NWN versus Unity/Unreal

Japualtah

Didn't really know where to post that, but this is a question I've been having in mind for quite some time : is it still worth it developping a PW on NWN or should a dedicated developper move on to a newer engine?

This is a genuine question, I've been working like mad since March rebuilding my 15 years old PW and I love every second spent on NWN, but wouldn't I be better off with Unity or Unreal?

I dread having to rebuild everything from scratch, especially the graphics part, what we have here still looks good enough to me and is coherent, while developping something from scratch would either need mad skills/work or a lot of money to buy assets that match one with the other.

I haven't still delved into those tools, so what is your experience if you did? How does it compare to the experience here?

Cheers.

themazingness

I'm not a developer, but they are very different tools. NWN isn't for commercial use. The other two are primarily for that. NWN is a great way to make your own RPG using D&D 3.0 rules and not have to worry about licensing (because you aren't making money off the game). Unity is for making cross-platform games (something particularly helpful for tablet games). Developers that were making Flash games previously are often the ones that use it. Unreal is for devs that are making more advanced, 3D games.

TarotRedhand

Don't forget that you will need to learn a programming language such as C#/C++, write your own game ruleset code, ai etc. with unity. Unless you've got a reasonably large team what you are proposing will probably take years to see through to the end with unity. NwN has already solved the greater amount of problems that you would more than likely face with unity. Stick with NwN and update your PW. The only cost of doing it that way is your time.

TR

GM_ODA

NOT using NWN is flat out a lot more work. Not for a single dev to try unless they love total faceplant fails.

Japualtah

I was a professional programmer, not afraid of the C++ aspect of those tools which, in fact seem to be a step forward from our very basic toolset editor and I developped my own game rules already for our pen & paper RP club.

Keep it coming, I'd like to hear more

GM_ODA

Then you likely understand that a team of pros or former pros could build a nice game using something like the tools you mention, but it is more work than a single 'former pro programmer' might reasonably undertake. While the tools you name (I am familiar with them) do create a single or multiplayer game - you should consider that the NWN toolset simplifies the process considerably. It enables you to use D&D rules. It is a game that others are already familiar with and don't have to download afresh (it can be like suggesting recreational self-dentistry to get some users to download software from an unknown entity - and honestly, that's understandable). You'll be a totally unknown with an unknown game title and that means you'll need to be a capable publicity manager too (and web dev and graphic person). With NWN you get a big leg-up on the process. Yes the graphics are a bit stale, but you can upgrade those with HAK packs to a certain degree. If you are not happy with the NWN graphics, at least build a team so you don't step in something so deep as to be a 'single person waste of time'. I love programming as much as anyone, and I won't consider such things without at least a partner or three, even with the tools you name.

Japualtah

Yeah, I guess so, good points.

I didn't have the time yet to delve into Neverblender, I hope it can handle emitters, moving textures/meshes as well as 3DS Max could in the past. That's a major concern tbh.

Ancarion

It's certainly do-able to make such a game with Unity, of course, but it is a daunting undertaking. On my last foray into that madness, I was able to create a few areas and link them with transitions, and imported a few creature and player models from NWN using Unity's legacy animation system, as well as a bunch of placeables. I'm by no means a skilled programmer, so I used a pre-packaged RPG system to prototype gameplay, which allowed for a customized combat system with a few attack and defense skills, and conversations with quests and variables. But it was a huge job, and started becoming more like work than fun for me, so I shelved the whole thing.

If your intent is to make a professional-quality game, then you would certainly need a lot of talented help, but if you just wanted to mess around with friends creating a game that might never get completely finished, you could have a lot of fun.

I think the biggest question is why you would want to start such a project. What aspects of NWN do you find lacking? For example, if you want to move away from the quasi turn-based combat or D&D rules, it might make sense to look at other engines. If it's the dated graphics, I might be tempted to wait and see what Beamdog is able to do before giving up on NWN. Moving on to something "new" just for it's own sake is probably not worth the trouble. There are still AA games being made in what is virtually an Infinity-style engine, and they are doing pretty well, too.

Japualtah

To be honest, I don't find NWN lacking, besides the 3D modelling limitations I suspect from Neverblender (and I might even be wrong), the reason why I asked the question is primarily: shouldn't I invest my time, which is around 50 hours/week, into something modern rather than old.

But you guys helped me think it through and I feel relieved in some way

Caomh

There is a lot of bias in this thread so I thought I would jump in and be a counter point.

1. NWN is coded in C which the poster mentioned he is semi professional in C++ that will require in remembering the differences between the two.

2. Unless the original poster is just using all stock than he will be programing all by himself the new and expanded systems for NWN the same as using Unreal (which with the C++ background would be better than Unity). Unless he collaborates which may be done with either NWN or Unreal.

3. NWN has a head start on doing everything. It has everything nicely wrapped in the kit. This is true, however Unreal has Blueprints (Visual Scripting the same as NWN tool kit) Which may be used as the base frame work. Then building out from there on a modern system.

4. Modern Engine: Nothing is hard coded you can use classes, levels, spell books, and skills how you want.

5. Database management is easier outside of the NWN Aurora tool kit.

6. Third Party Tools: Using Unreal, everything you need is in Unreal. The only exception is a 3D art program for character models. Blender is free and there is no requirement to use a secondary third party tool to import things from Blender into Unreal.


If you are asking this question you are already considering it. I would say do it, start with investing nothing and see if you like doing it rather than idea of doing it. If it does not work out the tool kit will still be here and Beamdog will continue to improve it adding in more functionality.

Japualtah

You know, I've just been watching a youtube video about the upcoming MMOs in 2018 and 2019. I was shocked to hear that some of these games raised millions (2Mio US$ seems common) for what doesn't really look better than NWN.
I've been a founder myself of Shroud of the Avatar and both times I tried to play it during development I uninstalled the game in the next few minutes because it was complete vaporware.
I'll probably give it a shot some day now that it's officially released but there isn't more in that game than in my PW.
So, even if it takes years to build something new from scratch, I don't care, can't be worse than what I just saw

Ok, so bottom line will be: finish what needs to be finished on NWN, wait and see if the mobile version floods PWs with players (one can dream) and check Unreal/Unity ASAP which could be years from now