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Watchknight Crypt + Turn Undead

enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 499
in Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
I was there with my solo F/M/C whose cleric level was like 26. Now, overleveled cleric vs. undead is nothing short of slaughter... except, apparently, two of the monster types down there couldn't be turned, namely revenants and skeleton warriors. Everything else, including the guards in the castle later, could be turned. And I mean insta-splat turned. Nobody ever ran, they just got destroyed. Except these revenants and skeleton warriors. They never ran either, they acted like non-undead or just undead way too high level for me, and neither explanation makes sense.

If this weren't EE I'd say the devs had a whoopsie moment and I need to get a fixpack, but...

On a different note, is there a scroll of Protection from Magic Energy anywhere in IWD? The level 6 wizard spell.

Comments

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    Revenants are immune to TU per PnP rules.

    Skeleton Warrior seems an oversight from the devs. Only the summoned ones should be immune to it, but SKELWAR.CRE is also immune.
  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 499
    Thanks. But are you saying all summoned undead should be unturnable, or just skeleton warriors specifically? Because I can turn my own undead summons, though I've only used the level 3 priest spell to create them, and it raises zombies and small skeletons, not warriors.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    enqenq wrote: »
    Thanks. But are you saying all summoned undead should be unturnable, or just skeleton warriors specifically? Because I can turn my own undead summons, though I've only used the level 3 priest spell to create them, and it raises zombies and small skeletons, not warriors.

    Looking at the game's code I can see that the summoned skeleton warriors are immune to TU, but probably it is just them then.
  • AerichAerich Member Posts: 273
    Revenants are some kind of special case. I agree skeleton warriors makes no sense, and their magic resistance made them a real pain for my solo C/M on HoF - they were worse than greater mummies. But hey, at least EE lets crypt things be turned/exploded, which was not the case pre-EE.

    I believe there is only one PFME scroll - look at Edion's inventory on BI, or the shop in Lonelywood.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    @enqenq The attached file should fix this issue (you'll need a save from before entering the area).

    Just unzip it at your Override folder if you wish to.
  • StromaelStromael Member Posts: 195
    edited March 2019
    enqenq wrote: »
    I was there with my solo F/M/C whose cleric level was like 26. Now, overleveled cleric vs. undead is nothing short of slaughter... except, apparently, two of the monster types down there couldn't be turned, namely revenants and skeleton warriors. Everything else, including the guards in the castle later, could be turned. And I mean insta-splat turned. Nobody ever ran, they just got destroyed. Except these revenants and skeleton warriors. They never ran either, they acted like non-undead or just undead way too high level for me, and neither explanation makes sense.

    If this weren't EE I'd say the devs had a whoopsie moment and I need to get a fixpack, but...
    Aerich wrote: »
    Revenants are some kind of special case. I agree skeleton warriors makes no sense, and their magic resistance made them a real pain for my solo C/M on HoF - they were worse than greater mummies. But hey, at least EE lets crypt things be turned/exploded, which was not the case pre-EE.

    I politely have to disagree with all the flak aimed at the pre-EE game. My level 25 Cleric was happily turning Revenants, Crypt Things and Skeleton Warriors in classic IWD. (Indeed, once he reached level 30 he was insta-splatting all of them.) See my screenshots:
    u61zei77hezh.bmp
    gk0p7npvwo8x.bmp
    to8pzq5kku95.bmp
    mbq1t9zbrae7.bmp
    ea71lj4659ow.bmp
    In the third picture he'd just got teleported, but you can see from the combat log that in that split second he also 'sploded one of the CTs.
    So any issues with turning these creatures were not coded in the original.

    EDIT: And yes, I was playing on HoF.
    EDIT 2: Added a picture of the Skelly Warriors, forgot to before.
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,385
    edited March 2019
    The turn undead tables have been discussed in another thread (see below).

    HoF should boost the levels of the undead, making turning all the undead difficult with the level cap in mind.
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/36764/turn-undead-tables
    Crypt things should be chunkable in Ho mode at level 26 and revenants at level 28 - skeleton warriors at level 30
  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 499
    Should be chunkable perhaps, but it's not the case. I was there very recently as level 30 on HoF, without Raduziel's mod, and it was the same as my 26 non-HoF. Revenants and Skeleton Warriors never got turned, let alone destroyed.
  • StromaelStromael Member Posts: 195
    Seems to be a bug. Can anybody replicate it in the EE?
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    Stromael wrote: »
    Seems to be a bug. Can anybody replicate it in the EE?

    It is a bug and I provided the fix a few posts above.
  • StromaelStromael Member Posts: 195
    The weird thing about Revenants is why they aren't turnable. Seems they should be motivated purely to hunt down their murderers, ignore everybody else, and they also retain their former intelligence; not being inherently evil they are therefore unturnable. Which then raises the question: why should they be even remotely interested in attacking the party?

    Also according to the 2E PnP rules after 6 months their bodies should decompose to the point that their spirit is liberated from its task. In fact I'd say there's a possible case to be made that the IWD developers didn't really check what Revenants actually are when adding them to that section of the game, since they don't adhere to any of the PnP descriptions---especially when you consider that in the pre-EE they are very definitely turnable.

    How peculiar.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    IIRC, non intelligent undead are not evil, but neutral. I have to check the book, though.

    I really can't tell if it is a 2nd, 3th or IE thing.

    If that's the case there is no correlation between alignment and vulnerability to TU.

    What I do remember is that Revenants are immune to TU - I've discovered it in a bad way during a PnP campaign.

    I do agree that Revenants are a bad creature to have as an enemy as they ideed should ignore anything that is not the target of their revenge or that prevents it from achieving this goal.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    Raduziel wrote: »
    IIRC, non intelligent undead are not evil, but neutral. I have to check the book, though.

    Yup, I was right. Every non-intelliget undead is Neutral (but all the intelligent ones, even with a Low Intelligence, are Evil).

    So there's is no correlation between alignment and vulnerability to Turn Undead.
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