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I have just finished Mask of the Betrayer (spoilers!)...

ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
...and I'm sickened. With myself. I went the most evil, cruel, ruthless route. I devoured every soul and spirit I could encounter - including Okku, my companions, Founder, and everybody else. Eventually only One of Many remained at my side.
I sent everyone I could to flesh-eating uthraki, just because I could. I massacred berserkers in Mulsantir. I ate Gann's mother right in front of him. I kept choosing the most vile options.
So in the end I managed to become some anti-god eldritch abomination and man - I feel like I need to take a shower right now. I do not know RPG campaign that would unnerve me like MotB did; only comparable situation was pen-and-pencil roleplay I had few years ago (funnily, it was pretty similar - my character had wraith dog and I ordered him to eat soul of child that trusted me; after that I couldn't sleep because of bad conscience; good times!). It was pretty amazing that creators actually made full-scale content for evil characters. Usually you are supposed to be good guy and evil or wrong choices aren't there or are not really satisfying. Playing MotB I felt like I'm uncovering origin story of some super-villain. Very pleasing change of tone from saving the world.
Other thing I really like - self-explanatory motivation for a hero without resorting to villain or enforcing some belief on character. In OC I've always felt that I act doesn't make sense for a character who doesn't care about his home village. The same thing with SoU. In HotU you do things because they are to be done, then writer takes easy way out with geas. In MotB things flow more naturally. I read that some people find spirit-eater management tedious, but for it was enjoyable and not all that challenging. Suppressing hunger is easy, and if you go full-craving game makes sure you never run out of food (well, not literally, but you can easily finish campaign on full craving almost never suffering any penalties).
MotB has fine choice of companions. The most interesting is One of Many. Switching classes is not only interesting in gameplay, but also makes sense character-wise. One of Many is quite unique being and made me think of Grieving Mother from PoE, but with darker twist. It's nice to put in your party something completely different from usuall choice of dwarven warriors and elven mages. Okku is more straight-forward as single class warrior, but being giant rainbow bear with unbreakable oath he's also far from generic. Kaelyn has pretty unique motivation too. Good characters - especially religiously devoted - tend to protect status quo; they are rather defenders than attackers. Kaelyn, on the other hand, tries to, well, upset the balance of the cosmos, while being super moral and good. I quite liked that. Safiya offers interesting twist about her, despite looking like normal Thayan wizard the first time we see her, and is beautifully tied to main plot. Gann was probably my least favourite, but it's simply because others are *so* good. He is fine companion - I especially enjoyed banter with him and his snarks, even if sometimes it costed me influence.
Story itself... Well. I'm not sure I would call it "brilliant", but it's good. It's very good. I respect that it has one motif of a mask, and game is consistent with it. It gives the story cohesive feel. We start in a theatre (with mask symbol upon entrance), encounter masked witches. Finally, we learn that *we* are the mask for something else. It kinda feels like writer took topic of Bhaalspawn taint, but treated it super-seriously and made it central focus of the story. There are obvious similarities - in both cases the biggest enemy of character is the character themself, both protagonists suffer from lack of soul and must get it back. Slayer seemed like unrefined draft of Spirit-eater curse (not that there is something wrong with SoA - these two are very different games).
The most interesting thing about plot is that almost every character we encounter is driven by love. Akachi loved the woman so much he betrayed his own god. She loved him so much she decided to inflict this terrible curse upon our character. Araman loved his brother and it leads him to terrible things. It's hard not to feel sorry for everyone involved - except from Myrkul, of course. He is just insufferable sadist and getting rid of him may have been the only good thing my character has done.
I love that story is very much about Faithless and the Wall - it's a single piece of Forgotten Realms lore that's the most uncomfortable for me. It really doesn't seem that fair, so I can totally see the point of Crusade. And idea of your soul simply dissolving there is very scary for me. It works in games favour - Faceless Man, as embodiment of mindless insatiable hunger is scary. His fate as wandering void is scary. Being offered to master that hunger is terrifying, but feels proper for very evil and very powerful character. There is one more thing game did very well - most encounters actually feel like epic-level. Sure, there are some inexplicably overpowered berserkers and gnolls, but most of the time it makes sense for enemies to be so powerful.

Overall - great campaign, and I wanted to share my thoughts with you. :)
Wandering_MinstrelArdanisKuronabatoorFinneousPJThacoBellGirewan

Comments

  • Wandering_MinstrelWandering_Minstrel Member Posts: 197
    Were you able to devour Gann's soul before the end of the game? I wanted to make some amulet where you create it by devouring all of your companion's souls but I could never lose enough influence with Gann for him to turn on me so I could kill him.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    Artona said:

    ...and I'm sickened. With myself. I went the most evil, cruel, ruthless route. I devoured every soul and spirit I could encounter - including Okku, my companions, Founder, and everybody else. Eventually only One of Many remained at my side.

    You ate... Kaelyn??!?! You... you sick... MONSTER! :'(

    So in the end I managed to become some anti-god eldritch abomination and man - I feel like I need to take a shower right now. I do not know RPG campaign that would unnerve me like MotB did; only comparable situation was pen-and-pencil roleplay I had few years ago (funnily, it was pretty similar - my character had wraith dog and I ordered him to eat soul of child that trusted me; after that I couldn't sleep because of bad conscience; good times!).
    There definitely should be more plots in games where you can be not a typical cartoon psychopath, but actually evil, sickeningly deplorable scum. Somehow it motivates to do something good in the real world.
    LadyRhian
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    First playthrough I ended up backstabbing Kaelyn by siding against the Crusade just because I hated her. It felt soooo good.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,295
    I just wish there had been a way to go through with the Crusade... whether you like Kaelyn or not, she is right. That wall is an abomination.
    ArdanisThacoBellKurona
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    It's one of those rare ones for sure. Glad you liked it. Atmosphere is unmatched as well. Sure it may not look great, but the areas feel great,especially mulsantir.

    Amusing thing is when you find out who the narrator has been the entire time as well.

    Yeah takes some clever writers to think of the narrative ideas presented in motb.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Ammar said:

    I just wish there had been a way to go through with the Crusade... whether you like Kaelyn or not, she is right. That wall is an abomination.

    If I recall correctly, the devs didn't think the license holder (was it WotC at the time?) would let them.
    Kurona
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    I've read that as well and think it's such a waste because there don't seem to be any mention of the Wall in later editions, almost like it never existed to begin with.
    megamike15ThacoBell
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    edited January 2019
    Isn't it great? Mask of the Betrayer has the best evil character role-playing of all time in my opinion. Really makes you feel like you're a twisted and cruel, nearly unstoppable sociopath. Not a good feeling by any means, but man it hits you like a ton of bricks, especially if you go in unprepared.

    Did you get the Amulet of Betrayal Personified by any chance? The description of it alone is worth it.
    ArdanisWandering_MinstrelFlashburn
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    Kurona said:

    First playthrough I ended up backstabbing Kaelyn by siding against the Crusade just because I hated her. It felt soooo good.

    how can you hate fall from grace 2.0.
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    edited January 2019

    Isn't it great? Mask of the Betrayer has the best evil character role-playing of all time in my opinion. Really makes you feel like you're a twisted and cruel, nearly unstoppable sociopath. Not a good feeling by any means, but man it hits you like a ton of bricks, especially if you go in unprepared.

    Did you get the Amulet of Betrayal Personified by any chance? The description of it alone is worth it.

    I haven't done it myself, but I wouldn't recommend it.... https://www.gog.com/forum/neverwinter_nights_series/nwn2_motb_how_to_solo_motb_devour_all_your_companions_and_forge_the_amulet_of_betrayal_personifi


    You basically have to meta-roleplay the entire game to get it and you'll miss out on a lot of stuff. Could be due to a number of bugs with the spirit eater feat as well, since I'm not sure its actually supposed to be like that..But that's just my guess.

    You don't need that to personify absolute betrayal. It's far better taking your companions into the final cutscene and watch as it unfolds.. depending on what path you've chosen during the course of the game^^
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    Kurona said:

    I've read that as well and think it's such a waste because there don't seem to be any mention of the Wall in later editions, almost like it never existed to begin with.

    yeah that was the reason. they did not want to mess with canon by destroying the wall.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Artona Have you played Knights of the Old Republic? It has a pretty decent evil path as well. Some of the worse stuff include:

    1. Forcing two lifelong companions to kill each other.
    2. Stealing the number 2 of the big bad by convincing them that you are so much worse
    3. You can pull other people to evil with you
    4. You can actually betray and backstab your companions
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    ThacoBell said:

    @Artona Have you played Knights of the Old Republic? It has a pretty decent evil path as well. Some of the worse stuff include:

    1. Forcing two lifelong companions to kill each other.
    2. Stealing the number 2 of the big bad by convincing them that you are so much worse
    3. You can pull other people to evil with you
    4. You can actually betray and backstab your companions

    pst also has a pretty nice evil path. it seems like if chris has a hand in the game the evil path won't been cartoony evil.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Does that mean Chris is secretly Evil and wants to seduce people to the... Dark Side?!
    ThacoBell
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    Kotor 2 is a bloody mess though, even with all of the restored content..I like it, but it's a bloody mess:P

    There are similarities between some of the characters and content in Pst, motb and kotor 2 though, so I'm pretty sure Chris had a hand in all of it. But I think George Ziets was the creative lead on MotB.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    @Artona I strongly recommend a mod called Path of Evil.

    And yes, MotB is a masterpiece. Too bad it is packed inside NWN2's hideous and clumsy engine and controls.

    Your report about PnP character made me remember of a Malkavian I played once. He was so evil that it disturbed me (the guy trained to shoot and kill other people) and I had to let him go and get another character.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    batoor said:

    Kotor 2 is a bloody mess though, even with all of the restored content..I like it, but it's a bloody mess:P

    There are similarities between some of the characters and content in Pst, motb and kotor 2 though, so I'm pretty sure Chris had a hand in all of it. But I think George Ziets was the creative lead on MotB.

    chris was lead on kotor 2 and pst and alot of pst was included in kotor 2 as his idea for kriea was " what if ravel was a party member?"

    he did some characters in motb not sure which besides maybe gan and Kaelyn as they feel very similar to say morte/atton and fall from grace.
    ThacoBell
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    Pretty sure he only wrote Kaelyn.
    megamike15
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Certainly explains why she's so preachy and sanctimonious.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    edited January 2019
    that makes the fact you can't take down the wall worse. if she was chris's mouth piece like alot of his later characters then he must have very anti wall.

    well everyone should be anti wall there is no reason for that thing to still be standing.

    and the wall is still there in later editions it's just not out right said it's there in manuals for 4th editon. but wotc has never said it is gone either.
    ThacoBell
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    Whoa. Thanks for response, y'all! :)
    I did not manage to get Gann to attack me until after dealing with Faceless Man, @Wandering_Minstrel. I think that there is bug of some sort, because I even used console to lower influence with him to -80. He simply left and I was able to recruit him again in The Veil. So unfortunately I couldn't make the amulet, @WarChiefZeke.
    On the bright side - I got to use final spirit powers on Gann and that was pretty amazing. In a "oh God I created a monster" kind of way. :p

    @ThacoBell - yeah, I played both KotOR and KotOR II, but as a good two-shoes Jedi, Luke Skywalker kind of character. I'll try one day as a Sith though. Also I thin that there are definitely some similarities between The Exile and The Spirit-Eater.
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