The Politics Thread
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Comments
Let's see how long it takes for this to become the Trump is Hitler, the US is Nazi Germany and we're all going to die from global warming unless we stop driving, heating our houses and having kids thread again...
About Trump being like Hitler and pro Russia(don't ask me how someone can be pro Hitler and pro Russia), lets suppose that Trump is extremely racist; Why he din't used his presidential influence to remove white minority countries from H1B visa program and adds Russia? Haiti was eligible to H1B visa program until 2017, Ethiopia is eligible and Russia is not eligible (list here http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/H2B Visa Eligible Countries Update/ref/1845/ )
The merit based immigration is something that a lot of countries have. I an not pro or against Trump, just don't think that he is racist.
Black Mexicans deported from Mexico to Haiti for "looking like a Haitian"
http://www.hougansydney.com/whats-happening-in-haiti/black-mexicans-deported-from-mexico-for-looking-like-a-haitian-
See, only by looking like an Afro Caribbean, the Afro-Mexican was deported, now imagine if it happens in USA... An Afro Caribbean have a much more easy time trying to move (legally or not) to USA than to Mexico. No path to citizenship, if someone hires him for illegal work, he will be punished, no affirmative action program...
On China :
China Deports North Korean Workers Forced Into Sex Trade
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/deportation-06122014162010.html
Note that most North Koreans on China don't want live in China, they want move to South Korea. They should at least deport then to South Korea. When i visited Bariloche(Argentina), they asked how much money i was bringing, if i had a Hotel, etc. And yes, Argentina/Chile have a problem with illegal immigrants. At least in the left in Argentina don't advocate for affirmative actions and other programs like it. In Brazil there are affirmative action programs to protect the non white majority from the white minority. And who ended Slavery here? A blonde, blue eyed Princess(princess Isabel) and she lost her power after a coup. It was against the elite interest.
Affirmative action program in a mostly mixed race country leads to silly situations like for example a light brown skinned guy being considered "white" in Rio de Janeiro and black in Santa Catarina...
Trump at least is trying to end affirmative action program
Trump Administration Calls on Colleges to End Affirmative Action http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-administration-calls-for-end-to-affirmative-action.html
Affirmative action hurts whites and asians.
Affordable Housing
How can this be accomplished without saturating the market and lowering all housing prices, without creating ghettos or less than desirable places to live in a city and without creating a suburban sprawl that increases property taxes as new essentials are needing to be built like roads and sewers?Since a few people have not apparently read the thread rules at the start of this discussion, bear in mind that Rule 3 specifically forbids stereotyping, and political affiliation is treated the same as race or sex under this rule. Criticizing ideas is fine, but making negative generalizations about large groups of people is not allowed here. Ascribing absurd views or sinister motives to other people is against Rule 1.
Stereotyping people on the left or the right is not allowed. Ideas are worthy of criticism, but people aside from public figures are not subject to attack.
Also, bear in mind that this thread is dedicated to politics, not games.
EDIT: For those who are just now arriving at the thread, the comments in question have since been removed as of this writing.
Then there's the why of it. Is it to help the homeless? Many homeless people aren't homeless because they can't afford a place to live. It's kind of an alternative lifestyle from what I understand; think freedom from ties and responsibilities. I'm not sure they would even accept a free home in many cases, or would be in any state of mind to actually maintain one if they did accept it.
If it's to help the poor, that's fine but they seem to have places to live in the US and Europe. They're not the greatest places of course but they are 'affordable'. I'd argue that the poor in the US are better off than the middle class in many countries in Asia or Africa. Picture large family units (some three generations) living in tiny housing units or apartments. They don't seem to complain about it as much either. Go figure...
take something like this article from Toronto, Ontario for example:
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/07/18/toronto-condo-house-prices_a_23484784/
A price of a condo now is what a price of an averaged detached home cost 6 years ago.
So you have a good chunk of the population looking to purchase a house or property but are priced out of the market forcing to rent instead. Now there are benefits to renting as opposed to owning, but having a large renters market increases the prices across the board.
So for example, 10 years ago, I rented a room (shared kitchen and bath with the owners, utilities included not wifi) for $300 a month. Today a same room is about $600 a month the price I could have had a bachelor apartment for that. Today bachelors go for $1000 a month.
Utilities IMO is always Hydro (power), Water services, Heat (living in Canada its a must). These can be included in the "pricing of housing" but a lot of people have a hard time distinguishing between necessity
and luxury even when it comes to these. Luxury is Cable and Wifi and should never be included. At least here, in Ottawa, there is enough places that offer free wifi that is shouldn't be an issue. Hydro prices are out of control here that a lot of people need help paying it but that is another topic.
This story kinda triggered my thinking on it.
The 'up north' reference might be a Michigan thing so I'll say that it generally means travelling to a lesser populated area to enjoy nature...
This two guys was surprised because they found a blonde "hispanic"
http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/159532-Blonde-haired-Hispanics-and-Latinas-have-you-ever-seen-or-met-any
An American asking "How come people from Uruguay are white and good-looking?" https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100613130250AAU61UQ
And my USA teacher was thinking that she was in a "foreign classroom". I an not generalizing, but a lot of Americans believe that is a race, not just a group.
One of the problems about comparing people with Hitler is that he's been built up as someone uniquely evil and therefore any comparison is immediately subject to the charge of hyperbole. I think the reality though is that there was nothing unique about Hitler. There have been plenty of other historical figures that have been just as evil and there have been those just as destructive as well - the mongol invasions of the 13th century for instance were estimated to have resulted in the death of 5% of the world's population.
One of the interesting things about Hitler is that he started as a democratic politician. He never succeeded in getting a majority of people to vote for him in a genuine election, but did get a substantial minority to do so. Even within that group who supported him, if you had suggested to them in the early 1930s that Hitler would take Germany to war and indulge in systematic extermination of certain types of people, they would have laughed and told you not to be so ridiculous, but just enjoy the resurgence of international power and the growth in the economy.
While I think it's unlikely that the US would follow the same path as Nazi Germany, there are warning signs that I do think should be addressed seriously. Those include for instance:
- attacks by the government on the free press.
- attempts to limit who votes in elections.
- the increase in hyper-partisanship in politics where any action can be excused when it's applied to the 'enemy'.
- redefining what is meant by truth.
- abusing and ignoring the legal system, for instance in relation to family detentions.
- packing the judicial system with like-minded appointees.
- ignoring international agreements built up over many years.
I don't think any of the above are healthy in a democracy and I think, for those who wish to live in a democracy, it would be wise to consider where current trends might lead.
As I've written a bit more than I was originally intending, I'll address the global warming part of your post separately.
The evidence for global warming is overwhelming and the evidence that is caused by human intervention is already well above the 95% level normally accepted in statistics as evidence of a real effect. Even if a politician is unconvinced by that evidence it baffles me that anyone would not use the precautionary principle when deciding policy on such a major issue for the world.
As for what we should do, we've had this discussion before. I'm not advocating any reduction in driving or heating houses or having children. I am though advocating strongly that we do that in a way that reduces the problems of global warming, not increases them. So for instance:
- there should continue to be an extension in renewable energy generation. In particular I would argue for a major investment in generation methods that can meet base load demand (like tidal energy for instance). - there should also be far more energy storage capacity built up (including long term) to smooth out the impacts from periodic renewable sources like wind and solar.
- I have mixed feelings about nuclear. Compared to renewables it's expensive and inefficient, but it may be a good way to provide base load capacity in the medium term if the development of tidal energy is too slow.
- global warming is an international problem and requires an international solution. The US pulling out of the framework for this will be bad for everyone (US included).
Now why the country is progressive?
- Affirmative action to protect the non white majority from white minority
- The left wanna affirmative action not only on universities but on model agencies and on jobs.
- Insane strict gun laws, who was approved despite the population will in a public referendum
- Over 90% of the population is in favor of punishing teenagers for serious crimes. The state don't care
- There are laws who literally put the woman above the man in case of homicide, despite over 90% of victims of homicide being men.
- Racial discrimination have no "bail", is more easy to escape the jail by blinding/killing an person than by being racist.
- Sex reassignment surgery is covered in public healthcare(SUS) but facial reconstruction is not.
- According to many journalists, if you are more attracted to woman like Marina Ruy Barbosa than to woman like MC Carol, you are a racist.
- One professor who just said that the there are no evidences that races who developed in different places have a similar intelligence had his house burned and was forced leaved the country and abandon his carrer. He was not killed because despite being born in Brazil, he had EU citizenship.
And the list can go on. Bolsonaro on USA will be just one more republican candidate. Here he is popular because he is the first guy who is not lefitist. I don't like the "unionism" of him but he is the less evil of all candidates. And if he win, will be with almost no TV time, almost no publicity and all media against him.https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Brazil-2-Policemen-Arrested-in-Marielle-Franco-Investigation-20180724-0019.html
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rio-police-witness-linked-arrested-councilwoman-murder-56786622
For the record, the politics thread is not being held to a higher standard than other threads. The same standards apply to all discussions on the forum. The thread rules in the OP are there not to introduce a brand-new set of rules exclusive to the politics thread, but to clarify the enforcement of the Site Rules as they apply to a political discussion. Among other notices, the rule against "unapologetic bigotry" applies to political groups.
You've normally been very fair, SG, and I really hope you continue to be. Yes, I admit, sometimes I use too strong a language and come across as very derogatory. I have no problem toning it down here - as sometimes I lose sense of the fact that I'm on a gaming forum and not blogging away like normal. I can come on way too strong at times and toss out a lot of pejoratives...but do those poor, privileged classes really need to be protected on a BG message board?
What I'm saying is that I'm afraid the rules that are layed out preclude any attacks on privilege and power, seeing as how one cannot divide privilege and power from the privileged and powerful; therefore any political ideologue "left of Labour" has absolute zero say on this forum, because there is nothing really to say that differentiates someone far left of labour from labour itself, unless we get down to the specifics - i.e brass tacks. This being reform vs revolution, or in my view, symptom treating vs diagnosing the root cause. I, for one, am not interested in an echo chamber. I agree that the symptoms suck. But I'm not allowed to point fingers - which is very hard not to do.
May I request that there is at least a notification that a post has been deleted? This forum has been extremely civil compared to what the alternatives are out there on the rest of the web. The amount of passion behind posts might piss some people off but it also acts as an indicator as to the 'feelings' of posters rather than just logic. Politics is at least as much passion as it is logic...
I may disagree with your point of view but I really like hearing it. You're even further left than @jjstraka34 and @smeagolheart but don't post as often. Challenging people's views shouldn't be viewed as antagonistic unless it devolves into personal attacks IMHO.
I was in Moorhead a couple weeks ago to visit family but my dad did all the driving. I would love to have met you at a bar in Moorhead or Fargo but wasn't able to this time...
@Balrog99: I edited a previous post to explain that some posts were removed. It's our standard practice to notify users when deleting posts; the moderating team is writing up the notices now.
I must agree with both you and @jjstraka34 that this forum and this thread is remarkably civil considering the subjects we tackle. It's the best thread for politics that I have ever seen, and I personally take great pride in it. Even at the worst of times, the moderating team has been impressed with the overall quality of the community.
That, however, is exactly why we pay so much attention to the health of the thread, and why we wanted to clarify and refine some parts of the Site Rules. The only reason this thread has been as positive as it has is precisely because both moderators and users have held themselves and each other to high standards. The idea is to improve on something good, not fix something that's broken.
I suppose I should have made this a little more clear earlier on. The thought behind re-creating the thread wasn't "Wow, this thread is a horrible cesspool! We need to flood it with bleach to kill all the germs!" The thought behind it was, "This is an important thread that we're very proud of, and we want to make sure it stays that way."
Compare it to polishing a shiny marble statue and putting it on a less wobbly pedestal--or re-casting PFMW.
I don't post much here because it seems every time I try to do so it sticks out like a turd in a punch bowl - maybe I'm too impassioned. I seem to do better on Topix, WordPress, etc....there are a lot of turds in those punch bowls.
As for being "further left", to be honest, while I do refer to myself as such so as to keep things simple, in truth I don't put much stock into "left" and "right", as I believe modern political discourse and policy is nowhere near so simple as one side or the other. Whereas "right-wingers" don't tolerate me much at all, the modern "left" aren't exactly crazy about my views. To the right, I'm a "commie" (which is understandable enough as to why they would at least think that). But even among the so-called "left" , my pro-rural, anti-elitist, anti-ID politics tendencies somehow constitute "elements of fascism".