Ultimate Team
Sikorsky
Member Posts: 402
I'm courious what do you have in mind in terms of building the best possible team to complete BG II and ToB. What class should the main char be and what NPC do you bring with ya. We are talking about BG without mods and self-made characters, only joinable ones. The team must be powerful through all game so we're not talking on full mage group who gets extremly powwerfull mid to end game. My proposition is:
CHARNAME: Human Kensai13/Mage
KELDORN
ANOMEN
EDWIN
YOSHIMO--->IMOEN
In TOB add Sarevok
This is what comes to my mind in terms of Power-Gaming. In BGII six slot is for temporary NPC just to finish their quests. We will level-up way faster that way and start TOB on very high level. The Canon team is also super strong:
CHARNAME: BERSERKER - Dual-wielding Katanas or something else
MINSC
JAHERIA
AERIE
YOSHIMO--->IMOEN
In TOB add Sarevok
What are your ideas? Give me an example of team that beats what I propose above^.
CHARNAME: Human Kensai13/Mage
KELDORN
ANOMEN
EDWIN
YOSHIMO--->IMOEN
In TOB add Sarevok
This is what comes to my mind in terms of Power-Gaming. In BGII six slot is for temporary NPC just to finish their quests. We will level-up way faster that way and start TOB on very high level. The Canon team is also super strong:
CHARNAME: BERSERKER - Dual-wielding Katanas or something else
MINSC
JAHERIA
AERIE
YOSHIMO--->IMOEN
In TOB add Sarevok
What are your ideas? Give me an example of team that beats what I propose above^.
1
Comments
Second strongest fighter in the game: Mazzy. Halfling,+ saves, innate STR spell, good spread of pips. Both ranged and melee.
Strongest mage in the game: Edwin. OP +spell slots and enough stat points where needed.
Best thief in the game: Jan. Gnome, +saves, arcane magic, +spell slots.
Best cleric in the game: Anomen. Fighter levels, +APR, decent stat spread, decent pip spread. Decent personality
Charname: Can be anything really with this team, but dwarf fighter/cleric is a solid choice. Inquisitor for some OP dispel magic and Carsomyr is good. A fighter to druid dual or MC is great as well for some inesct plagues and elementals etc.
Personally I almost never run with two pure fighters, Mazzy and Korgan, if ChARNAME is also a warrior class. In that case I splice in something more interesting like haer'dalis, Aerie, Cernd or maybe an EE NPC, but I think the above team is among the strongest possible in terms of pure killing speed in combo with versatility and survivability.
- berserker rage is broken good; it cannot be dispelled, lasts quite long and protects you from nearly everything
- Before dualling, a pure berserker is far stronger than a pure kensai.
- At high level, the bonus damage from being a low level Kensai don't help that much. Berserker rage is just way more useful.
Further, dualling any fighter / mage is best done at level 9. The down time is still a breeze at that level. Doing it later means you have far more down time, and even hurts in the long run because it takes that much longer to reach the higher mage levels. The benefit of those few extra fighter levels is absolutely minimal, especially because you get spells like Tensers Transformation anyway.
Charname
Korgan
Edwin
Viconia
Hexxat
Sarevok (ToB)
I solo charname through BG which gets about 1 million XP and means that BG2 npcs join at about 1.2 mill.
Currently I'm running a berserker charname with this party through BG2 (bit of overkill in the meat grinding dept.)
I've got a fighter/mage charname who has already completed BG, waiting in the wings and ready to go for my next BG2 run.
And I've got a berserker soloing BG at the moment who I intend to dual to mage at level 12 at the start of BG2.
- Anomen better than Viconia becase he has fighter side, apr etc, and can reach the same level as Viconia. The adder mr is not that important in a party. Worth to mention Cernd, because in an unmodded game the druid spells are esiest way to kill mages.
- Korgan of course, the best fighter here.
- Keldorn if not take Cernd or an inquisitor/druid charname, or you can take Mazzy, Anomen or Jaheira for that slot.
- thief is only needed to find and disable traps, for that Imoen is more than enough, and she is a powerful mage. Jan's thief side is a waste, only useful if you base your tactic about using the HLA cheesy traps.
- mage: Edwin is a beast, or a charname specialist mage, sorcerer etc.
- specialist role: you can use haer dalise or charname bard for mage and trap supporting without being a thief.
Charname class is almost doesnt matter, because you can use the party members to fill all roles you need. If you really want to use a full time thief, than use fighter/thief charname, because a fighter not loosing anything important as being multiclassed.
Example teams:
- korgan, jaheira, nalia/imoen, anomen, edwin and charname who can be anything in this party. You will have 3 fighting capable member, 2 true mages, 1 full and 1 half divine caster and acces to insect plague against mages. You can replace jaheira with keldorn for the same role, but it has some allignement issues.
- mazzy, keldorn, anomen, nalia/imoen,
Aerie and charname.
- fighter/thief charname, korgan, cernd, anomen/jahieira, edwin, haer dalise. You will have all thief skills, traps from 2 person, 2 full divine caster(or 1,5 it using jaheira), 1,5 arcane caster, 5 from 6 character can fight melee (only edwin cant). If you really have time or exp maybe try a f/m/t with this party.
main char dwarf fighter/thief
korgan
mazzy
anomen
yoshimo -> imoen
edwin
that dwarf fighter/thief can still hit 200 HP at max level without giving him all that HP items, and can still hit good attacks per round with dual wielding while still having some amazing AC due to UAI, plus just straight up amazing saves
korgan being a fighter grows up levels faster than keldorn/minsc/jaheira and gets more high level abilities, and of coarse the amazing saves that come with dwarves, and since we have mazzy on our team and a fighter/thief as the main we will be using a shield and crom fayer ( because he will be using the gauntlets of dex ) and still hit over 200 HP and -15 AC, and then of coarse of the god mode ability of enrage lolers
mazzy is almost just as a good as korgan, just without the HP and enrage ability, but she does get invoke courage which is actually great, and she gets 2 uses of lay on hands, and her STR ability is pretty cool, and for weapon wise, we will be going with axe of the unyielding for that CON bonus, and with the iounstone that gives +15 HP she should still hit around 200 or so HP with -15 AC
anomen is a great cleric, because of those 7 fighter levels he gets something better than the other clerics of that level: to hit/ to damage/ attacks per round, especially at range, with righteous magic and draw upon holy might, he can deal some KILLER damage from the back row, unless for some weird reason you like putting this guy in melee, but with that garbage DEX he will only ever hit 16 with DuHM and that is way out to level 18, so go with sling, crank that out, equip everard's +5 sling and start destroying the baddies
yoshimo -> imoen, yoshimo isn't all that great to be honest, it will take a few levels to hit decent open locks and trap disarming ( unless you find the lock pick ring in the shadow thief compound ) but imoen, that is the one you want, now because of EE she has more than enough skill to do all the thieving you need to do in the game, and anything she lacks your dwarven fighter thief can do it instead, wear she shines is that she is a full mage ( no multi-class mage crap ) so she gets full levels and grows up faster than a multi-class and she can use ANY mage spell, word
edwin, what needs to be said here? his stats are ironically garbage, but that just goes to show it doesnt matter because when it comes to arcane spell casting NO ONE can beat this guy, not even a charname ( thats hardcore) with an almost game breaking extra TWO spells per level to memorize while stacking that with rings of wizardry/acuity oh man, the spells, spells, spells, spells, plus because of the nether scroll as well he gets a baller 20 lore bonus which helps make up for his no identify using (although you can just use the goggles of identification ) but anyways, edwind best wizerd, harry, uncontested
My pick I guess would be
Korgan (best fighter)
Mazzy (another good fighter)
Jan (arcane casting + thief stuffs, thief HLAs)
Viconia (Or Anomen, guess he is better honestly I can't stand listening to him and I like the MR quite a lot).
Edwin (best mage, bar none)
Keldorn could make the list. He is really solid.
Korgan - A strong melee combatant with great saves and the ability to activate rage immunities when needed.
Keldorn - A decent fighter who's also the best dispeller in the game bar none. A lot of people give up on dispel magic because it so rarely works against tough foes but that isn't an issue with Keldorn's double-strength special ability.
Jaheira - The only character in the game who can cure wounds, cast insect spells, raise the dead, and use fighter HLAs.
Edwin - His extra spell slots are indispensable in areas where resting is limited, which matters from the very beginning of the game all the way to Melissan.
For CHARNAME, my preference is a half-elf fighter/mage/thief. Fighter/mages are the game's strongest tanks bar none due to the huge defensive advantages mage buffs bring to the table, and adding thief to the mix means you don't have to reserve a party slot for any of the game's thief NPCs and can instead use it for another full caster. Which brings me to my last pick:
Imoen - For old times' sake.
Keldorn (high level dispel, true sight, both casting time of 1)
Anomen (dual class benefit of good tank and high level cleric spells)
Nalia (highest level mage available for good party, good starting ring, potions of perception for 100 in find traps)
Jaheira (druid abilities good, but not indispensable I feel. Not as valuable as the above I felt especially as she never reached druid level 15 and had fewer HLAs).
Imoen (another good mage).
Charname was like a lawful good Korgan (my dwarf had no fighter kit though).
I am contemplating the following for a no-reload SCS and Ascension play through:
Replacing Imoen with Haerdalis (he looks good if played smartly and when micromanaged- something I do a lot. He can tank better too).
Replacing Jaheira with Mazzy (good saves and I was going to apply BG1 weapon proficiency system in my SCS play through. It makes fighters better. The normal BG2 proficiency system weighed against her in my first play through).
I currently consider Keldorn, Anomen and Nalia essential picks with my Charname who will be the same as above (there may be better options but I like his excellent saves and high HP).
No evil party members for roleplaying reasons.
"The Nightmare on Sword Coast"
Charname: Human, Berserker, Halberd, Neutral Evil - I don't want a pure Sarevok copy so I made a better one.
Dorn Il-Khan: The equivalent of Tazok, same alligment, big, half-blooded and fighting with a two-handed sword.
Edwin Odesseiron: The equivalent of Semaj, same alligment, also Conjurer.
Viconia DeVir: The equivalent of Tamoko, same alligment, our future love.
Eldoth Kron: The equivalent of Angelo Dosan. In my opinion he is the closest one to Angelo among joinable characters - same alligment, both are spell casters and both are using bows.
Skie Silvershield: She's Eldoth girlfriend so I had to take her with us. We also need a help of thief so she fits.
I'm in Cloakwood now so I don't have Skie with me. Can you tell me what happens if my rep drops to 1? Will she leave or Eldoth will somehow convince her to stay? I never played with that pair before.
I think this team is very uber-power for BG:I but I don't have plans for SoD, BG:II and ToB. How would you change this team? I wan't it to stay evil becouse RP is important in that particular playthrough.
My Legit Party - SoA
PC - Blackguard
Jaheira - Druid
Anomen - Fighter/Cleric
Yoshimo - Thief > Imoen - Thief/Mage
Edwin - Mage
Viconia - Cleric
My Legit Party - ToB
PC - Blackguard
Jaheira - Druid
Sarevok - Fighter
Imoen - Thief/Mage
Edwin - Mage
Viconia - Cleric
My Dream Party - SoA
PC - Blackguard
Yoshimo - Thief > Imoen - Thief/Mage
Baeloth - Mage
Viconia - Cleric
My Dream Party - ToB
PC - Blackguard
Imoen - Thief/Mage
Baeloth - Mage
Viconia - Cleric
My Mod Party - SoA
PC - Blackguard
Viconia - Cleric
Anomen - Fighter/Cleric
Edwin - Mage
Montaron - Fighter/Thief
Xzar - Mage "Necromancer"
My Mod Party - ToB
PC - Blackguard
Viconia - Cleric
Sarevok - Fighter
Edwin - Mage
Montaron - Fighter/Thief
Xzar - Mage "Necromancer"
TEAM 1
Physical Power, with Haer'Dalis buffing the capabilities of all these absurdely strong warriors. Keldorn is there to debuff protections with Carsomyr.
Korgan
Sarevok
Keldorn (with Carsomyr)
Haer'Dalis
Viconia
Charname (Kensai/Thief)
TEAM 2
Maybe this party would be more powerfull, because of its arcane resources. You certainly would need more time to finish your fights than Team 1 would need it, but I guess you'd be more prepared for any possible circumstance.
Korgan
Sarevok
Viconia
Edwin
Imoen
Charname (Fighter/Mage)
@Vasculio
For example, is it better from a narrative perspective to have different parties in each game? You'd want to include cameos and connective tissue, of course, such as saving Dynaheir in BG1 and using Khalid and Jaheira in the Bereghost mines, but not have them really stick around until Imoen recruits them for her rescue mission at the end of SoD. Have the only constant (as much as she is able) be Imoen herself, serving as Charname's rock when everything else is falling apart. Beyond her, however, make the rest of the party a revolving cavalcade of people that use and abandon Charname the second they get what they wanted.
Or is it a better story to tell of a warped family of tainted blood? A small collection of broken souls bound together by shared tragedy and reforged by ceaseless conflict, favoring a party you can (more or less) field in all three games?
Or is Charname not the center of the game? Is it as important or more that Valygar good-naturedly accept the role of Squire to Mazzy? Bird-centric poet Haer'dalis and his affair with the wingless Aerie? Minsc taking Aerie or Nalia as a witch and replacement for Dynaheir? Crude and lewd Korgan and his oddly cute fascination with Mazzy and retconned desire to toughen up Aerie?
So? Anyone got any opinions on how to tell the best story possible through party makeup.
I feel like the "canon" party is pretty much the best (narrative-wise) you're going to get.
Minsc
Jahiera
Yourself (Fighter/Mage)
Aerie
Haer'Dalis
Yoshimo
Having Minsc get over Dyanheir and having Aerie become is witch, romancing Jaheira as well as her getting over Khalid, Yoshimo and his eventual twist, and Aerie and Haer'Dalis' romance, saving your sister, plus your Fighter/Mage being the antithesis of both Sarevok and Irenicus.
That, in my mind, in the best narrative experience you're going to get out of Baldur's Gate 2 in a single playthrough. Simply because I think that's the game developers made it, seeing how 75% of that party you get in the the first hour of the game, and Quayle just tells you to save Haer'Dalis after travelling with Aerie for an hour.
Or just have Jan in your party, things will surely... turn up.
That said, Edwin is insanely over-the-top as a mage, and mages are king of the end-game, so Edwin is in regardless.
Next, I think about an overpowered party as being one that cruises through most fights with minimal effort - I find mages, clerics, and other casters too heavy on the micro-management, so let's focus on a strong melee team.
If we are playing BG1 as well, let's start with the PC. For best autopilot, a half-orc fighter/cleric hits some pretty inane stats with sufficient re-rolls and tomes. Expect to be regenerating, with 20 STR/CON, 19 DEX, and 21 WIS for bonus spells. This essentially frees up STR kit for the rest of the party in SoA/ToB, and that can affect the mix.
Do we have a spare STR belt now for Rasaad, as a high level monk is quite frightening in full flow.
Does the extra belt mean we can build Crom Faeyr with less regard for the sacrifice? If so, who will wield it? I tend towards Anomen dual wielding Crom Faeyr and the Mace of Disruption, but the mace is great for any PC getting many attacks per round, which may lean towards a true fighter getting whirlwind attacks (it is embarrassing how quickly Kangaxx vanishes, never mind lesser undead.
The most important weapon may be Carsomyr, the Paladin's trusty blade. This is a key melee weapon due to its dispel effects, and appears to make Keldorn an essential party member, but there are other options. PC may choose instead to take the Paladin role, and should be significantly better stetted foe the role. Alternatively, thieves get use-any-item, although that does not grant proficiency. Given the poor state of combat thieves in the game, this comes back to another PC option - a fighter/thief dual. Why dual and not multi? Not much in it, and multi will be stronger for much of the game (notably down time regaining the class abilities) but will end up with full grandmastery too. The important thing id that fighters unlock extra APR, and that will matter most come end-game, and that is true for both dual and multi. So plan A is take a thief kit (they are better!) until just over 3 million xp, grab use any item, and immediately dual to fighter. This will give top THAC0 but is a super-long term investment, probably not paying off until at the throne of Bhaal itself. Plan B is Beserker to 9th, for grand mastery and max hit points, then dual to thief for best play-time.
Generally, I just go with Keldorn as it is easiest, but he does not always get on so well with Edwin...
Rounding out, Korgan and Anomen will give low maintenance fighter types, using variety of weapons and other kit.
This gives 4 or 5 strong picks, and fill the rotating slot (after claiming everyone's xp) with whoever fills the hole the best. Sarevok may seem an appealing choice for this strategy (full frontal melee!) but is usually too far behind on xp when you finally reach him, the same problem for Imoen.
So, my suggested party, dropping Keldorn for party unity:
PC: half-orc fighter/cleric with insane stats
Korgan
Anomen
Rasaad
Edwin
Jan or Hexxat (to cover thievery)
Jan is more versatile, but micromanages as a caster.
Hexxat has some pretty insane stats of her own, but at the end of the day is 'just' a thief.
Many will complain that this party lacks enough mage firepower, and that Rasaad needs too much baby sitting early on, but it should play easily and well without having to think too hard and micromanage.
(And yes, despite my own advice, I give up on Carsomyr
charname blackguard
dorn
korgan
haer dalis
viconia
edwin (hexxat and jan jansen are viable too)later on you can pick sarevok
good party
charname cavalier
keldorn
valygar
mazzy
wilson
aerie
and the chest issue is mostly only BG1. (which is also not really an issue if you know your STR potions well)
to this day the only really nasty chest is still in Kiel's tomb.
in my first playthrough i used hexxat she was interesting all that vampire stuff
Keldorn: Cars
Korgan: Crom
Mazzy: FoA
Anomen: MoD/Rune
Swashbuckler>Mage
Edwin