Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Berserker->Cleric Dual Class

Got nice high stats, put 3 pips in Warhammers, 3 in flails....was that the right choice? Where should future pips be allocated? And is a generic cleric still decent? Lathander's bonuses looked kinda nice but I got greedy and wanted high attack/health that a dual class berserker->Cleric gets. Planning to dual at 9, is that sensible?

Also, should berserker->clerics bother with sword and shield style in BG2? Does the answer depend on whether one is soloing or partying?

Skatan

Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 187
    Generic clerics are just fine; the standard cleric kits are all relatively minor bonuses, and are mainly worthwhile because you're not giving up anything for them. None of those kits compare to the power of extra hit points and permanent warrior bonus attacks.

    Dual-classing at 9 is quite sensible. You'll want to grandmaster your primary weapon eventually, if only for the extra half-attack, but you'll get plenty of proficiency points in the long run. You don't have to do it right away.

    Sword and shield style? It's nice if you're using a shield, but not essential. If you're going to use it, get it early; enemy ranged weapons are a major threat early on (especially in BG1), and fade to near-irrelevance in the late game. Since you're focusing on one-handed weapons, the real question is whether you're going to be holding a shield or another weapon in your off hand.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 568
    Multiclassed fighter/clerics or ranger/clerics are stronger overall especially once HLAs become available. However a dual-classed berserker/cleric is still plenty strong, with better turning than a multiclassed character and grandmastery as well.

    As for which weapon style to use, it doesn't make much sense to add the fighter's melee prowess to a cleric unless you're actually going to leverage the extra melee DPS, which means you almost certainly want to be dual-wielding rather than using a shield. @jmerry is right that shields can be useful in the early game but I'd personally just equip a shield for those moments without diverting any pips from more useful proficiencies to sword-and-shield style.

    gorgonzolaSkatan
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,666
    edited August 8
    Imo in bg2 sword and shield is a completely wasted pip, if it would give better protection against mlee attacks it would be different. Plenty of items to boost ac against ranged there, a shield that is available early and that reflects the arrow to the attacker is the best of them.

    Lev9 is a good dual point and the build is strong. Impressive Hp amount when also buffed, very tanky.

    Hammer is one of the last proficiencies i would chose for a cleric as by the time crom will be assembled he can easily boost his STR with his spells, so i always give it to some party mate to have 2 super strong people in the party. But if to have always, and not only in the major battles, 25 STR is preferred then it is ok, play style choices...

    jsavingilduderino
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,836
    I might consider Sword and Shield on a solo cleric who intends to use a shield the entire game, or at least all of BG1. Any AC vs missiles is very helpful imho, esp in bg1, and a solo cleric is likely to get stuck in slow fights with 1 apr and several bow users pinging away.

    As a F to C dual, I think you should DW, probably warhammers, though flail gets two +1s early pretty easily, and you can buy the +2, so flails are a solid choice. Warhammer is great in BG1, to use Bassilus' one to slug people pretty decently, esp with buffs, but sub-par in BG2.

    Multi should consider whats ideal when, and DW as appropriate. Dwarf is strong, with massive save bonus'. Dwarves in BG2 get a cool hammer to use, and make it a more viable choice.

  • MythdraconMythdracon Member Posts: 187
    Thanks all! To clarify, I am starting in BG2, not BG1. I plan to try solo, but maybe duo with Imoen makes sense? Or with someone who can deal with traps (pretty much only Jan until Imoen's return).

    Does a dual berserker->Cleric kinda have to go into Dual Wield? Will he keep the DW points after he gets his cleric level to 9 and gets his fighter abilities back? And is it safe to dual wield as a solo cleric->fighter? Especially against beholders I think the shield might be handy (Shield of Balduran), but not sure about other areas where a solo berserker->cleric might need a shield.

    Skatan
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 416
    Your DW pips will reactivate when you get your fighter levels back, but if you spend cleric pips on DW before getting fighter abilities back, they will be effectively lost when fighter comes back online.

    Cleric can reduce damage taken with Armor of Faith and Defender of Easthaven, which can offset the worse AC of not using a shield, and can raise strength quite nicely with Divine Power and Righteous Magic, doing more damage more quickly, so I'd say DW is safe enough most of the time.

    Like you say, though, there will be situations where keeping a shield as backup will be helpful, like beholders and closing with ranged enemies.

    gorgonzola
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 168
    You cannot dual to a kit.

    Since Clerics can't use blades, your best off-hand is Defender of Easthaven. Not only does it get you -1AC and 20% resistance to all physical damage, it's a fine weapon in its own right since it's +3 so you don't have to worry about it not hitting things in ToB. Enhanced Edition also fixed its damage from 1d6+2 to 1d6+4 as befits a +3 flail.

    Dual wield that with Flail of Ages and you'll be fine. Flail Grandmastery should be a high priority of course.

    If you don't want to dual at level 13 for the extra 1/2 attack per round, go for level 8 for the third daily Rage. Unlike Fighter-Mages, Fighter-Clerics don't need to worry about ThAC0 as much since Cleric ThAC0 progression is decent in its own right, going down to base 6 at level 21.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 187
    The third daily Rage is at Berserker level 9, not level 8.

    While the Defender of Easthaven is the best defensive off-hand weapon for someone with cleric restrictions (unless you need negative plane protection for a fight with level-drainers), there are several options for going with two offensive weapons. In order of how much raw damage they deal:
    Flail of Ages +5 > Club of Detonation +5 > Storm Star +5 > Crom Faeyr > Flail of Ages +4 > everything else.
    Note that this completely ignores the strength bonus on Crom Faeyr; it's an endgame-worthy primary weapon even if you already have 25 strength from other sources. It's merely best used on a character that actually needs the strength boost.
    The power of the Flail of Ages, in anything but the super-late +5 version, isn't so much the raw damage as it is the no-save 33% chance of slowing enemies. Also, you're unlikely to give it to another member of your party; no recruitable BG2 NPC starts with even a single dot in flail/morningstar proficiency.

    gorgonzola
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,444
    Since a dual fighter to cleric can't get GWW HLAs (like the ultimate powerhouse; dwarf F/C), I'd say flail of ages +5 with it's immunity to haste effect is a bummer and something I would avoid. Better to go with something else and rely on Imoen, or another mage, to give you Improved Haste to max out the APR and use warhammers/maces/clubs. Another option is to not upgrade FoA4 -> 5. I rarely played ToB so I don't really cared about the end-game as much, so YMMW.

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 513
    Or just download the PnP Free Action mod which doesn't block haste.

    Flail of Ages mainhand for sure, offhand is either Easthaven or Crom. Keep Shields of Balduran and Reflection for occasional needs.

    For a berserker/cleric dual, 9 is the absolute sweet spot to dual, I wouldn't go to 13. Getting to Cleric 10 only takes 450k XP I think. Also one of the best things about getting to Fighter 13 (other than 0.5 APR) is the massive boost to fighter saving throws (especially death), which fighter/mage or fighter/thief duals really benefit from. But since cleric saving throws are on par with fighter (death is even better I think) you don't need that boost, so just dual at level 9.

    Personally for fighter/clerics I prefer Dwarf multi rather than Human dual. Cleric HLAs are a bit meh actually and soon run out of picks. Having Fighter HLAs as well to pick is pretty cool.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,666
    Unequip FOA+5, haste the toon and equip it back, no problem and no mods needed ;)
    Is worth to pay with a little micromanagment the hasted use of that fantastic weapon.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,666
    @Jaheiras_Witness the multi using the helm for a clone and GWW can pull of 20 apr at 25 STR, the dual has better buffed thac0, GM and more fighter levels, and end game is a better caster, so can buff himself more often and have more devas, imposions and other powerful spells.
    They are both fun to play and powerful.

  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 160
    Or do something I don't think anyone else has done (except for a very silly person I know quite well irl) and go Gnome F/C!! No bonus to Paralysis/Poison/Death saves, -1 wisdom, and no dwarfy throwing whomper. But you can still FoA and it works quite nicely with a custom farting preacher soundset.

  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 168
    jmerry wrote: »
    The third daily Rage is at Berserker level 9, not level 8.

    It says once every 4 levels, which would make it at 4 and 8. Proficiences are every 3 levels and you get them at 3, 6, etc.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 187
    Not exactly. Rage comes at levels 1, 5, 9, 13, etc. Once every four levels starting at 1st. That's a fairly common pattern; most of the class abilities that get their first use at level 1 use it.

    gorgonzola
Sign In or Register to comment.