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Do you ever alter party npc?

As the title says..

I am tempted to pick up Valygar or either change to him an archer, as there aren't any.. or wizard slayer, because that's what i feel he always should have been.

Change Imoen to a multiclass Thief/Mage instead.. because there's plenty of mages, very few leveling thieves.. list goes on..

That or just drop npc entirely and create full party..

OrlonKronsteen

Comments

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 466
    I have started doing this recently and am running Valygar as an archer now. I am enjoying it very much, though I would only do it within sensible limits (i.e. no mage Minsc). If you have played the game through with the original npcs and this breathes new life into the game then go for it!

    OrlonKronsteen
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 763
    edited May 2019
    I slightly alter some of them. In BG1 I change Monty's proficiencies to dagger and crossbow. In BG2 I change Jaheira's proficiencies to **staff and *two-handed weapon style (leaving **clubs and * sling). If I give Viccy a pip in flails in BG1, I'll edit that in when I pick her up in BG2, etc.. These are more in line with how I see the characters. Heck, in Monty's portrait he's holding a dagger (and in my mind he was born to wield the dagger of venom), and Jaheira is holding a staff in her BG1 pic. If I use Mazzy again I'll probably reduce some of her pips in bows and allocate them elsewhere to give her more variety (maces, most likely).

    As it's a single-player game I think everyone should play however they want. My only personal restriction is that I wouldn't give characters abilities that make them overpowered, or that are out of line with their personalities. I'll never turn Edwin into a fighter, for example.

    StummvonBordwehrgorgonzola
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 453
    Yeah, i keep within sensible limits when I do alter them.

    It's just that in many party compositions i find many of them to be of no use to me, despite finding them fairly interesting.
    Like Valygar... stalker? Pffft.. Besides, it makes much more sense for him to be a wizard slayer.

    My only gripe is that it makes me feel like a dirty cheat lol

    And creating my own party is sorta boring.. kind of.
    And I have this obsession with having Mr.ToB and Imoen with me, so that really narrows things down i guess.

    gorgonzola
  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,089
    Like Valygar... stalker? Pffft.. Besides, it makes much more sense for him to be a wizard slayer.
    I don’t see it and I never have. Everything about Valygar’s writing seems to indicate a loner who wants to distance himself from his family’s legacy, not actively oppose it. He has dialogue on following his father’s footsteps as a ranger and nothing on training specifically to fight magic-users. Ranger is a perfect class for him.

    ThacoBellIseweingorgonzolaAngulimala
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 496
    I wouldn't suggest this to a virgin player, but if you have played through the game several times, I don't see an issue with it. I have done a very few minor tweaks here and there myself on later play throughs, though usually just to "fix" irritating issues. I've even had regrets on a few of those and undone them.

    Specifically, I got tired of Imoen having issues with scribing higher level spells due to her 17 INT. I found an Ioun stone that raised it one point, allowing her to scribe, but I was constantly switching it out for a regen stone. However, I realized that this was a unique quirk that made her interesting to play and undid the fix.

    That said, if you really like a character, but they aren't "quite" right, I see no problem in altering them. I've long been tempted to make Mazzy a paladin of some sort because she really should be. She references her patron goddess more than some actual paladins!

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 801
    Doesn't matter to me in the least if people want to totally respec the game's joinable NPCs. Everyone builds parties differently and you shouldn't be forced to go with class combinations that don't work for you in order to see banter between the game's joinable NPCs.

    OrlonKronsteengorgonzola
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,253
    -I change Viconia's skin color to blueish gray and give her BG1version the silver circlet.
    -Kivan's profs change from halberd to spear (because of his exclusive mod weapon)
    -bg2 Imoen gets the cleric animation because hooded thief doesnt suit her at all.
    - Aran linvail too.
    -Traveler's robes gets no animation so neera looks more like her artwork.
    -I change ankheg plate's animation to chainmail for jaheira because she looks awful on green platemail.
    -Eldoth gets shortbow and dagger instead of longbow and scimitar because he is not a frontline/heavy weapon kind of man.
    -Alora loses her 1 pp in two weapon style and gets a pp in slings.
    -Glint gets his original dark haired portrait (way less cartoonish)
    -Ajantis becomes a cavalier and loses pp in longbow.


    Oh, and I change everyone's stats on IWD npc project because they're too min/maxed.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 613
    My most common tweaks are altered proficiencies; for example, giving Keldorn two dots in Bastard Sword instead of Long Sword, or giving Anomen one dot in Flail/Morningstar instead of one in Quarterstaff.

    People talk about changing Valygar's class, but I like him just fine as a Stalker. Backstabbing is fun. The tweak I'd make there is cosmetic; making his family armor look like chain mail instead of leather (It has chain mail modifiers, an item code that implies chain mail, and in earlier versions it blocked hiding).

  • Cabal82Cabal82 Member Posts: 65
    You should not alter NPC, no sir! :wink:

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,072
    Almost always, usually with level 1 npcs. Often they'll get a kit from something like Faith and Powers.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,175
    nope. also never really switch people out except near the beginning of the game where i'm forced to say have the canon party in bg2. bg is one of the few series where i stick to one set of characters the whole game and never really switch them out.

  • tedmann12tedmann12 Member Posts: 87
    Turned Mazzy into an archer in my current game which is fun. I have edited Minsc to give him a "working" bezerk ability. My justification is that Rangers are just very inferior as is, so why not let his special ability be useful.

    My next playthrough is going to be evil with only a couple party members and I am thinking about making viconia a cleric/thief

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    I think it's pretty fun to play around with it. You can edit Cernd's kit and abilities so that he actually becomes useful in stead of dead weight.

    I'm currently doing a run with Minsc as a DC'ed cleric/ranger. I kind of like Minsc, but I got sick of his vanilla kit and pathetic int and wis stats.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    Maurvir wrote: »
    That said, if you really like a character, but they aren't "quite" right, I see no problem in altering them. I've long been tempted to make Mazzy a paladin of some sort because she really should be. She references her patron goddess more than some actual paladins!

    The race/class restrictions are ridiculous. Elves can't be bards ffs.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,253
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    Maurvir wrote: »
    That said, if you really like a character, but they aren't "quite" right, I see no problem in altering them. I've long been tempted to make Mazzy a paladin of some sort because she really should be. She references her patron goddess more than some actual paladins!

    The race/class restrictions are ridiculous. Elves can't be bards ffs.

    Elves can't be Elvis.

    DhariusNeverusedgorgonzolaartificial_sunlight
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,564
    For the most part, no. An npc's class/kit is just as much a part fo their character as their personality or dialogue.

  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 679
    I often completely change the NPCs. Usually because I decide I want a custom party playthrough, but still want some party banter and side quests.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 496
    edited May 2019
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    For the most part, no. An npc's class/kit is just as much a part fo their character as their personality or dialogue.

    Yeah, this is the only reason I don't "fix" Mazzy. She actually comments on the issue in one of her banters.
    karnor00 wrote: »
    I often completely change the NPCs. Usually because I decide I want a custom party playthrough, but still want some party banter and side quests.

    You might try some of the mod NPCs, then. I have been pretty pleased with the few I've tried so far.

    Post edited by Maurvir on
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    gorgonzola
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 801
    Well, you always have the option to create your own party with whatever classes/kits you want. It's hard to see how customizing the game's NPCs is any more broken than that.

    [Deleted User]gorgonzolaMeyahi
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 968
    I do alter some of the NPCs, yes. I changed Imoen back into a pure Thief (probably the most drastic change I've made), and I adjusted some of the weapon proficiencies of the others (I put more points into Scimitar for Jaheira and took them away from Quarterstaff and Club, for instance).

  • kansasbarbariankansasbarbarian Member Posts: 203
    I change some proficiency points for some npcs. I get rid of Khalid axe point and put it in long bow. Neera gets dart or sling pp instead of staff at first. I never alter their stats though.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    I do. Usually i use only legittimate combos or single classes, changing the stats to allow it, but keeping the original total. I also try to keep some RP credibility, for me a Valigar archer, a Nalia FM or a Viky CM are fine, a Korgan sorcerer or an Aer
    ie berseker no.

    PsicoVickansasbarbarian
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 473
    edited June 2019
    I changed the npc´s to give them kits ( kivan archer, Kagain berserker with a legal 19 con, Coran with a legal 19 dex, Montaron assassin, Faldorn avenger, etc) since the first day I downloaded the Shadowkeeper, even before the EE.

    DreadKhan
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Oh, totally, especially thief skills and proficiency points, because some really feel sub optimal, standouts include Shar-Teel, wtf was going on with her profs?? I sorta get it, but it really nerfs her IMHO, because it'd be nice to get mastery before DCing her to thief. Sometimes I make her an archer actually, and drop the TWF all together. She's a great archer actually, and her low cons isn't a big drawback. If you get to Mastery and dual to thief she's still one of the best archers you could have in the game, but it requires spec in longbow to work. She's not as good as a min-maxed Archer PC would be, but she's a beast. If you can stand to dual her late, she's even better, but you'd really wonder why bother dualing if she's going to be inactive for so long, and frankly I kinda agree, dual at Mastery. IIRC, most thieves I like to re-order their picks to meet my needs.

    I have done some wild stuff, like turning Xan into a Fighter/Mage archer specialist, very nifty build actually, though not overpowered. I don't think I hacked much else actually.

    kansasbarbarian
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 447
    edited June 2019
    I really don't see the point of changing Valygar's class because Stalker does fit him just as well RP-wise (turned his back on arcane magic but regardless has instinctual access to it, specializes in "hunting" people - not just casters). Also, there's not a lot of natural dual-wielders in the game and he fills that niche VERY nicely gaming-wise... I'd even argue that Valygar being a dual-wielder is CRUCIAL since Minsc is a two-hander, Mazzy's an archer, Korgan's a tank, Keldorn is Carsomyr and Jaheira is already beastly with just her spells - weapon profs are just a bonus (hell, she can rock slings and daggers just fine given all the potential fighter HLAs she gets).
    Really, despite the fact that BG2 loves throwing magical weapons at you the only other natural dual-wielder is Haer'Dalis.
    I suppose Wizard Slayer fits, but at the same time seems odd given Valygar's soft-spoken, subdued and mostly live-and-let-live personality (his hatred towards magic is quite specific - he hates his own bloodline/people who abuse arcane magic). I'd argue that some kind of fighter/thief would be more appropriate (and incidentally gives you one more thief option). Probably sink most of those points starting points in stealth/traps.

    The most significant change I do is set all NPC levels to 1 (BG1) while everyone in BG2 starts with 89k XP. Their starting proficiencies/spells/etc are kept unchanged, except for BG:EE because many of the EE changes just don't make sense. For example, Shar-teel as a dual-wielder looks nice in paper (specifically fan art) but she always struck me as more of a pragmatic warrior/in-your-face kind of fighter (aka sword and shield) rather than a flashy/opportunistic one (dual-wield), especially given how you meet/recruit her. I suppose you can convince her to dual-wield in time (ie, while she travels with you and gains levels) but starting PPs in dual-wield just feels wrong on her.

    Also, most starting thieving ability distributions downright suck and make no sense especially with BG:EE's pickpocket nerf. It just doesn't make sense anymore that NPCs have their points all over the place. Therefore, everyone starts with all their level 1 points in lockpicking (why be a thief otherwise? though frankly every BG1 thief reeks of larcenous tendencies so meh).

    I actually enjoy Jaheira as a club wielder. Clubs don't break, there are several good ones in BG2 and she can always just use Shillelagh (which ignores profs) if she needs more melee-hitting power in BG1. For general combat I always just give her a sling in BG1 anyway.

    Post edited by Nuin on
  • ANOFANOF Member Posts: 63
    If I take Jaheira, I usually change her proficiencies, taking the rank she has in Sword and Shield style and putting it in Scimitar. If I take Viconia, I give her a couple of extra points in Strength and Constitution, because I consider them to be too low given what's she been able to get through.

  • AngulimalaAngulimala Member Posts: 53
    edited June 2019
    In the old days I used to make Imoen a Wild Mage AFTER picking her up at Spellhold. In my mind the ministrations of JonBoy unhinged the latent wild magic in her mind. Now that we have Neera, I'll probably just leave her as is.

    Also, Valygar will always be a stalker, an urban ranger in my mind, since he is so blatantly based on Forest Whitaker's lead role in Ghost Dog, at least physically. Even the drooping eyelid fits! Pro tip: see Ghost Dog for a great nontraditional samurai film.

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