Charisma reaction adjustment... actually do anything?

PugPug

I guess I've never played with a low-Charisma party leader, but it seems to me the game basically wouldn't work if NPCs were uncooperative.

Has anyone noticed the effects, if any?

kilroy_was_here

There is a percentage adjustment from stores based on the CHA of the person that talked to the merchant. There was a table with the exact numbers somewhere but I don't remember where.

Also, some NPCs you can recruit don't like each other and WILL kill each other. Having a high CHA party leader helps delay/prevent this.

Stargazer5781

If you have a smart phone, the Baldur's Gate Reference app has it. Here it is

3 -5
4 -4
5 -3
6 -2
7 -1
8-12 0
13 +1
14 +2
15 +3
16-17+4
18 +5
19 +8
20 +9
21 +10
22 +11
23 +12
24 +13
25 +14

AADA7A

I can't get it to make sense. I start characters with 10-11 reputation, and still can get results like this: a single character with 5 charisma, on the record sheet it says "reaction -6", and "reaction adjustment +2". Now, if the adjustment is based on charisma as it says in the manual, it's wrong. If reaction is based on reputation as it says in the manual, it's still incorrect.

Seems like the enhanced edition is just as weird to understand as the original...

wissenschaft

High CHA character in the leader position (the top spot) gives a bonus to moral which means its less likely your party will panic.

Worg

Yeah, I made a character with low Charisma and Xzar and Montaron didnt want to join my group . Also, Viconia does not join you, even if you help her, if you do not have high charisma. It also effects some rewards from quests.

Syntia13

And if you have a very low charisma, some NPCs will not join you. It's especially problematic with Xan and Viconia, because if you talk to them with a low-charisma character when you meet them, they will say "thanks for help, gotta go now" and they will go to the edge of the map (which is fairly close in both cases), and disappear from the game forever. Surprised me as hell when I discovered it. It can be worked around by sending one of your more charming followers to talk to the new guys. (Hint: let Imoen be your spokesman)

Oxford_Guy

Reaction is based on a combination of your Leader's Charisma and your Reputation. BTW don't get it confused with the Reaction Adjustment to weapon speed that you get from Dex

Rilbur

Stargazer5781 said:

If you have a smart phone, the Baldur's Gate Reference app has it. Here it is

Um... can you provide a link to where I can find that on the app store? Google pulls up an Android version, but not a iPhone one.

AADA7A

Oxford: In the manual it says this on dexterity: Missile Attack Adj.
Added or subtracted from the to-hit roll when using a ranged weapon. A positive number makes the opponent easier to hit.

Reaction adjustment on the other hand is given when one has a high reputation, and when one has a high charisma. What the difference in my sheet between reaction and reaction adjustment is, I don't know, but I cant figure the numbers quite out...

Corvino

There are a couple of items (including some unique boots) that are only given as quest rewards to high charisma characters. Small, I know, but it's in there.

Quartz

Syntia13 said:

(Hint: let Imoen be your spokesman)

Won't work anymore. In BG:EE it automatically takes the Charisma reaction of your main character, regardless of who speaks to people. On one hand that's cool because it discourages dump stat-ing Charisma, on another hand it makes NPCs like Ajantis and Safana slightly less useful.

EDIT: I might be wrong. I shall have to test it more.

James93

Quartz said:

Syntia13 said:

(Hint: let Imoen be your spokesman)

Won't work anymore. In BG:EE it automatically takes the Charisma reaction of your main character, regardless of who speaks to people. On one hand that's cool because it discourages dump stat-ing Charisma, on another hand it makes NPCs like Ajantis and Safana slightly less useful.

EDIT: I might be wrong. I shall have to test it more.

Have you tested it more?
Has this really happened?
Because i can get stats that go like this:
18-18-18-18-18-3
If i just dump Charisma if i can use a different character to lead...

Eightgallon

The other day on a re-roll I had a Bard with 18 Charisma, instead of getting 10g from the Bolt quest in Candlekeep I got a dagger +1 as a reward. Maybe it affects quest rewards?

szb

Eightgallon said:

The other day on a re-roll I had a Bard with 18 Charisma, instead of getting 10g from the Bolt quest in Candlekeep I got a dagger +1 as a reward. Maybe it affects quest rewards?

Yeah, there are some quests where you will get better rewards.

Oxford_Guy

AADA7A said:

Oxford: In the manual it says this on dexterity: Missile Attack Adj.
Added or subtracted from the to-hit roll when using a ranged weapon. A positive number makes the opponent easier to hit.

Reaction adjustment on the other hand is given when one has a high reputation, and when one has a high charisma. What the difference in my sheet between reaction and reaction adjustment is, I don't know, but I cant figure the numbers quite out...

No, there are two different sorts of reactions adjustment, Dex-based Reaction Adjustment influences who moves and attacks first in a round (it basically reduces your weapon speed) while Charisma-based Reaction is the bonus or penalty you incur while speaking with NPCs etc.

See:
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Dexterity
and
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Charisma

Of course Dexterity also has an affect on AC and missile attack to hit, as well as thieving abilities. Very useful stat!

Wanderon

Quartz said:

Syntia13 said:

(Hint: let Imoen be your spokesman)

Won't work anymore. In BG:EE it automatically takes the Charisma reaction of your main character, regardless of who speaks to people. On one hand that's cool because it discourages dump stat-ing Charisma, on another hand it makes NPCs like Ajantis and Safana slightly less useful.

EDIT: I might be wrong. I shall have to test it more.

I just did a quick test at the smithy in Beregost and when I changed Kivan to leader (8 cha) vs my 17 cha PC as leader the prices went up for the lower charisma. However just having my PC "talk" to the smithy (not take the lead) does not change the reaction (or prices) at least as far as store prices go it will be the party leaders cha that is used regardless of who "speaks" to the merchant and I seem to recall this also holds true for other dialoge reactions as well - the game always uses the leaders charisma score.

Jace

@Stargazer5781

Penalties to Reaction start occurring from 9 Charisma and below, so your smart phone app is incorrect, but that's because the manual is incorrect as well.

Long story short, a combination of sufficiently high Charisma and high Reputation for the leader (which combine to calculate a stat called "Reaction" which is just above the Resistances on your character sheet) will net you the following benefits.

1. Better store prices.
2. Some quest rewards are better.
3. Joinable NPCs always offer to join your party.
4. Some NPC dialogues change to accommodate for the better impression you make.
5. Some of own dialogue options change to accommodate for you being more diplomatic and articulate.
6. It is also alleged that it helps party members keep their morale, and that it lowers the chance certain party members will fight each other, but I cannot confirm that.

James93

@Wanderon When you say Leader, is that the top character on the list (whoever you set it to), or your starting main character?

Oxford_Guy

James93 said:

@Wanderon When you say Leader, is that the top character on the list (whoever you set it to), or your starting main character?

Top character in the list

James93

Good, Imoen can do all my Bartering then and i'll have 3 Charisma mwahahaha

Jalily

Quartz said:

Syntia13 said:

(Hint: let Imoen be your spokesman)

Won't work anymore. In BG:EE it automatically takes the Charisma reaction of your main character, regardless of who speaks to people. On one hand that's cool because it discourages dump stat-ing Charisma, on another hand it makes NPCs like Ajantis and Safana slightly less useful.

EDIT: I might be wrong. I shall have to test it more.

No, most NPCs still use the speaker's Charisma to calculate the reaction adjustment; only shopkeepers stick to using the Charisma of the person in the top slot.

Sharn

@James93
Out of curiosity, what are you getting when you constantly dump cha to 3?

Wisdom does nothing for non clerics and druids, int does nothing for non mages and bards, con beyond 16 does nothing for non warriors, there is no need to ever dump a stat to 3.

I really wish games would actually take extremely low and high stats into account a bit more in future incarnations, having a 3 cha is exceedingly low and leaves no room for interpretation as to why it is, an actual character with 3 cha would get a negative reaction from almost anyone and many people would pick fights with them simply for being near them.

Its not like having a cha that is in the middle somewhere, where you have the flexibility to define why your cha is semi low or semi high, it could be attractiveness, self confidence, a winning personality or a number of other things for semi high for instance, or one of those could be lacking for semi low, but with a 3 your character would be repulsive in every way imaginable.

James93

@Sharn Honestly, i don't know at all. Well, apart from the numbers, which will be 18/18/18/18/18/3...
It's just peace of mind when i get the stats to what i want.
I haven't looked into any of the stats to know at what point they do what.
I just know that Charisma is usually the most useless stat in every game and i assume that every other stat would do something if i upped it.
I couldn't even tell you what Wisdom does, not even sure what Intelligence does, something to do with amount of Spells castable per day? lol
If i did research into it, or if someone told me the optimum stats for a Mage (Conjurer specifically), then i'd probably have different Stats.

EDIT: So a character with 3 Charisma would be someone like Noober by your example hahaha.

lDanielHolm

AADA7A said:

Oxford: In the manual it says this on dexterity: Missile Attack Adj.
Added or subtracted from the to-hit roll when using a ranged weapon. A positive number makes the opponent easier to hit.

Reaction adjustment on the other hand is given when one has a high reputation, and when one has a high charisma. What the difference in my sheet between reaction and reaction adjustment is, I don't know, but I cant figure the numbers quite out...

That is not what "reaction adjustment" means. It refers to speed, not to hit.

CHA has a separate derived attribute called "Reaction". It is not the same as the DEX-derived "Reaction Adjustment". Yes, this is confusing.

Oxford_Guy

Sharn said:

@James93
Out of curiosity, what are you getting when you constantly dump cha to 3?

Wisdom does nothing for non clerics and druids, int does nothing for non mages and bards,

Well Int and Wis does provide a lore bonus/malus for *all* classes, though there are probably other characters better suited to identifying items, also having a reasonably high Int helps with mind flayer attacks in BG2. Also you need 9 Int to read protection scrolls, which all classes can use. In never give CHARNAME less than 9 Int.

Also, some non-mage/bard classes (and/or races) can have relatively high minimum stats for Int/Wis.

Sharn said:

con beyond 16 does nothing for non warriors, there is no need to ever dump a stat to 3.

Gnomes, Halflings and Dwarves gain con-based save bonuses for high int, though 15 Con gives +4 and you need to have 18 Con to get the +5 to saves, which isn't usually worth it for a non-fighter.

I must admit, though, that I don't like extreme min-maxing, though my elf fighter/mage does currently only have 6 Wis (though will raise to at least 7 with a tome, to reduce to lore penalty a bit and I don't like having such a low Wis from a RP perspective)

Oxford_Guy

lDanielHolm said:

AADA7A said:

Oxford: In the manual it says this on dexterity: Missile Attack Adj.
Added or subtracted from the to-hit roll when using a ranged weapon. A positive number makes the opponent easier to hit.

Reaction adjustment on the other hand is given when one has a high reputation, and when one has a high charisma. What the difference in my sheet between reaction and reaction adjustment is, I don't know, but I cant figure the numbers quite out...

That is not what "reaction adjustment" means. It refers to speed, not to hit.

CHA has a separate derived attribute called "Reaction". It is not the same as the DEX-derived "Reaction Adjustment". Yes, this is confusing.

Yes, this is what I said earlier

Pantalion

Charisma does almost nothing that a maxed pick pocket score and willingness to murder non-essential plot NPCs can't get anyway.

CutlassJack

Pantalion said:

Charisma does almost nothing that a maxed pick pocket score and willingness to murder non-essential plot NPCs can't get anyway.

Unless you group with Khalid alot. "Better part of Valor! Better Part of Valor!"

CandleBeside

Just wanted to say that you can also boost your charisma with the "Friends" spell to +6, which lets you save quite some money when buying or selling expensive stuff. Though that isn't that kind of "friendly" to the merchant i guess.

valky

So finally "Reaction Adjustment" is as useless as IWD2's bugged Initiative, which basically is the same....but only backstab-(n)pc should get a real benefit out of it. Else 'Temple of Elemental Evil' would favor such 'adjustment'