you learn about vaccinations, healthy diet, healthy exercise, sex education, etcetera. It can easily be a normal course, and otherwise just sacrifice some parts of other courses, like history or language.
Well, this is what is really obscene about it. The rest of the world is begging to have the access we have, and instead we're stuck at a standstill because of this bullshit.
Carlson's answer when asked by a reporter doing a story about him if he's vaccinated, his fake outrage, was so repulsive, I really don't even have words. He knows he's been vaccinated, he knows the reporter knows he's vaccinated. But he CAN'T admit it because he knows he is playing his audience for fools.
There is no answer. Being condescending doesn't work, but neither does the opposite approach. It's like the rest of us are just supposed to magically know what lyrics they want to hear, and what key they want them sung in, and if it isn't note perfect, it's OUR fault for not understanding them. I've been arguing for years here that only those on the left (or the sensible middle) are assumed to have agency in this country, and that we just have to accept the fact that this 30% is gonna do what they're gonna do.
And this is what we get for catering to that mindset. Even well-meaning liberals this evening are hyping a National Review piece tonight about how we need to be nicer to the anti-vaxx crowd to bring them into the tent. If people are big enough to do that, more power to them. I just can't with this anymore. I'll try not to actively insult them, but I'm not playing this stupid game of guessing what people want to hear when they don't even know themselves.
I wish this was the answer, but I'm not so sure anymore. Plenty of these skeptics are educated, went to college, etc. In fact, much of the anti-vax theories, when you dig into them, require a certain degree of formal education to formulate. Many of the people responsible for spreading the disinformation on social media tend to be educated as well, as that's what heavy social media users tend to be. I'd actually say this applies to a great deal of the disinformation out there -- including election fraud theories.
If anything, I think it's that people have discarded much of what they had previously learned. In favor of a kind of Orwellian rejection of everything except one, ideologically-based, authority. As I said above, I think the word atrophy applies quite strongly here. People have chosen to discard their educations. And given that schools and universities are among the demonized, untrustworthy institutions, I'm just not sure this works. It's exasperating.
FWIW, I had such a class in my high school. I can't remember if it touched on vaccinations, but the other things you list, yes. I'm sure it's pretty common, even if not everywhere.
We obviously can't force people to take the vaccine. What we can (and probably MUST) do to get another 10-15% to give in is make certain aspects of their life they take for granted and enjoy inconvenient until they do so. And this goes all the way to employment. Because I literally saw The Blaze publish an article two days ago whining about how St. Jude's is going to terminate employees who don't get vaccinated. St. Jude's is a frickin' CHILDREN'S CANCER HOSPITAL!!!! Are these people even vaguely aware of what chemotherapy does to the blood cells in the body that are normally used to fight off infection?? St Jude's is 110% in the right here, and no person with any sort of moral compass would argue otherwise. And elements or varying degrees of this need to be emulated.
The only thing that will change this behavior is negative consequences. I've also seen multiple anecdotal stories of people who begged and pleaded with their parents to get the vaccine, to no avail. What eventually worked?? Putting their foot down and telling them they were never seeing their grandkids again in person until they did so. In other words, what is commonly referred to as tough love. You don't have to it. But that doesn't mean you should be able to make that choice without social repercussions.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/18/pollsters-2020-polls-all-wrong-500050
A - the title of the article is pretty misleading/clickbaity. They say pretty clearly they have a good idea why the polls were off in 2020, they're just not sure how to correct for it yet.
B - The polls were extremely (extremely) accurate in 2018. Midterms are often harder (historically) to poll than presidential elections and despite that, 2018 was a pretty good year for polling. I think it would be a mistake to just declare the science of polling dead and stop believing any of it because of 2020 which had a combined effect of having Trump on the ballot (still trying to figure out what exactly that means) + a pandemic.
Trump 'will' be on the ballot though (even if it's not in person his presence will be felt). That's precisely why I won't trust the polling.. Notice I only said 2022 & 2024. That was intentional. Trump might not even be a factor in '24 but time will tell. After '24 I doubt he'll still be a major driver.
The same thing could have been (and was) said specifically about 2018. That midterm was obviously a referendum on his presidency to that point (both sides made it that way) - and we had accurate polling.
I legitimately think there's a difference between Trump being literally on the ballot and him not being on the ballot.
The article stated that state polling was equally bad, especially for Senate seats. Trump did not run for Senate as far as I can recall...
Just goes to show that the "be as nice as possible" argument that was floated by some moderate US conservatives last week may not actually be the winning approach.
Yeah, it's easy to tout your 'freedoms' when there aren't any consequences (well, other than needlessly exposing yourself and others to a potentially debilitating disease, but I guess that's okey-dokey with these morons).