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Is Imoen still only available at 400K or 1.2M XP?

OK, so it's been a year or so since I've stuck with a game in BG2EE that reaches Spellhold.

With version 2.5 of BGEE I remember reading that NPCs would level up accordingly to the main character's level more, but does this include Imoen? And if not, why does she behave the way she does, with only XP at 400K or 1.2M, which is usually far lower than my party level?

It's a real pain having her at a lower level than the rest of the party when you meet her...and I don't really understand the logic behind it.

Comments

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    edited October 2
    the logic is that being in prison she can not make all that experience. this is true for a fighter, but she is in a prison for mages she has the chance to get instruction from them and she can train herself in the prison cell.
    feel free to console her some more xp, or to bring many scroll cases and kick everybody from the party while she learns and erases for a good xp boost, i never learn and erase, cause i find it a nonsense, but if a nonsense is used to balance an other nonsense i see a reason to do it.
    the other way to avoid the thing is to go to spellhood early, at the right moment she gets the best xp possible, and power gaming wise it is fine, but imo is not how the game is intended to be played.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,085
    edited October 2
    Yes, it does include Imoen.

    You can get Spellhold Imoen at 500k, 750k or 1,250k - the same as for all other NPCs in BGII:EE.

    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703

    Yes, it does include Imoen.

    You can get Spellhold Imoen at 400k, 800k or 1,200k. - the same as for all other NPCs in BGII:EE.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/902240/#Comment_902240
    reading there NPCs should have starting XP in steps of 250K xp, not 400K, has something changed in the last year?
    as in the last year i was not much active on the forums, actually i logged in very seldom, and i don't update my EE ( i dislike some nerfs that imho are really not needed :D ) i am not aware of the change if it had ever been made.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 16,085
  • MefestoMefesto Member Posts: 12
    would made sense for her not to level up while in prison though...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,040
    Mefesto said:

    would made sense for her not to level up while in prison though...

    Especially since I don't see any of the actual crazies there being able to teach.

  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 209
    Ah that's good she's in line with the others - I guess I just need to do less quests before I pick her up again :) Cheers

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    edited October 2
    @Mefesto
    what does not make sense is the whole way XP is given in the game, my backstabbing thieves often clear whole areas and everybody gets xp from that? or better the whole xp ting is more geared towards balance, small party gets more xp to compensate the number, than geared towards "making sense".

    but as i told, if we care about making sense, a mage to improve needs concentration, study and practicing a lot, immi in the asylum has the whole day to train herself and has contact with mages that can probably teach her something, to train in magic you don't need sparring partners and weapons, why suppose that she remains idle waiting for you to rescue her? she lacks of scrolls, but scrolls seem to be only useful to learn specific spells, not related on how fast a mage progresses. you can solo a mage using only few low level spells, without even learning the high level ones, if you are able to do it, and your mage will continue to gain levels as long as he kills foe (use the spells he knows).

    EDIT:
    ThacoBell said:

    Mefesto said:

    would made sense for her not to level up while in prison though...

    Especially since I don't see any of the actual crazies there being able to teach.
    while if she runs with a charname druid, korgan, keldorn, anomen, jaheira, after dropping jan or joshimo to make her place she has a lot of mages teaching her arcane magic...
    those crazy mages are crazy, is true, but at least they are mages, they actually know arcane magic.

    EDIT2:
    once an old woodworker told me that he learned how to work when he was a young apprentice from the elbows of his master as the boss was very jealous of his art and was always giving the back to the apprentice to hide what he did. this is how often apprenticeship worked in the old days, you did not have the "right to learn", you had to steal the knowledge and work very hard before the master finally decided that you was his successor and gave you full training.
    i assume that immi can do something like that, steal all the knowledge that she can. to be trained by elminster surely would have been better, but she is probably in a better position then the only mage in a party that is going from quest to quest almost without rest.

    Post edited by gorgonzola on
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,334
    I will note that Irenicus takes a very personal interest in training Imoen in Spellhold, so it is not unreasonable that she should gain some xp.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,040

    I will note that Irenicus takes a very personal interest in training Imoen in Spellhold, so it is not unreasonable that she should gain some xp.

    Where exactly are getting this from? Irenicus is coaxing her essence out by force so he can more easily rip it out of her to give to Bohdi. There is no instruction or training going on.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 257
    Several NPCs remain in the Copper Coronet the entire game yet can go from 500K XP to 1.25M XP while there if the player character waits a while to speak to them. That's unrealistic, for sure, but it's just how the game handles joinable NPCs.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    no instruction for sure, but i would say that to try to resist to a powerful mage that try to penetrate your very essence to steal your soul is a good training in concentration, mind focusing and other useful things that make a mage powerful. in the game the instruction, learning new spells, is all scroll reading related and there are examples of mages that did self training, imoen herself as afaik she never goes to a magic school or be apprentice of a more skilled mage, and nalia, that self trains herself as a thief and then as a mage.
    @ThacoBell , you can RP that mages need a special instruction and training from more advanced ones, and this is perfectly fine, it makes sense for you and there is nothing wrong about it, even if in game we don't have people teaching magic and training in magic.
    but if others like to RP that learning magic and training in magic works in a different way that is as fine as your choice. there is more than 1 clue that the latter choice is RP compatible, the fact a mage progresses while being the only party mage and imoen and nalia background.

    the truth, and is a mechanical one, not a RP one, is that party members progress completing quests, even if a npc can be there only in the moment that the quest is completed and not in the core of it, and killing foe/lock and traps, and is not related to the NPC that gets the kill or do the trap work, the xp is shared among all party members. this fact, and the bad implementation of imoen that was added to the game at the last moment afaik, make her underleveled and very underleveled for those that run small parties. i usually have 3 or 4 people parties and usually i do all the levels of WK but the final boss in chap 2. guess how much she is behind the rest of the party and how less future XP available she has compared to a run where the party rush to spellhood.
    so we can really RP almost all that we want, sometimes i RP like you think and then have to babysit her for the rest of soa and a big part of tob, cause PG is not my only concern. and sometimes i give her a xp boost, usually turning to stone a dragon, turning him back to flash, healing him and repeating multiple times. and this because i don't like to console in xp, but it solve the immi problem creating an other one, the rest of the party gets too OP.
    probably i should better console xp to her cause nor running an over leveled party nor babysitting her is fun in my book. i see good RP and game mechanics related reasons to do it, is only that using console is not my style...
    and talking of RP to rush to save her is fine, to do it and then loose time doing the chap 2 quests left, with her and my soul to rescue and the elves town in peril is a crap decision. i can delay going to spellhood cause i want to be ready, and ready is much more than having the money to pay the ST or bodhi, is also and mainly equipment and XP. i know that i have to face the powerful CW and maybe irenicus himself if i want to free her.
    after spellhood, after defeating irenicus and defeating a whole drow town and the rest i find in the underdark there is no reason to not go immediately to take bodhi and then her brother.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    jsaving said:

    Several NPCs remain in the Copper Coronet the entire game yet can go from 500K XP to 1.25M XP while there if the player character waits a while to speak to them. That's unrealistic, for sure, but it's just how the game handles joinable NPCs.

    this is true, but you still don't know them, you can RP that they have ever been of the level they have the first time you find them. no reason to suppose that they rise their levels while you do it before you meet them. and after you meet them if they stay still in the CC their level does not rise any more.
    from the RP point of view how the game deals with the NPC XP at the moment you meet them is sound and fine.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,040
    @gorgonzola Nothing in the game implies that Irenicus is teaching Imoen magic. You may as well make the argument that being waterboarded and then shot in the head is training to learn how to swim.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703

    no instruction for sure, but i would say that to try to resist to a powerful mage that try to penetrate your very essence to steal your soul is a good training in concentration, mind focusing and other useful things that make a mage powerful.

    @ThacoBell
    i did not tell that he teaches her magic, i told the very opposite (for sure...), what i tell is that to resist to what he does to her is imho a valid and effective training of qualities that make a mage powerful.
    and your comparison imho is very misplaced.

    if we want to use the lore we can get from the game i would say " Nothing in the game implies that any mage is teaching to other people magic", slightly changing your own words. even in the mage stronghold quest where you have apprentices you are more a supervisor than a teacher, you are not able to create the items they create, other way you would certainly do it. they don't ask you any advice on how to do their work, only leave to you the decision of what item they will work on.
    your assumption that someone has to teach to others magic has no clue in the game afaik.
    and if you think that a mage to progress has to be instructed by an other mage please never level up your party mages beyond the level that your best one has when you first meet him, cause while adventuring with you they can not attend some magic school. ;)

    as i told if that is your way to RP and have fun playing so please do it, we all have the maximum freedom to play our own runs as we like.
    but please leave to the other players the same freedom of having a personal opinion, even if it differs from yours, unless you have in game clues, and not personal opinions, that the reasons they have to RP in a different way are not sound.


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