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Have the folks at Beamdog ever talked about making a new D&D game? If they did, what would you want?

The Baldur's Gate games obviously made a *HUGE* impact on RPG's in video-games, and still features some of the best voice-acting I've ever had the pleasure of listening to. The "Enhanced Editions" have been phenomenal, and brought a lot of great quality-of-life improvements to some already-amazing games.

I'm curious, though, if there's ever been any discussion on whether the folks at Beamdog might consider making an all-new game? And if they did, what sort of stuff would you guys want to see?

For my part, personally I've always found it incredibly difficult to manage multiple characters, and to be blunt, I still find Magic to be super confusing. I'd personally really dig an option whether my teammates play totally by themselves, while I only have to worry about managing my own character (including just setting party members to auto-follow my main dude).

Beyond that, it would be cool to try and incorporate some genuinely new classes, or maybe even just flesh-out some of the "Unearthed Arcana" stuff? For example, I personally love the idea of a "Phoenix Sorcerer", or maybe even a "Martial Artist" that's super dark and violent, sort of like Akuma from the Street Fighter series (ie. "martial artists that practice self-perfectionism, see combat at the ultimate form of art, and even fight an opportunity to push themselves further").

I'm also a huge fan of having multiple love-interests to pursue, and not just "Here's the 'good' one, this one's evil, the other one is hot but vain, etc". Something BioWare was kind of bad about in some of their recent RPG's, though, is that there was no option to just "be straight", so I felt like I had to purposely be mean towards my buddies to prevent them from getting romantic. So, maybe not have characters flirt with you unless you sort of prompt it a little more?

Beyond that... I'd kind of dig a whole new art-style. Instead of going for photorealism, I wouldn't mind things being a bit more stylized. Doesn't have to be goofy or over-exaggerated like Warcraft or anything, but just more discernible silhouettes from a distance. Or maybe a more zoomed-in kind of view?

Anyways, that's just me! What about you guys? What would your personal wish-lists look like, assuming they get the chance to forge a new D&D game?

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Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 8,576
    I'd take anything from them at this point. After SoD, I thought they were going to start doing their own crpgs. To say I'm disappointed with the games they have chosen to work on is an understatement.

    Personally, I'd love to see something in Ravenloft, or maybe something witha strong Cletic flavor.

    Vallmyr
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,267
    I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum compared to the OP: I like the “mage chess” battles, prefer party-based games where I’m in control of all party members, hate romances in RPGs, and have a strong preference for BGI-like art styles that are more grounded/less stylized.

    sarevok57kanisathashabadoo
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 103
    Personally, I would LOVE to see a new game set in Ravenloft or Dark Sun, as these are probably my two most favourite D&D settings. One could easily adapt a classic "hero's journey" game to these settings, but give them enough of a twist to make them captivating and interesting (similar to how Planescape: Torment was also a Hero's Journey, but it was set in a very unique and imaginative world with its own distinct theme and flavour.)

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 366
    A game being party-based with full control of all companions, and being RTwP, are the two main "must-haves" for me. I prefer isometric, but can accept third-person; but not first-person. And I too hate the inclusion of romances and see them as a waste of development reources. Character development is extremely important to me. A huge reason why I hate 2e AD&D is that you don't have much to do with your character each time you level up, and after 10th level hardly anything at all, especially for fighter types. As for a D&D setting, I am strongly wedded to the Forgotten Realms, though I don't understand why devs keep going to the same places in the Realms again and again for their games when the Realms is full of so many other interesting, fascinating locales.

    AndreaColomboshabadoo
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 6,515
    September 30 2014.

    1653 and counting when D&D 5e (Monster Manual) was released to the public and still no RPG D&D game (digital board games and Idle games do not count) on its rule set.

    Come on WotC. FEED ME.

    kanisathaThacoBellBelgarathMTH
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 366
    Well, we still have that Brian Fargo hint about someone out there working on a BG successor game. I'm betting it's CDPR's other big AAA RPG they're working on besides CP2077. And if it is indeed CDPR, I would be extremely thrilled.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,813
    deltago wrote: »
    September 30 2014.

    1653 and counting when D&D 5e (Monster Manual) was released to the public and still no RPG D&D game (digital board games and Idle games do not count) on its rule set.

    Come on WotC. FEED ME.
    Pretty sure Sword Coast Legends is 5e, but it got decidedly "meh" reviews despite a promising premise.

    deltago
  • TerinTerin Member Posts: 2
    I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum compared to the OP: I like the “mage chess” battles, prefer party-based games where I’m in control of all party members, hate romances in RPGs, and have a strong preference for BGI-like art styles that are more grounded/less stylized.

    Hah, to each their own! I'm going to try a fresh playthrough of BG2 again soon, so maybe as I grow more comfortable with using magic I'll be able to appreciate the combat system more? I typically just treat everyone like my character's "support".

    Truth be told, though, if I could snap my fingers to make the perfect game? I'd want the depth, setting, and superb voice-acting of Baldur's Gate II, but with a gameplay style a bit closer to the recent XCOM games. Firaxis is clearing doing their own thing (and I feel bad for saying this, but I think that new "mutant animals" thing is going to be a huge flop), but Beamdog seems capable of something like that.

    Almost a "Final Fantasy Tactics" vibe, but with better storytelling.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,461
    Quartz wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    September 30 2014.

    1653 and counting when D&D 5e (Monster Manual) was released to the public and still no RPG D&D game (digital board games and Idle games do not count) on its rule set.

    Come on WotC. FEED ME.
    Pretty sure Sword Coast Legends is 5e, but it got decidedly "meh" reviews despite a promising premise.

    sword coast legends not doing so well may be the main reason we have not gotten many dnd games.

    Quartz
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 129
    I would love to see another CRPG in the style of BG, but an entirely different campaign - that is, not another BG connected game. There are a ton of places in Faerun that haven't really been tapped at all, so it shouldn't be that hard.

    I do like the BG style, though, with a party under your control. I don't have a preference for rule set, since I imagine there would have to be tweaking anyway (thanks to a computer DM)

    Quartz
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 103
    Yeah, one thing I forgot to add in my original post above was that I'd also like the game to be party-based and RTwP. While I did enjoy Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, I felt like just having 2 or 3 different party members wasn't really enough to allow you to enjoy the full scope of strategic options that having 6 or so party members could bring to the table. I also played some turn-based D&D games such as Temple of Elemental Evil and I have to say, it feels soooooo tedious and slow after playing real time D&D games. ("Oh god, it's 8 zombies!" *proceeds to watch each zombie take turns to slooooowly shuffle over towards my party before I can take my next turn*)

    I also WOULD like to see romances be included in the game, provided that they're well-written and allow for believable romantic development (like BG2. I appreciate the effort Beamdog put in for SoD, but there really wasn't enough writing for the various romances to really make them feel worthwhile.)

  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 80
    I've played real-time and turn based games and see little difference in timing. Do you not pause at times, sometimes frequently? You make the game effectively turn based at that point. Just like to see things moving, even when they're not actually taking any actions? That can be confusing. ToEE is a wonderful game, and the truest to tabletop that I've ever seen in a video game (D&D is a turn based game, after all). Besides, it's not like it takes long for a few monsters to take their turn. If you get bored in mere seconds, just wow.
    Romance? Romance? When i first started playing, way back in the good old days of basic, we were a bunch of preteen boys with no desire for romances.Then, later, when one would get a girl friend, she would play and he would make her character his lover. It was only to keep other players from flirting with her through her character, to control her actions. It would distract from the role playing, not enhance it. I don't believe it enhances anything in video games either, unless it is integral to the story.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 103
    shabadoo wrote: »
    I've played real-time and turn based games and see little difference in timing. Do you not pause at times, sometimes frequently? You make the game effectively turn based at that point. Just like to see things moving, even when they're not actually taking any actions? That can be confusing. ToEE is a wonderful game, and the truest to tabletop that I've ever seen in a video game (D&D is a turn based game, after all). Besides, it's not like it takes long for a few monsters to take their turn. If you get bored in mere seconds, just wow.
    Romance? Romance? When i first started playing, way back in the good old days of basic, we were a bunch of preteen boys with no desire for romances.Then, later, when one would get a girl friend, she would play and he would make her character his lover. It was only to keep other players from flirting with her through her character, to control her actions. It would distract from the role playing, not enhance it. I don't believe it enhances anything in video games either, unless it is integral to the story.

    I actually do not pause that often, no. What I typically do is when the battle starts, I size up my opposition and assign instructions to my party members. The fighter types usually have scripts that make them attack the nearest enemy once their target is dead, so they're very much like "fire and forget" missiles that I don't pay much attention to UNLESS more enemies show up and I need to rush a warrior over to some high priority enemy. I always disable all spellcasting AI, so spells are targeted manually, but in most battles that just consists of the Cleric casting Prayer/Recitation or the odd Flame Strike when the mood strikes me. My Mage is the one that I babysit the most (they usually have AI completely disabled). My Thief and Ranger I usually just equip with ranged weapons with instructions to target enemy spellcasters, after which they can attack whichever targets they want.

    The end result is that most battles tend to be over in a few rounds, so 10 - 20 seconds of real time. In BG-style games, I find that most of the time spent dealing with combat is buffing before the fight and then healing up afterwards.

    I won't deny that ToEE did very well in bringing a turn-based D&D experience to the computer (particularly with grappling rules, something which no other D&D game has tried to implement, I believe), but something about its combat just didn't sit well with me. Like I mentioned above, having to wait for 8 zombies to slowly shuffle across a room towards you before your characters can take their next turn (you can't even queue up the next set of targets or actions for your characters while waiting) just felt aggravating.

    As for romances and roleplaying, your experience may vary. *shrug* I find it very hard to experience true immersion when playing with other human players, whether it's in tabletop, multiplayer RPGs or MMOs. Invariably somebody will start talking about real life stuff, a movie they've seen recently, problems they're having with work, medical issues etc. And before you know it, everybody at the table is distracted. That's fine for a tabletop game (which I should mention that I also play at frequently), but it's not the kind of deep immersive roleplaying that I want when I sit down with a CRPG, like getting lost in a book's story. Perhaps romances don't improve that feeling for you, but they do for me (and I dare say a lot of other players too) when it comes to giving your character greater investment and attachment to this world you're diving into. (In fact, there's this longstanding joke/rule in my tabletop group that our characters should all be orphans and have no romantic entanglements, because otherwise we can definitely expect our loved ones to get attacked or blackmailed at some point. While from a metagaming perspective, it's entirely true, but it doesn't make for very believable characters in a story.)

    ThacoBellkanisatha
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 129
    I typically roll with a lot of arcane/divine casters, which do require a bit of micromanagement. That said, I vastly prefer RTwP as well. In fights that I'm reasonably sure the tanks/archers can mostly handle on their own, I let it ride, and I prefer the visual effect to purely turn based.

    AndreaColombo
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,267
    I prefer RTwP too.

    As for setting, I'd leave Planescape aside as it would automatically set the new game against PS:T which is a heavy burden to bear (a pity, however, as the Planescape setting is amazing.)

    Dark Sun would be great, though other areas of Faerun or even Maztica, Zakhara, or even Eberron could be very interesting.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,342
    Quartz wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    September 30 2014.

    1653 and counting when D&D 5e (Monster Manual) was released to the public and still no RPG D&D game (digital board games and Idle games do not count) on its rule set.

    Come on WotC. FEED ME.
    Pretty sure Sword Coast Legends is 5e, but it got decidedly "meh" reviews despite a promising premise.

    Sword Coast Legends is barely 5e. Like, it has the same names for some classes and spells but almost everything else is different. I bought into the hype but was quickly disappointed when I learned it didn't use the PnP rule set.

    AndreaColombo
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 80
    edited April 12
    @Zaxares, I don't do well relying too heavily on scripts. I set them to how I wish characters to react when initially sighting, or being attacked by an enemy. Within the first couple rounds after that one or more does something...uhm, unexpected. I'm still fiddling with different set ups, and will eventually get comfortable with them or not. Of course my own control issues play into it as well.
    Romance between PC's is specifically my issue. A love interest is often a great story device for DM's to use in many ways. But when it's between player characters then they take the story away from the DM and the quest at hand. In CRPG'S the dialogues are to limiting and usually cheesy and unbelievable to me.
    I'm flexible on turn based v. Real time. I'm in no hurry, I'll just freshen up my drink and then kill me some zombies.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,426
    kanisatha wrote: »
    It is a limitation of the medium of tabletop gaming, one that no longer holds when you transition to the medium of computer gaming. So why would you want to continue to hold onto that limitation when you no longer are forced to have it? The point of computer gaming is that the technology involved allows you to do things you cannot do in a pen and paper tabletop game.
    one reason can be that it lead to a different style of game playing.
    i never played pnp dnd, so i am not biased toward it in any way, for me the reason to have a new turn based game would not be "cause dnd is turn based", but because the turn based computer games imo are very different from true real time ones, in them strategy count much more then sharp reflexes.
    when i play bg2 i have almost always different autopauses on, and i use often he pause, micromanaging my party, for me to play it is something similar to playing a chess game, that is also turn based. when i play not turn based games i have a completely different experience and i play them in a completely different way.

    it would be possible to play chess in a not turn based way, the player that think and move faster has advantages, but doing it too fast can lead you to a bad position. and if your rook is trying to capture my queen, i can be fast enough to move it in a safe position. it would be a possible way to play chess that way, maybe some rules should be added, like i can not counter your rook capturing it with my queen that is under attack. but it would be a completely different game with a completely different feeling.
    i like the feeling of those turn based computer games.

    kanisatha
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 129
    There is a valid reason to like either, which is why I like real-time with pause. I wouldn't have any heartburn with an option to auto-pause when an enemy appears to allow you to stop and think through things carefully, though I do feel like that draws you out of the role play somewhat.

    There are times when you can get in a jam with real time, and there are even times when you have to smash the pause button awfully fast, but overall I really enjoy the fact that once you get everyone set up, you can sit back and watch the action. Which is why I think real time with pause is the perfect compromise. Of all the games I've played, I think that is my favorite approach.

    Of course, I also enjoyed the pure real time of Ultima Underworld, so maybe I'm more biased to real time than I think.

    gorgonzolakanisatha
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,426
    yep, but the reasons i use the autopause are that is impossible for me to manage 3-6 characters at the same time, even to be aware of what they do, looking at the feedback to analyze dice rolls and such. the only selecting the spell to cast takes too much time for me to play real time bg2. soloing or using a single toon in multiplayer is different, as long as you tie the spells that need to be cast fast to keys.
    my tactical planning is done before the battle.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 129
    Either way, I wish someone would make another true single-player CRPG. I hated how everything went full MMO shortly after BG2/IWD. It doesn't even have to be isometric, either. I would absolutely play the bajeebers out of a modern take on Ultima Underworld, for example. (I am astonished no one has attempted to make a modern version of those games...)

    Beamdog, with its background in CRPGs, would be an ideal company to do it - if they would get around to doing it.

    gorgonzolakanisatha
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,267
    The whole point of RTwP is to have real time combat with no need for high APM, right? All the benefits of TB without the slow drag :)

    ThacoBellkanisatha
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 366
    The whole point of RTwP is to have real time combat with no need for high APM, right? All the benefits of TB without the slow drag :)

    See this is exactly how I see it! So I just cannot understand people's attraction for TB. And TB is by far the worst characteristic a game can have that is immersion-breaking. I mean who in the world tries to kill one another by politely taking turns?!

    gorgonzolaAndreaColomboThacoBell
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 366
    Maurvir wrote: »
    Either way, I wish someone would make another true single-player CRPG. I hated how everything went full MMO shortly after BG2/IWD. It doesn't even have to be isometric, either. I would absolutely play the bajeebers out of a modern take on Ultima Underworld, for example. (I am astonished no one has attempted to make a modern version of those games...)

    Beamdog, with its background in CRPGs, would be an ideal company to do it - if they would get around to doing it.

    Well, as I said above in a post, I am hopeful that Brian Fargo's reveal a few months ago that he knows that someone is making a BG game turns out to be true.

  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 80
    I didn't mean to say that turn based is better because dnd is turn based, sorry i was unclear on this point. I meant to say that if turn based takes you out of the immersion, then you must not enjoy tabletop play to its fullest potential. In the beginning, when there were no kits, skills, or feats to grant special abilities or bonuses these had to role played as well. We kept a semblance of immersion while arguing the benefits of specific maneuvers.
    I have found it more difficult to maintain immersion being locked into a small selection of dialogue options, watching toons just stand there waiting for their next action while other toons may be attacking or casting or moving about for some reason. But this is a limitation of the tech we all have to live with.

    kanisathagorgonzola
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 366
    edited April 13
    shabadoo wrote: »
    I didn't mean to say that turn based is better because dnd is turn based, sorry i was unclear on this point. I meant to say that if turn based takes you out of the immersion, then you must not enjoy tabletop play to its fullest potential. In the beginning, when there were no kits, skills, or feats to grant special abilities or bonuses these had to role played as well. We kept a semblance of immersion while arguing the benefits of specific maneuvers.
    I have found it more difficult to maintain immersion being locked into a small selection of dialogue options, watching toons just stand there waiting for their next action while other toons may be attacking or casting or moving about for some reason. But this is a limitation of the tech we all have to live with.

    It's interesting you say this, because all of us in the tabletop group I used to play with back in grad school a long time ago were constantly trying to find ways to "fix" the immersion-breaking and even logic-breaking nature of taking turns in our game. So we always allowed players to go simultaneously with others if they wished, and "initiative" was determined not by luck but by character-specific attributes and positioning. And most importantly, if you try to coordinate your actions with your party mates by calling out actions to one another, it was assumed the enemy also knew what you were intending to do.

    Post edited by kanisatha on
    gorgonzola
  • SkipBittmanSkipBittman Member Posts: 99
    edited April 13
    I wonder if since their various pitches to WotC for D&D games were all passed on and since Baldur's Gate III was signed away to another company, that's what caused the leaving of a few folks who would've been keen to work on D&D RPGs during the next few years of their lives. It seemed the natural direction for Beamdog to go in after building up their companion-writing and voiceover chops and it's sad there's been no further obvious momentum on original campaigns since Dragonspear. Just tantalizing glimpses of shelved pitches. Shame annoying weirdos whined about minor things in that and somehow that ended up dominating the online reception of it, that had to have taken the wind out of their sails after such an grueling effort forcing the Infinity Engine to perform new tricks... and no doubt the beancounters at Wizards didn't take it all well.

    Hope they can make the numbers work for at least a modest new NWN module using new assets to show off the upgrades.

    Post edited by SkipBittman on
    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 8,576
    NWN is incredibly unsatisfying. I wan't a full party control rpg.

    ShadowdemonVallmyrkanisatha
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 80
    edited April 14
    kanisatha wrote:

    It's interesting you say this, because all of us in the tabletop group I used to play with back in grad school a long time ago were constantly trying to find ways to "fix" the immersion-breaking and even logic-breaking nature of taking turns in our game. So we always allowed players to go simultaneously with others if they wished, and "initiative" was determined not by luck but by character-specific attributes and positioning. And most importantly, if you try to coordinate your actions with your party mates by calling out actions to one another, it was assumed the enemy also knew what you were intending to do.

    So everybody talked all at once? All rolled dice simultaneously? Or did each announce their actions one by one, and then dice rolls, and then the results of all actions applied? Or some other version of these? I'm confused how this would be any different regarding immersion.
    'Coordinate actions by calling out actions to one another"? Weren't you telling the DM your actions? Couldn't the other players hear that and determine their actions from that? I'm really not seeing how this system aided gameplay, let alone immersion. Also, it's verisimilitude...simulated truth aka the suspension of disbelief. This does not come from the game mechanic but from the DM. A good story told properly by a DM who is comfortable with the rules and can keep the game flowing at a natural pace, well it just sucks you in. Computers are amazingly inferior at this, what with no imagination and all.

    EDIT: It was really late when I wrote this. If it seems overly confrontational, just blame exhaustion and please accept my apology. However you enjoy playing is fine, as long as you're having fun. Which I assume you are, or you wouldn't be playing.

    Post edited by shabadoo on
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