Jan/Bards and Level 9 Spells

Mythdracon

Can Jan cast these? I understand he's a multi-class so he won't be reaching that level yet, but he's got over 3 million XP on him and he only just got (2) Level 7 spells....when will he get Level 9 spells? And what about my bard, for that matter? He hasn't even reached Level 7 spells at all yet.

OlvynChuru

Bards never get 9th-level spells. Jan can cast 9th-level spells once he reaches 6 million XP.

Mythdracon

Yikes. Good to know. How high can bards go casting-wise?

Chronicler

Mythdracon wrote: »

Yikes. Good to know. How high can bards go casting-wise?

Bards can cast up to 6th level spells.

Mythdracon

Sad. I should not have had him learn those Level 7 and higher spells then....coulda kept those scrolls for the final battles....even in TOB can the bard not cast higher than level 6 spells?

jmerry

Note also that there's no level restriction on scrolls; a mage or bard of any level, or a thief with Use Any Item, can use scrolls of any level. So, if you really feel like it, you can have your bard cast something like Time Stop from a scroll.

Also, learning spells is unrestricted; you can scribe to your spellbook long before you get the slots to use those spells, and in the case of bards even if you never will. I have an endgame party in which Haer'Dalis has a spellbook full of level 7-9 spells - because I wasn't going to use those scrolls for anything other than experience anyway.

The experience counts required to get at least one slot of each arcane spell level:

L Mage Sorc Bard  M/X M/X/Y
1    0    0 1.25    0    0
2    5   10    5   10   15
3   20   40   40   40   60
4   60   90  160  120  180
5  135  250  660  270  405
6  750  750 1320 1500 2250
7 1500 1500    - 3000 4500
8 2250 2250    - 4500 6750
9 3000 3000    - 6000    -

The numbers there are total experience, in thousands. This assumes the standard 8M experience cap and the standard BG/BG2 spellcasting tables. The last two columns are for two-class mages such as Jan or Aerie and for three-class mages.

Ammar

Note that I consider capping Bards at level 6 spells to be an incorrect implementation of AD&D 2nd edition rules caused by the spell tables in the Player's Handbook ending at level 20. I am sure I have seen multiple sources where bards progressed to level 7 or level 8 spells at character levels above 20.

While I don't remember most of them, one was the HIgh Level Campaigns book, where bards got a level 8 spell slot at level 30.

The Tweaks anthology mod offers a component which is closer to P&P and which I consider to be a bugfix.

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AndreaColombo

Rogue Rebalancing enables Bards to reach 8th-level spells using the P&P progression (I assume from the High Level Campaigns handbook from the black-cover edition of AD&D.)

Mythdracon

Ah, well good to know. A shame they can't *ever* reach higher than Level 6, even in TOB, but I guess "Use Any Item" needs something to offset it.

Maurvir

Mythdracon wrote: »

Ah, well good to know. A shame they can't *ever* reach higher than Level 6, even in TOB, but I guess "Use Any Item" needs something to offset it.

Yeah, but capping at 6 is pretty extreme. The really good stuff doesn't start until you get to level 7.

ThacoBell

Eh, nothing above 6 is really required. 7 and up is just gravy and cheese. Most of the real meat of magic (the stuff used most often) is pretty much within the first 6 levels.

Mythdracon

But I like summoning devas and stopping time.

AndreaColombo

But why would you rely on a Bard for those? That’s a Wizard’s job

Even with Rogue Rebalancing, Bards wouldn’t be able to do either of those two things as P&P only goes to 8th level for them.

lroumen

Bards get more equipment and abilities, so they are inherently a more fun arcane caster than wizards and mages. The only cure they need is faster spell levels and spell slots.

Mythdracon

I don't know--while I like that bards can put down traps without risk of failure (as a HLA) and cast some spells while using a bow, I do still think mages are more fun casters, if only because there is such a huge range of spells.

Chronicler

Linear Warriors Quadradic Wizards.

A warrior uses a weapon. He travels through the game, and he finds a better weapon. This replaces his old weapon.

A mage uses spells. He travels through the game, and finds more scrolls, learning new spells. These spells are only added to an increasingly large pool of things he can do.

Finding weapons is fun, but finding spells is more fun imo. That +1 dagger you got off Fuller will only be pawned off for pocket change when the next cool thing comes along, but that armor spell in the cabinet in Winthrop's Inn will stay in your book straight through Throne of Bhaal..

More Spells means More Fun.

lroumen

But around SoA you will not cast the armor spell anymore either.

Mages are quite the same. Hoard less efficient spells until you get the best ones per level, then only memorise and cast those spells until the end of the game. If you happened to find that elusive reflected image spell it goes right in the book and you will likely never even cast it.

Finding spells is not more fun than finding new weapons. Finding the better spells is fun just like finding the better weapons is fun.

ElysianEchoes

Finding "Knock" early in BG1 is fun, and even useful to the end, yes?

I love finding new weapons. It's like pulling teeth to sell anything magical for me. Half my inventory spaces in BG2 are taken up with weapons and armor that I probably don't need.

What was the original topic, again?