Which is stronger, a summoned earth elemental or a summoned fire elemental?

Phanixis

Both druids and wizards can summon elementals in this game. I was wondering what was the stronger summon, assuming you get the same HD version of each summon, which is 12 HD most of the time. The druid has to use a higher level spell to summon earth instead of fire, so you would assume earth is stronger, but the spell description says it gives the same 12, 16 or 24 HD elementals as the fire elemental counterpart. And of course the wizard conjure spells are both of the same level. So what gives here?

Humanoid_Taifun

I have never once bothered with Earth Elementals, even when I had a protagonist purely dedicated to summons and no personal offense. Level 7 has many valuable spells (like Creeping Doom), and once you get Greater Elemental Summoning, it seems like a waste to summon standard Earth Elementals.
Spell Revisions moves the spell to level 6.

sarevok57

Stats for 12 HD earth elemental:

AC: 2
HP: 96
STR: 17
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 7
WIS: 13
CHA: 8
THAC0: 9
APR: 1
WEAPON DAMAGE: 4d8 ( strikes as a +4 weapon )

MORALE: 16
MORALE BREAK: 1
MORALE RECOVERY: 30

SAVE VS DEATH: 7
SAVE VS WAND: 9
SAVE VS POLYMORPH: 8
SAVE VS BREATH: 8
SAVE VS SPELL: 10

RESISTANCES: immune to +1 weapons and less

Stats for 12 HD fire elemental:

AC: 2
HP: 96
STR: 18
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 7
WIS: 12
CHA: 7
THAC0: 9
APR: 1
WEAPON DAMAGE: 3d8 + 1d6 fire ( strikes as a +4 weapon )

MORALE: 16
MORALE BREAK: 1
MORALE RECOVERY: 45

SAVE VS DEATH: 7
SAVE VS WAND: 9
SAVE VS POLYMORPH: 8
SAVE VS BREATH: 8
SAVE VS SPELL: 10

RESISTANCES: immune to +1 weapons and less
Fire: 100%
Magic Fire: 100%

so with that being said, i say they are pretty even, although i guess if you are fighting against enemies who are immune to fire, then the earth elemental would be better since it's base damage is higher

mlnevese

Yes it basically depends what you're fighting against. If it's immune or resistant to bashing damage or it has a special vulnerability to fire, such as trolls, use fire elemental.

gorgonzola

fire elemental is probably better also against beholders.
an elemental from divine casters is always friendly, from a mage there is a chance that it turns hostile and the mage has to engage a mental battle with him (so both loose time). imo mages should not use that summon.

lunar

In vanilla game, fire elemental summoning of druids is better than earth elemental summoning. Especially powerful in the early SoA as enemies require +2 to hit it. With some buffs like bless, haste, chant, etc. they become a very dangerous fighting force. Plus they are immune to fire, which is a bonus, so they can tackle fire shield:red enemies.

Earth elemental is one level higher and offers no benefit. They are not even immune to fire.

I really do not recommend mage elemental summonings, they are very unwieldy and can back-fire even. There are much better spells to cast in their corresponding levels.

Vitor

Like @lunar said, the best use of a summon is in the beggining of SoA with a Druid, since they level up in an odd experience curve.

That being said, I always felt Earth Elemental was stronger when cast with the epic level spell in ToB... But judging by the stats @sarevok57 posted, it seems Fire Elemental is stronger.

Humanoid_Taifun

@Vitor The epic level spell (actually "Quest" level) is something else entirely. The discussion is not on the topic of (Greater) Elemental Summoning though, but of the 7th level spell Conjure Earth Elemental.

gorgonzola

the earth elemental has some uses, like against a red dragon, if the player is able to control the fight and place toons and summons in the right way and at the right time.
why? cause it has a higher dmg roll and the dragon is immune to the fire damage from the fire elemental.
as long as the player is able to have a protected toon or an other expendable summon as target of the dragon breath, whose timing is predictable and whose direction is set by who the dragon want to target at the moment he is scripted to breath, the earth elemental is as resilient as the fire one but deals more damage.
those are quite niche situations that need a strong tactical player to work, the player must have full control of the battle, and the gain is not so relevant, at the end we are talking of only 1D8 more each attack, on average 4.5 dmg/round, 9 with hasted summons.

sarevok57

out of the 3 elementals i use earth because i think they look cool

plus im pretty sure the 24 HD earth elemental has the most HP......

and nope, they are the same for HP except the fire elemental at 16 and 24 HD forms both have 1 more STR than earth elemental, friggin' lolers