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Of BG and analysis paralyses...

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Comments

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 4,910
    @Skitia , the classes in MM7 aren't quite as single-classy as they first appear. The druid class actually plays the same as a BG cleric-mage, the paladin class plays like a BG cleric-fighter, and the ranger class plays like a BG fighter-thief. For me, the trouble with the MM7 "multi-classes" is that they are restricted from the top tiers of both their skillsets, so no grandmaster disarm traps for the ranger, and no grandmaster Protection from Magic for the druid or paladin (that's a *big* disadvantage). Also, no grandmaster air or water magic for the druid, which means no Lloyd's Beacon, and no grandmaster invisibility to make the Light quest in Celeste doable. And no grandmaster armsmaster for paladins. Paladins can't even access expert tier mind-body-spirit magic until after their first promotion quest, which is killing a dragon - which likely isn't going to happen until mid-game at the earliest.

    Because those grandmaster tier skills and spells are so important to having a smooth play experience, I always wind up playing a straight knight-thief-cleric-mage party in MM7. Like you, I tend to carry that preference for straight single classes over to Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I also don't get into a lot of multi-classing and especially not dual classing.

  • SkitiaSkitia Member Posts: 84
    edited March 27
    The dragon isn't too bad (As off topic as this is!), though I was the type of person crazy enough to attack and kill the dragon in Emerald island using wands/spells/arrows after a few failures. The dragons in BG are much harder, horrifying to see your party buffeted so far away.

    BelgarathMTH
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 6,417
    A good combat for restartitist is to play a dual class character.

    As soon as you get bored playing the one class, dual over to another, making you play essentially a completely new character from that point of the game on.

    Then you have a new goal with the character as you play, which is to unlock the first class, which should keep you focused as you can’t see the potential of class combination until it is unlocked.

    You should be able to get through 2/3rds of the game if you play like this, then hopefully by then the story has gripped you enough to finish it.

    ~

    Another suggestion is to just follow the main story and keep the exploration to a minimum until you are invested completely in a character.

    If you are running around in the wilderness and come across a cool item that your character can’t use, you may feel like that the item is a wasted opportunity so you’ll restart and create a character with that item in mind.

    ElysianEchoesJuliusBorisov
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 199
    @deltago , that's a pretty good case for dual classing. It would almost be like playing three different characters.

    Can one hope to defeat Seravok without the levels granted from all the side xp?

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 6,417
    So when it comes to main story and side quests with XP I tend to include side quests that are in the areas you visit.

    So Jolia’s ring and Fetish Ogre quest when you get FAI imo are part of the “main quest”

    Same with the Bassiluis, melecamp and Purdue’s sword quest when you hit beregost.

    Minsc (or Edwin) and the gnoll fortress when you hit nashkel (even Brag but I personally skip it).

    Basically get invested in the story of the game instead of your character and see how far that takes you, instead of investing in a character and seeing if that character is “good enough”

    ElysianEchoesJuliusBorisov
  • TheLungoTheLungo Member Posts: 12
    I use to suffer from the same issues you mentioned (getting bored fast resulting in constantly starting new games)

    The actions i took have been more or less mentioned in this thread but here is a summary:

    1. Do not play one dimensional kits as your main characters. By this, i mean kits that do not change much as the game progresses. An example of this would be the Archer kit for example. It was one of the first kits i ever played and i loved it from start to finish. You hit like a truck, and you are god in BG1. However you are basically shooting arrows from candlekeep to ToB which isn't much fun (and meleeing every once in a while)

    2. Increase the difficulty by using mods such as SCS or setting rules such as no reload. The old saying "The risk is worth the reward" applies to games as well. Plus if you install mods such as SCS for example, it will make you use all the magnificient tools this game has to offer (for example potions, scrolls,situational spells, etc which in an unmodded game there is no need to use at all).

    3. Use gameplay mods such as aTweaks. I realized i suffer from the Weapon anxiety syndrome which consists on finding weapons and not having the NPC's to use them. This will often result in me restarting to have the appropiate NPC's to use those weapons. There is a specially important part of aTweaks that you can use which changes the group of proficiencies to make them broader (I am currently using IWD rules which puts all swords but bastard and two handed in 1 group and both bow types in 1 group as well).

    4. Use classes that change their playstyle over time or at least cover the required utility requisites. For example i used the aTweaks option that multi class can grandmastery and instead of using an archer, i use a Fighter/Thief multi in bows which is basically an archer that can cover your find traps/open locks necesities. This also opens up more choices for the recruitable npc's.

    5. Use NPC/Quest mods such as NPC Project. These mods will not only make all npc's have more depth (resulting in them being more appealing) but will make the experience feel refreshed.

    6a. Do not think powergaming is all. This game is very balanced. You can finish it with every class combination unless you are intentionally gimping yourself.

    6b. Do not play chars that have very high downtime for the sake of powergaming. Fighter13/X dual class is awesome in TOB but terrible during most of SOA. Monks are very good in late game but very boring and one dimensional in BG1/SOD (and weak. However there are some fun monk specific items in SoD and SoA that you might want to try once).

    Hope this helped.

    JuliusBorisovGusindaAerakar
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 199
    Thanks, @TheLungo . Good tips, especially one, four, and the sixes. I only have tablet right now, though, so the mods stuff is kinda out of my reach.

    I've whittled down my choices to a human berserker that could dual into thief or mage if it gets boring, an avenger, and a stalker. Maybe I can actually play soon lol. Is a level 9/x berserker/something a lot of down time?

  • TheLungoTheLungo Member Posts: 12
    edited April 1
    In the particular case of berserkers, i like to dual them at 7 because what they gain at level 9 isnt that big. Kensai's however get the +1 dmg +1hit boost at 9 which makes it understandable. Regardless of this, the only difference is that at 7, you will get back your starting class during bg1, while at 9, you will get it at the end SoD/beggining of BG2.

    Avengers are super fun as well since they are like a mage/druid multi. Plus do not understimate the power of the Chaos spell. It is arguably the best crowd control spell in the game. and the spider form/web combo is very good.

    Stalkers are fun because:
    A. in an unmodded game, they have loads of proficiency points to spare so you can have several specializations.
    B. You do not have to make the decision of putting points into Hide in shadows/Move silently because they come with the kit (unlike thieves where you actually have choices) therefor making backstabbing more appealing.

    Also, if you have never done it before, try the Blade kit. It is my favourite one. And always pick up Viconia!

    Post edited by TheLungo on
    ElysianEchoes
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 199
    @TheLungo , how am I supposed to choose, now that you've made them all sound fun? xD

    Maybe I'll just use all three like someone suggested earlier, and still have room for 3 NPC companions...

  • TheLungoTheLungo Member Posts: 12
    It just a matter of taste. I personally play with 2 self created npc's.

    If you are going for Berserker or Stalker, i recommend you do not try to roll godly stats. That way when you actually get improvements such as the tome of str or any str enhancing items, you really notice the upgrade (having 18/00 from the start makes all str gains marginal in my opinion).

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 861
    edited April 1
    @TheLungo If you start with a strength score less than 18, most of your strength improvements will not be noticed at all, because you will not be using your strength score.
    The second level spell "Strength" lasts for long enough that unless you have multiple major battles per day (but not in a row) and several warriors to support, it will make your mediocre strength score meaningless.
    At the end of the saga it is even more extreme. You have access to 2 items granting strength 22 and potentially one item granting strength 25.
    An evil character can potentially raise their strength score to 23 (24 in the case of a half-orc). Even a good character may reach 21. These natural scores are high enough that you can choose to go "natural", which frees up one slot for a different item (and one strength item for one of your companions).

    But if you start at strength 15, there is no way you will not want a Belt of Strength at the end of the game, which makes the Manual of Gainful Exercise and the Deck of Many Things and the Machine of Lum completely meaningless. With such a character I give any permanent strength bonuses then to Minsc or somebody else with a strength score of 18.

    TheLungo
  • TheLungoTheLungo Member Posts: 12
    edited April 1
    @TheLungo If you start with a strength score less than 18, most of your strength improvements will not be noticed at all, because you will not be using your strength score.
    The second level spell "Strength" lasts for long enough that unless you have multiple major battles per day (but not in a row) and several warriors to support, it will make your mediocre strength score meaningless.
    At the end of the saga it is even more extreme. You have access to 2 items granting strength 22 and potentially one item granting strength 25.
    An evil character can potentially raise their strength score to 23 (24 in the case of a half-orc). Even a good character may reach 21. These natural scores are high enough that you can choose to go "natural", which frees up one slot for a different item (and one strength item for one of your companions).

    But if you start at strength 15, there is no way you will not want a Belt of Strength at the end of the game, which makes the Manual of Gainful Exercise and the Deck of Many Things and the Machine of Lum completely meaningless. With such a character I give any permanent strength bonuses then to Minsc or somebody else with a strength score of 18.

    Hi Humanoid, i think i was not clear enough. I mean to go with a 18/<50 or something like that so that the jump of increasing 1 strenght is noticeable. Of course i wouldn't recommend going below 18 with any type of fighter class, just not the absolute max :) . Thanks for the explanation tho.

    Also one more thing, i have as an unavoidable rule not to use pickpocketing in SoA. There are just too many good items to buy in BG2 at the start, some even best in slot, which makes venturing into dungeons/quests feel unrewarding.

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