How exactly does thief backstab work?

droogish

Greetings,

I have never used thieves much (beyond locks / trap disarms on a low-level / dueled thief) and was wondering if anyone could explain / link how backstab abilities work? My current playthrough is with a Stalker - it's probably time I learnt what the mechanics are!

The class description indicates that damage modifiers apply - but what exactly needs to happen in order for the 'backstab' to occur? Do you need to navigate the character to be somehow be behind the target?


Thanks,
droogish

Humanoid_Taifun

When a character in your party wants to perform a backstab, the following conditions must be met:
1) standing behind the target
2) using a melee weapon that a single class thief would be able to use -- Staves work. The Staff of the Magi does not.
3) being invisible (amusingly, this condition completely ignores whether the target can see through invisibility)
4) The target needs to be vulnerable to backstabs. Dragons, golems and many other enemies will yield the message "The backstab seems to have failed". When you get the message, at least you know you did not mess up one of the other conditions.
5) Obviously, the character needs to be either a thief (not swashbuckler) or a stalker. I assume that modded Fighter/Swashbucklers multiclass characters are able to perform backstabs. I have not tried this. The game looks up your backstab multiplier on a table, and illegal combinations do not have their own entries, so they get treated as legal combinations instead.

When a character outside of your party wants to perform a backstab, one of the conditions is ignored. The game designers considered it to be very difficult to program the AI to actually move thieves to your backside before attacking. So they simply programmed the game in such a way that enemies can backstab you in your face as well.

Some damage does not get multiplied.
Most notably, strength damage gets added to the total AFTER the backstab multiplication. Also, every secondary damage of a weapon is not subject to multiplication. For example, let us say you use a hypothetical longsword with 1D8+5 slashing damage +1D4+1 Fire Damage. The 1D8+5 gets multiplied. The 1D4+1 does not.

I hope this post answers the question in a way that does not leave you confused and scared.

droogish

Thanks Humanoid_Taifun - that's a very clear and detailed explanation.

gorgonzola

@Humanoid_Taifun was very clear in explaining how backstab works.
i want to add only few things on how a thief can reach while invisible his target.
against enemies that don't cast true sight a potion, a spell from your mage or hide in shadows work.
against enemies that cast it cloak of non detection is the solution, but afaik it works only with the thief hide in shadows or with a toon that is equipping the staff of the magi, that can not be used to backstab.

to hide successfully the points that the thief has in hide and in move silently matter, but also the light of the point where he hides does. not all the points of a dungeon have the same light, moving to a dark spot and hiding often is successful, while in a different point the same thief with the same level in hiding can fail most of the times.
in the open ground at sunset and with a thief with good hide characteristics the same is true going into a shady spot.
when the thief is successfully hidden in shadows he can move to a place filled with light or pass right in front of the enemies and will remain hidden until the next check triggers, so as the hide is successful haste or speed boots help to reach the target before the illusion is reveled.