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Cleric/Thief kits

GladdiusGladdius Member Posts: 5
Going to do a trilogy run on insane difficulty, limiting myself to only reloading if I wipe. Wanting to play a Cleric thief multi and will EEkeeper one of these kits. Any pro tips for the character would be appreciated.

/Edited for typos

Cleric/Thief kits 20 votes

Swashbuckler
35%
SceptenarThacoBellDreadKhanStummvonBordwehrRik_KirtaniyaWarChiefZekeVseslav 7 votes
Priest of Lathander
45%
JLeesmady3jsavingArdulSkatanTorgrimmerPhoenix_VIIGladdiusrealshemp 9 votes
Bounty Hunter
20%
DJKajuruRaduzielhockmah2Adam_en_tium 4 votes
Post edited by Gladdius on
Skatan

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 8,140
    Swashbuckler
    BUCKLE THEM SWASHES!

    StummvonBordwehr
  • TorgrimmerTorgrimmer Member Posts: 314
    Priest of Lathander
    Heal'em up baby

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,654
    Swashbuckler
    Swashbucklers are pretty strong, though Bounty Hunter traps are savage. I am playing a swash to cleric dual, and while I haven't yet regained my thief skills, I am a pretty strong fighter, though unless I use speed weapons ofc I have apr issues. When all is said and done, I think my PC will be a great fighter, with 25 levels of swashbuckler giving some real bonus'. I'll still have spec in scimitars and DWing, so I will often have 4.5 apr late, and cleric buffs will make for some nice self-buffs.

    The swashie offers a lot of synergy imo, but not getting spec in scimitars will be annoying, but you can always just use a speed weapon offhand for an extra apr.

  • GladdiusGladdius Member Posts: 5
    Priest of Lathander
    I'm curious to see what people's thoughts are on their PoL votes? How does the boon compare to swashbuckler?

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 3,882
    edited February 14
    Priest of Lathander
    DreadKhan wrote: »
    Swashbucklers are pretty strong, though Bounty Hunter traps are savage. I am playing a swash to cleric dual, and while I haven't yet regained my thief skills, I am a pretty strong fighter, though unless I use speed weapons ofc I have apr issues. When all is said and done, I think my PC will be a great fighter, with 25 levels of swashbuckler giving some real bonus'. I'll still have spec in scimitars and DWing, so I will often have 4.5 apr late, and cleric buffs will make for some nice self-buffs.

    The swashie offers a lot of synergy imo, but not getting spec in scimitars will be annoying, but you can always just use a speed weapon offhand for an extra apr.

    Though I gotta admit, I like the idea of this, it relies on a very long route of dualing to get UAI before you can dual to Cleric and then regain your swashies pips in Scimitars.

    @Gladdius, just as an FYI, even by editing the thief kit to swashie in EEkeeper will not let you put points in dualwielding nor in slashing weapons like scimitars. If you want to use that you will have to manually edit the proficiency points every time you level up to simulate the proficiences of a swashie. The C/T base choices override the kit abilities in this case (meaning, the cleric's inability to use slashing weapons and to put more than 1 pip in weapon styles). This is when you multiclass, as per what you wrote in your post.

    Boon of Lathander, however, will be available early, add APR and let's you use the standard C/T weapon choices. So my suggestion is to stick to blunt weapons, go for staff if you want to backstab or for maces/flails etc if you want to "flail away" in melee (ho ho ho). Dualwielding with a halforc and all the juice STR enhancing buffs from Cleric will let you negate much of the penalties from dualwielding without proper pips, though I would rather focus on two-handed and focus on quarterstaffs (and switch to a onehanded weapon and shield if/when needed).

    Edit: Btw, another FYI - you don't get the HLA's from Swashie (WW) by adding the kit afterwards in Keeper and by going multiclass the ability buffs is "only" +3 (THAC0/damage) by the time you get HLA's ('cept AC). +3 is still good of course.

    Gladdiussubtledoctor
  • GladdiusGladdius Member Posts: 5
    Priest of Lathander
    @Skatan thank you!! It seems that was a very insightful look into the situation. I did not know that about the kit basically not working right in EE after asking it. I'm not one to take that much effort. Also people seem to think APR is going to be my weakness and BoL helps with that.

    I'll just use the Priest kit and focus on quarterstaves. Strongest backstabs are a bonus.

    And i can possibly even DW flails late.

    Skatan
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 3,882
    Priest of Lathander
    Glad to be of assistance. And also, please allow me to welcome you to this forum. I hope you'll enjoy your stay (and your playthrough!).

    Cheers mate.

    TorgrimmerJLeeJuliusBorisov
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 428
    Priest of Lathander
    APR is the most glaring weakness of a cleric/thief and PoL is the only kit that does much to address it, so that would be my vote. I'd imagine the kind of uber-character you're envisioning would play something like a divine version of the blade.

    SkatanGreenWarlock
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 3,849
    Do the kit bonuses for swashie work if you start a character off as a single class swashie and then use EEKeeper to edit to multi-class swashie/cleric?

    Skatan
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 3,882
    Priest of Lathander
    @Balrog99 Partly. The pips in dualwielding stay, but switching to C/T after starting as a SC Swashie gives the character the C/T proficiencies, meaning only blunt weapons. It's a good way to get dual wielding proficienes (damn, that's a hard word to spell correctly!) though.

    Balrog99
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 428
    Priest of Lathander
    For uber-characters like this one that are designed to be a lot stronger than the rules allow, it may make more sense to just manually give yourself the pips, APR, etc you want. Or just go FMT if you want to combine melee DPS/durability with casting/thieving.

  • GladdiusGladdius Member Posts: 5
    Priest of Lathander
    For those Interested. I decided to go Gnome, with the Priest of Lathander. I took 1 pip in sling and another in Q-staves. I am not trying to like uber power game, and I just try to do things that are possible in the dual class world but as a multi class (so i take less end game power with more average power through the whole game) instead of spending 3/4 the game stuck in one class of a Dual class.

    I rolled a 91 (after like a few hundred rerolls) and got:
    STR 18
    CON 16
    DEX 18
    WIS 17
    INT 11
    CHA 12


    thanks again everyone

    Skatan
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,372
    For proficiencies and HLAs to work properly, you need a proper C/T kit, not a single-class kit grafted on to a multiclass character. Mods can give you real multiclass C/T kits - specifically, "Deities of Faerun" and "Faiths & Powers." The latter even lets you play a druid/thief! ;)

    RaduzielDreadKhanSkatanStummvonBordwehr
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 3,882
    edited February 15
    Priest of Lathander
    @Gladdius Looks good. A word of advice though, shorties get +saves from CON over 16 even if they don't get +HP (for non-warrior classes), so having 18 CON and ie 10 CHA would given you +1 extra saves vs Wands and Spells. In the long run it doesn't matter, so don't let this stop your run though.

    Saves:
    16 CON: 10/10/12/16/11
    18 CON: 10/9/12/16/10

    With 18 CON you could also use a certain item which is cursed and reduce your CON by -2 without a penalty to HP. But it's not essential in anyway, so don't let this stop you from playing your character as it is.

  • GladdiusGladdius Member Posts: 5
    Priest of Lathander
    I'm still not sure how to install mods. If anyone knows a good guide on them that would be awesome. Either way, I'm going to investigate it after this run I think.

  • JLEJLE Member Posts: 40
    edited February 21
    Cleric/Thief is one of those really annoying multi hybrids where both the restrictions really work against each other.

    This is because priestly limits on weapons (cleric or druid) override everything else, no matter what else you dual-class or multi-class it with. Thieves are often at their best with swords and daggers, but a cleric-thief can't use them. EVER. Not even after you get your thief abilities back (if you dual from swashbuckler). If you put proficiency points in them as a swashbuckler, they'll be completely wasted forever when you switch to cleric.

    (Hence, also, the fact that Anomen (in BG 2) is short by a couple of weapon proficiencies: according to his backstory, when he was a pure warrior, he fought with the spearmen in the army, so his missing proficiencies are wasted on spears that he can no longer use, now that he has dual-classed to cleric.)

    Meanwhile, you can't Backstab with a weapon that isn't suitable for a thief. A fighter-thief can't backstab with a two-handed sword, a cleric-thief can't do it with a mace or morning star... Which pretty much limits you to Clubs if you want to do sneak attacks, since they're pretty much the only 1-handed weapon that can be used by both classes and is suitable for Backstab attacks.

    Meanwhile, a Cleric normally CAN wear good armour, and at least has enough HP and a good enough AC to run as a front-line meat shield and take the heat off your fighters, even though he can't fight as well in the front line as some, there's always Draw Upon Holy Might, Holy Power and at a pinch Spiritual Hammer... But, as a Thief, you can't wear the armour if you expect to be able to use your thief skills, and you're also handicapped by thief levels of hit dice alongside the cleric levels. Hence, Tiax and Glint (plain BG:EE and BGEE:SoD respectively) can both be pretty weak. Playing through SoD over the last few weeks, I decided to try out Glint, and one of the hardest things was to keep him alive.

    I guess if you actually need to fight, it's clubs and slings, the best shield you can get hold of (at least clerics can use all shields, and shields don't interfere with thief abilities), and try to get hold of the Shadowmaster Armor or The Night's Gift when you can - or a set of elven chain, although that reduces your thief abilities a bit, at least you CAN use them in it - and be a caster-cleric from the back lines when it comes to fighting, except when backstabbing.

    If anything, a Druid-Thief would be a nicer multi-class if it was legal (you'd be allowed scimitars to backstab with, at least, and could use darts as well as slings for ranged attacks), but it isn't allowed.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 428
    edited February 22
    Priest of Lathander
    Sometimes you see people multiclass as cleric/thief because they see clerics and thieves as mandatory "wastes" of slots and figure at least being a cleric/thief will cut in half the number of slots they "lose". A few people actually like the combination and say there are often-overlooked synergies, though I'd argue there are way, way more synergies with FT/FC/MT/FMC/FMT than there are with CT.

    Post edited by jsaving on
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 1
    The cleric/thief is not a great choice in video games. Tabletop, on the other hand, they are incredible if played properly. A friend of mine played one years ago. Drew upon Friar Tuck as inspiration. As a cleric he blended in to normal society and could move about gathering information...and the occasional goodie pouch. Not typically violent, but the unexpected bash to the back of a nosy guards skull could be forgiven by the gods.
    Oh, and hello all, being new and all.

    RaduzielSkatan
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