Making arrows consistent throughout BG EE 1 and 2

Ludwig_II

Hi all,

As per title, I saw some discussions from years ago, but I couldn't find any solution to the inconsistency of arrows throughout the games.

In BG1 and SOD, the fire/ice/acid/piercing arrows all have more bonus damage. Also, fire arrows have higher enchantment and thus better thac0 (+2 compared to 0)

In addition, +1/+2/+3 arrows in BG2 have no damage bonus, though in BG1 they have. In BG2 enchantment bonuses just do not get added to damage for arrows.

If it was the other way around, like if they were better in BG2 then it would make more sense. Considering in BG1 ranged attacks are more powerful and in BG2 melee rules, the way it is now doesn't make any sense to me. I'm happy with balancing it either way as long as it is consistent, making them the way they are in BG1 or BG2 for both games. Though I think using BG2 versions for BG1 is the better option in terms of game balance.

So my question is, are there any ways/mods to achieve this consistency? I feel like this kind of a mod could be a great addition to Tweaks Antology.

Thanks

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Ludwig_II

Unfortunately, Tweaks Anthology does not seem to have this yet. I also thought I would find it there, and was surprised it's not.

I'll check Item Revisions. Thanks

sarevok57

actually the reason why ranged attacks rule in bg1 is because of the extra bonuses they have compared to bg2

in bg2 they reduced all the damages to help balance out the madness that is ranged weaponry, but even with that said, ranged weaponry is still great in bg2 and in my personal honest opinion it is not really necessary to give the bg2 ammunition it's bg1 stats

that would make something that is already on the border of way too good too being overwhelmingly too good

but then again, that's just my opinion and sometimes my opinion ain't worth squat haha

Ludwig_II

I agree with you, and that's why it's the better option to give bg2 stats to bg1 ammunition instead. Because ranged attacks are really overpowered in BG1 and SOD.

@CamDawg Do you think it's possible to include such a tweak in Tweaks Anthology?

AndreaColombo

aTWEAKS has a component that restores bonus damage to enchanted arrows as per P&P rules, IIRC.

CamDawg

AndreaColombo wrote: »

aTWEAKS has a component that restores bonus damage to enchanted arrows as per P&P rules, IIRC.

If I'm reading it right, though, @Ludwig_II wants the opposite--the BG2 style, no-damage-bonus arrows.

It can be done, sure. I've added it to the idea thread.

Ludwig_II

Great! Thanks a lot @AndreaColombo

At least there is some tweak that's been implemented. I think that aTweaks component is quite good, and makes the BG2 part more consistent with BG1. So I think the way it is in BG2 using that aTweaks component looks balanced to me. Like this, the enchanted arrows become as they are in BG1 and so better than BG2 unmodded version. But, elemental arrows are still quite worse than BG1 in terms of damage. Now if we could use this BG2 version of elemental arrows in BG1 and SOD as well with a mod, I think that would be the best as I feel like BG1 elemental arrows need nerfing.

To compare:
Acid arrows in BG1: 1d6+1 +2d6 acid damage. In BG2: 1d6 +1d3 acid damage (another +1 with aTweaks)
Fire arrows in BG1: 1d6+2 +1d6 fire damage. In BG2: 1d6 +1d2 fire damage
Ice arrows in BG1: 1d6 +1d6 cold damage. In BG2: 1d6 +1d2 cold damage

What do you guys think? Which version would you prefer?

Thanks for adding this to the idea thread @CamDawg. Hopefully I'm not the only one that wants this.

Grammarsalad

Here you go:

http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/atweaks

Edit: strange. I thought you were asking for a link.. Anyway, I'll just leave it. Doesn't hurt

Ludwig_II

Does anyone know which version of elemental arrows and bolts does EET use?
BG1 version or BG2? I don't have enough space in my computer to install and check.

Skatan

I think it would be better if one could only load up higher level enchanted arrows in a higher level enchanted ranged weapon. So a normal bow can only fire normal arrows, a +1 bow fire +1 arrows etc. In BG2 everyone and their mother gets 21, 22+ STR which add a ton of damage, but bow users are stuck and only Ranger Archers get + damage from their kit skills. The meager damage from arrows in BG2, where they are more needed than in BG1, would be a welcome addition according to my own personal beliefs. So, I would have preferred to see more enchanted arrows, just like you see shops with normal, +1, +2, +3 weapons in most weapon categories as you progress in the game, you should see similar for arrows. The elemental damage though, I think BG2 has a better balance of. Really, the 2D6 acid arrows in BG1 is just too overwhelmingly good. Imoen with a crappy bow doing equal or more damage than Dorn is... odd. :P They should have been like 1D4 or D6 or something similar.

Just some random ramblings from someone who enjoy to employ ranged weaponry also in BG2.

Ammar

sarevok57 wrote: »

actually the reason why ranged attacks rule in bg1 is because of the extra bonuses they have compared to bg2

in bg2 they reduced all the damages to help balance out the madness that is ranged weaponry, but even with that said, ranged weaponry is still great in bg2 and in my personal honest opinion it is not really necessary to give the bg2 ammunition it's bg1 stats

that would make something that is already on the border of way too good too being overwhelmingly too good

but then again, that's just my opinion and sometimes my opinion ain't worth squat haha

That is only part of it. Other factors that play a role is that melee combat is especially deadly in early BG 1 & also the extra attack that bows get is relatively more useful before fighters get all their full attacks per round. But especially at the end of BG 1, the better arrows are indeed an important factor.

In original BG 1 it was even more pronounced, due to slower movement speed. On the hand, the small arrow stacks were a real annoyance factor.

Ludwig_II

I am writing this in case anyone else is interested. I just found out there is actually a mod that does what I was looking for, making BG1 elemental arrows as they are in BG2.

SCS apparently has a component for that. The following is taken from SCS readme:

Make elemental arrows like BG2 (TUTU,BGEE)

The arrows of Fire, Ice and Acid in BG are seriously powerful in terms of damage done - much more so than their equivalents in BG2, presumably because the designers chose to tone it down a bit. This component applies a similar tonedown to BG.

It also removes (undocumented, save in EE) bonuses to hit and damage for Fire Arrows.

So, I will use this SCS elemental arrows component for BG1, and aTweaks enchanted arrows component for BG2. I think arrows in both games will be much more balanced this way.

DreadKhan

Hmm... this would have made my solo swashbuckler that relied on short bows a much harder run, as I ran through a great plurality of acid arrows to help with any fight even remotely challenging, and eventually just used only them. Was funny taking out Gibberlings with acid arrows, but I bought pretty much all of them.

Iirc, that was how I killed all the tough bosses actually, them and dispel arrows as needed.