Kensai/Thief equipment?

Dordledum

As the topic says I'm doing a Kensai/Thief dualing at 9, grandmastery in longswords.

Wondering on how to survive until Use any item kicks in. Shield Amulet, Ring of Protection, what else?

Chronicler

If you're playing with a group then mages have armor spells they can cast on others. One of them's like Ghost Armor or Spirit Armor or something like that.

Very_BigSword

Dordledum said:

As the topic says I'm doing a Kensai/Thief dualing at 9, grandmastery in longswords.

Wondering on how to survive until Use any item kicks in. Shield Amulet, Ring of Protection, what else?

Spirit armor cast by a companion (Level 4 mage spell), potions of defense/stone form/invulnerability will allow tanking. Shield amulet or Druid's barkskin spell are less effective but still helpful. Luck or chant spells, protection from evil, defensive harmony.

Ring/amulet of protection, items with passive AC boost e.g. cloak of balduran, cloak of sewers, ring of gaxx. Maybe ring of earth control had an AC bonus IIRC? Girdles of bluntness and the like reduce AC vs specific damage types, Boots of missile avoidance etc.

Single weapon style 2 pips is an option for -2 melee AC with more crit chance as a side benefit (tasty back stabs). During thief levels take dagger proficiency to give a missile weapon option when not needed on the front line. This choice removes the need for AC completely in some parties.

Really there are a lot of options there but the potions are finite so you need to use those wisely.

Skatan

^- this.

Shield amulet if you want to be self-sustained, but Barkskin is a often under-appreciated spell for AC. I'd probably use primarily ranged weapons while leveling the thief and only use backstab/melee selectively. Also, if you web your enemies and use potions/ring of freedom, you will obviously not get hit a lot

Chronicler

Skatan said:

^- this.

Shield amulet if you want to be self-sustained, but Barkskin is a often under-appreciated spell for AC. I'd probably use primarily ranged weapons while leveling the thief and only use backstab/melee selectively. Also, if you web your enemies and use potions/ring of freedom, you will obviously not get hit a lot

Doesn't Barksin only set your base AC to a set value? Meaning it would have to be a pretty powerful Barkskin to be any benefit to a Kensai, who already has a bonus to its base AC?

Blackraven

Chronicler said:

Doesn't Barksin only set your base AC to a set value? Meaning it would have to be a pretty powerful Barkskin to be any benefit to a Kensai, who already has a bonus to its base AC?

Yes AC 6 + 1 for every 4 priest levels, so it will only equal Spirit Armor in AC protection once the priest casting it is level 20. As of priest level 24 and up, Barksin gives better AC than Spirit Armor.
Its duration (4 rounds + 1 per level of the caster) however will only match that of Spirit Armor (3 turns) once the casting priest reaches level 26, and after that it will actually be better. By that time however you'll probably be very close to UAI.

Note that Spirit Armor gives a +3 bonus to saves vs spells, while Barkskin gives a +1 bonus to all saves except spells. Therefore it can be beneficial to use both spells at the same time, even after UAI, in mage battles (some spells require saves vs death and others saves vs death), and against enemies with magical and special attacks (breath, poison), such as dragons, some demons, etc.

Lammas

If you are playing with a party which contains armored frontliner(s) you can take the backline and throw axes if you put 2 of your starting points into that. Or just generally let the armored guys go in first and then pick your victim for flanking.

Stacking some defensive potions into the potion bag ain't a bad idea. Takes some time to go and pull one from the bag and then drink it when appropriate but it definitely helps a lot in some situations.

Chronicler

Blackraven said:

Chronicler said:

Doesn't Barksin only set your base AC to a set value? Meaning it would have to be a pretty powerful Barkskin to be any benefit to a Kensai, who already has a bonus to its base AC?

Yes AC 6 + 1 for every 4 priest levels, so it will only equal Spirit Armor in AC protection once the priest casting it is level 20. As of priest level 24 and up, Barksin gives better AC than Spirit Armor.
Its duration (4 rounds + 1 per level of the caster) however will only match that of Spirit Armor (3 turns) once the casting priest reaches level 26, and after that it will actually be better. By that time however you'll probably be very close to UAI.

Note that Spirit Armor gives a +3 bonus to saves vs spells, while Barkskin gives a +1 bonus to all saves except spells. Therefore it can be beneficial to use both spells at the same time, even after UAI, in mage battles (some spells require saves vs death and others saves vs death), and against enemies with magical and special attacks (breath, poison), such as dragons, some demons, etc.

Does Barskin scale past level 20? That's pretty nifty.

Blackraven

Chronicler said:

Blackraven said:

Does Barskin scale past level 20? That's pretty nifty.

Just checked. Like most spells, it doesn't. Good point. So Spirit Armor is better than Barksin except for the saves bonuses I mentioned.

Very_BigSword

Blackraven said:

Chronicler said:

Blackraven said:

Does Barskin scale past level 20? That's pretty nifty.

Just checked. Like most spells, it doesn't. Good point. So Spirit Armor is better than Barksin except for the saves bonuses I mentioned.

All very true. Barkskin or the shield amulet is adequate for lower level adventuring or lesser encounters. Potions or higher level buffs for strong melee or archer opponents.

Personally I find that I have a few available level 2 druid spell slots to find a use for, if I'm with Jaheira or Faldorn. The natures beauty summon can also cast Barkskin.

But Lvl 4 mage slots I never have too many, even on Edwin. If running a Kensai I would consider selecting spirit armor for Baeloth especially with SOD in mind.

Blackraven

Very_BigSword said:

Blackraven said:

Chronicler said:

Blackraven said:

Does Barskin scale past level 20? That's pretty nifty.

Just checked. Like most spells, it doesn't. Good point. So Spirit Armor is better than Barksin except for the saves bonuses I mentioned.

All very true. Barkskin or the shield amulet is adequate for lower level adventuring or lesser encounters. Potions or higher level buffs for strong melee or archer opponents.

Personally I find that I have a few available level 2 druid spell slots to find a use for, if I'm with Jaheira or Faldorn. The natures beauty summon can also cast Barkskin.

But Lvl 4 mage slots I never have too many, even on Edwin. If running a Kensai I would consider selecting spirit armor for Baeloth especially with SOD in mind.

I agree that mage level 4 has many good spell options, so it's limiting to have a mage forced to reserve at least one Spirit Armor for the Kensai. Edwin, for being a specialist and for his necklace, and Baeloth as you mentioned are the best arcane companions in that respect.

In Sorecerous Sundries you can buy 20 scrolls of Spirit Armor. Those plus potions (defense, invulnerability) should help the Kensai a great deal for the remainder of BG1 and SoD, at least for the harder fights.