Who do I leave behind in hell for YOUKNOWWHO?
TraumaDrama
Member Posts: 56
So I finally got to ToB and I'd really like to take on YOUKNOWWHO for the RP, but I've been loving my party's balance, though I suspect there may be some things I don't know.
My party:
Me, a cavalier dual wielding FoA and Foebane or the mage-killing axe
Jaheira, dual wielding blackblood and belm
Valygar, dual wielding Celestial Fury and his family mage-killin katana
Keldorn, with carsomyr and firetooth crossbow when needed
Aerie, with Staff of magi
Imoen with Shortbow of Gesen and Short sword of Mask
1. I'm between ditching Keldorn and Valygar. Am I aiming at the right people?
Argument for keeping Keldorn: I know having two paladins is redundant, but I like having him on carsomyr and firing off those true sights and dispel magics, which frees me to use everything else, including that paladin bastard sword I hope to soon get. Whosoever uses Carsomyr uses nothing else.
Argument for keeping Valygar: He's unique to my party and quite malleable. I can sneak him in, backstab with katanas, and either chunk or really mess up the toughest mage before they stoneskin. I can stick him on the front line with armor of faith and go to town with the Impaler, which has typically made him one of my biggest damage dealers, or I can keep him in the back with the Mana Bow. I also have Ring of Kangaxx on him, so that improved haste + Celestial Fury and few enemies get more than a few hits out.
I lose Keldorn, I lose how I've been fighting mages, and will have to put pips in my guy to properly wield Carsomyr, and find someone else to put pips for FoA.
I lose Valygar, I lose my celestial fury stuns, backstabbery, and will have to put pips in someone for spears cuz I heard Ixils is amazing.
2. Which leads me to my second question in this long rant. If I've done the first 2 floors of Watchers's Keep, how feasible is dualing YOUKNOWWHO to thief, without cheating, to get some backstabbing, trap HLAs, and Use Any Item? At one point does backstabbing become impossible in ToB? And can Detect Illusion replace True Sight?
TL:DR Pros and Cons of ditching Valygar or Keldorn for YOUKNOWWHO and is dualing that person to thief worth it?
My party:
Me, a cavalier dual wielding FoA and Foebane or the mage-killing axe
Jaheira, dual wielding blackblood and belm
Valygar, dual wielding Celestial Fury and his family mage-killin katana
Keldorn, with carsomyr and firetooth crossbow when needed
Aerie, with Staff of magi
Imoen with Shortbow of Gesen and Short sword of Mask
1. I'm between ditching Keldorn and Valygar. Am I aiming at the right people?
Argument for keeping Keldorn: I know having two paladins is redundant, but I like having him on carsomyr and firing off those true sights and dispel magics, which frees me to use everything else, including that paladin bastard sword I hope to soon get. Whosoever uses Carsomyr uses nothing else.
Argument for keeping Valygar: He's unique to my party and quite malleable. I can sneak him in, backstab with katanas, and either chunk or really mess up the toughest mage before they stoneskin. I can stick him on the front line with armor of faith and go to town with the Impaler, which has typically made him one of my biggest damage dealers, or I can keep him in the back with the Mana Bow. I also have Ring of Kangaxx on him, so that improved haste + Celestial Fury and few enemies get more than a few hits out.
I lose Keldorn, I lose how I've been fighting mages, and will have to put pips in my guy to properly wield Carsomyr, and find someone else to put pips for FoA.
I lose Valygar, I lose my celestial fury stuns, backstabbery, and will have to put pips in someone for spears cuz I heard Ixils is amazing.
2. Which leads me to my second question in this long rant. If I've done the first 2 floors of Watchers's Keep, how feasible is dualing YOUKNOWWHO to thief, without cheating, to get some backstabbing, trap HLAs, and Use Any Item? At one point does backstabbing become impossible in ToB? And can Detect Illusion replace True Sight?
TL:DR Pros and Cons of ditching Valygar or Keldorn for YOUKNOWWHO and is dualing that person to thief worth it?
1
Comments
Heck, I might ditch him anyway, but it does look out of balance that way.
Being totally honest, I wouldn't mess up a party you are clearly enjoying. Do you need Mr ToB?
There's no other npc in the entire game that i would be more likely to entrust my life to.. real life or in game xD
this actually reminds me way back in the day when i had a fighter dualled over to mage charname and keldorn was my main two handed weapon tank, then he got upset when i turned into the ravager against wraith sarevok and he didn't like that, i didn't like his attitude, then keldorn went hostile, i cleaned the floor of his holiness
it was actually almost convenient it happened, because just a few battles away there was someone there that could replace him, and it worked out perfectly because all the items that keldornious was wearing went to you know who and it was glorious, ah good times
but remember you know who makes in oath where he can't betray charname and you know who makes a good selling point that he is useful with his sword, and when it comes down to business if you have to use someone of a said alignment to help spread your lawful goodness and you know they won't betray you, perhaps you might turn the other cheek
one way you could role play it is that your charname is actually going to try and redeem you know who for their misdeeds and perhaps one day will change the way on how you know who thinks about the world hence the possible redemption, even though charname doesn't know about the redemption, its a nice little RP element that would justify a paladin bring you know who along
So you have to either lie (yeah, sure, I'll take you along later, just not today), and then RP the Int17 guy to be sufficiently naive to believe you - or you need to murder him.
Or you can just babysit him by taking him along and making sure he does good whenever he wants to do bad and making him go through daily smiling practice sessions.
I agree with all of you but if the OP really likes his party as it is "I don't trust you" is a pretty valid reason to reject him for a Paladin. Iirc in 2e travelling with Evil characters could be grounds for losing paladinhood under most circumstances.
Oh. And @TraumaDrama. If you do end up taking Big S. along keep Valygar. He has some interesting banter with him about redemption and second chances instead of being self-righteous.
He knows how shit works, and the cataclysmic events that are about to unfold are far beyond any one mans convictions.. Hell, i'd bet even Drizzt would show him mercy and take him along.
He did with Artemis Entreri.
Besides.. two paladins and one murdering maniac together, what could possibly go wrong?
In any case, i'd say taking Voldemort along for the ride is worth it especially if it's your first time, as he will actually explain several things and give you more of the complete story that you might miss out on otherwise.
If you really want him, I'd drop Valygar. Both Valy and Keldorn offer some anti-magery, but Keldorn's is more reliant. Valy's corthala family blade though is a true beast of a weapon. The bleed damage is almost too good and enchantment level doesn't matter as much vs mages.
That's actually great advice if I thought I'd be doing multiple playthroughs. It will probably be a few years before I play through again.
Well, there's a reason so many of us in here play the game over and over - it's addictive. Who knows, maybe you will as well?
At one point does backstabbing become impossible in ToB?
And can Detect Illusion replace True Sight?
You can work with Detect Illusion and no True Sight, but True Sight (or any spell of the kind) is better in two ways: a) better range b) can be cast at any time of your choosing, rather than only working at the start of a round)
I'm currently running a playthrough with just Detect Illusions, but I have backups, in case something goes wrong. Since you have multiple spellcasters with you, having a backup shouldn't be a problem though.
Finally, IF I were to dual Voldemort, he starts out ready to level up to 18. Should I level him, and then dual, making it one more level to get in order to get him back to fighter, or should I level him at 17, wasting an insane amount of experience? Not sure I understand the game mechanics to make this call.
Doesn't he get stuck in hell?
The real weapon of thieves in Throne of Bhaal is the HLA traps. These things are ungodly powerful and unless you're fighting in a cramped room you can even set them during a battle.
He does. You've already started the expansion so he'll stay inside the Pocket Plane until the end of the game.
lvl 17 fighter = 2.250000xp
lvl 18 fighter = 2.500000xp
lvl 35 thief = 5.500000xp
lvl 36 thief = 5.720000xp
xp cap is 8.000000xp
2.5m+5.5m=8m
2.25m+5.72=7.97m
So your options are 17->36 and 18->35
Level 18 fighter gives another proficiency point pip, but if you're gonna have him use the carsomyr he won't need it, as he is already maxed in two handed iirc.
Keep in mind that if you add Prof.Points as thief, for weapons he already has Prof.Points in BEFORE re-activating fighter class, those points are gone forever.
Place only in different weapons.
The BEST way however, is to NOT level him up from lvl 1 thief, until you have 1.76m xp as thief (level 18 - given you dualed at 17). This way, when you level up you reactivate Fighter class and can distribute your thief prof points as a Fighter, and can go all the way on one weapon.. instead of having to spend 1 wasted pip on several different weapon types you'll never use.
It's a bit boring yes, to wait with leveling up like that.. but 1.76m xp goes fast in ToB and a singleclass thief far below everyone else in levels regardless of lvling up as you go, is extremely underwhelming.
If you dual him, you'll be carrying him for the entire time until he gets his class back either way.
But as i said, 1.76m xp goes very fast.. especially if you have watchers keep to do still.
I think what I'm trying to figure out is, which is more fun? Just having a straight fighter, or training a former Bhaalspawn to be a trapsetter who must hide in the back, throwing his wittle boomerang knife? Or will that just be annoying? And does he not get to play with the trap HLAs til too late in the game to really have fun with them?
other than that i NEVER back stab any enemy afterwards, so if you are worried about losing backstab potential i wouldn't worry about it
He won't have fighter HLA, like whirlwind and hardiness, but you have two other paladins for that.. and the whirlwinds last so short i barely ever use them anyway.
And for people who don't dualwield, Greater Whirlwind is an amazing increase in fighting power. It may just last a single round, but oh boy, you can accomplish a lot in that round.
So both Sarevok's offense and his defense will be crippled. That is not to say that Fighter->Thief dualclasses are bad. But you have to play them as FTs, not fighters.
I don't see how he would contribute more to the party with a third set of warrior hla, instead of 2 warrior hla tables and 1 thief hla..
Especially as he has no other char with thief hla.. spike traps, timestop traps, uai.. there's a lot of juicy stuff there, and it would give the char a whole other dimension of powers instead of being just the third warrior.
Edit:
Also, there's a massive value to having a frontliner with Find Trap ability turned on at all times.
We who have played the game a billion times know where all the traps are and can just bring out Imoen for when we know there's one comming.
Having the char upfront and searching would be a huge utility/quality of life.
So yeah.. F->T seems an obvious choice.